2005 Chevrolet Aveo SVM (Special Value Model) from North America - Comments

"So you're telling us all that BMWs, Jaguars and the rest are CHEAP to maintain in Europe, but not in America? And I guess you forgot the part where BMW gave the South Carolina state police an M5, but why would you want to research anything."

I didn't say that European cars were cheap to maintain in Europe. I'm sure they're not cheap to maintain anywhere! I think that (and this is a supposition on my part) owners of European cars here in the U.S. likely pay more for parts and service than those who live in Europe. The fact remains that American cars as a rule are cheaper and easier to service than European cars. As for the BMW's in South Carolina, I must humbly admit that I did not know about that. I found your comment on that intriguing, that is before I was annoyed by your sarcasm. I do research things, but this topic escaped my notice. I investigated it myself and learned about it... they gave SCHP two M5's when they opened their plant in South Carolina. Looking further, I noticed Mercedes did something similar when they opened their plant in Alabama. And European cars were being experimented with in other areas of the U.S. So, I will go on the record here and consider myself corrected. However, I will point out that in my research, I noted that others had pondered the cost issues of these cars as well. I wasn't alone on that. And apparently, BMW leases a few of their cars to law enforcement in South Carolina. I still disagree that it's all about the incentives. That surely plays a role, but law enforcement agencies don't just buy anything.

Now, on to the safety angle. I looked up NHTSA safety ratings on the Crown Victoria, and they're actually not that bad. I tried to look up the same information on the BMW 5 Series, and I couldn't find any NHTSA ratings. I went back several model years. The only thing I did find on the BMW were some European crash ratings. They looked good as well, but they don't directly compare with NHTSA ratings. The safety issue you cited (I'm pretty sure it was you, based on your writing style) a while back about the "unpredictable handling" of the Crown Victoria remains a mystery to me. I researched that intensely, and the safety issue I found concerned fuel tank ruptures in rear end collisions, not handling issues. By the way, the writing style remark I made was not intended as a swipe at you-I think you write very well; I just strongly disagree with you on some issues and I don't care for your sarcasm. And just as I learned something here, I think you could learn something, too.

So, you wonder why American cars don't sell well outside the U.S? I suppose some of it could be due to sour memories of the poor quality of years past, but I strongly suspect it has a lot more to do with the buying habits of people in overseas markets, specifically their taste in automobiles and how suited those cars are to local conditions. Can you think of any time in the past that true American cars have been outrageously popular in foreign markets? I can't. Ford and GM both have overseas branches that build cars targeted specifically at those markets, and that's been the case for more than 40 years. I don't think most Europeans would find a big Buick or a Ford Crown Victoria very appealing, just as there are some cars offered in Europe that would find few buyers here in America. The Merkur XR4Ti and Scorpio (German Fords) sold in the U.S. back in the mid-Eighties sure didn't go over very well.

You're still commenting on the poor quality of interiors in American cars. Did you notice in my previous comment that I agreed, at least partially? GM in particular needs to improve in that area. But progress has been made. They're not as bad as they once were, and they used to be REALLY bad.

I'd like to point out a contradiction you've made in some of your comments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who commented that you'd never buy a German car made in America, and then went on to comment that you don't blame the American work force for building faulty cars, but the companies themselves? That the line workers could only work with what's given to them? One would gather from your comments that you think German cars are wonderfully engineered. But you don't blame the American work force for assembling unreliable cars. Do you see where I'm going with this? You can't have it both ways. Who do you think is at fault in that situation-the German automaker with the supposedly world class engineering or the Americans building it? Or does your argument only apply to American cars? Where do you think those BMW's you're so fond of for police work in the U.S. would come from? Not Germany, when they already build some in the U.S. Again, correct me if I'm wrong-I don't want to attribute something to you that you didn't write-but I'm reasonably certain it was you who made those statements.

I'm also fairly certain you're the one who commented about a friend's Ford Focus (which was designed mostly in Europe) with all of its recalls. Some remark was made that all American cars are like that. That is 100% wrong. And the notion that building inferior cars is an American tradition is also wrong. I'll agree that numerous recalls are unacceptable for any car, but the Ford Focus is not representative of all American cars. I have a 1991 Buick LeSabre. That car has been extremely reliable in spite of its age and high mileage. The nearly identical 1990 LeSabre I owned before it was also a great car. And guess what? Neither one of them have EVER been recalled. These cars are 15-16 years old, and that's more than enough time for any potential recall issues to turn up. Guess what else? They were both made in the U.S.-Flint, Michigan to be exact. Now, on the other hand, are my old Buicks representative of all American cars? Of course not. There are some terrible ones out there. Looking around this site, some Chrysler products come to mind, although they're under German ownership. I can only hope they improve. My grandparents have a Mercury Sable that's had chronic transmission problems from day one. But take another look around this site. European and Japanese automakers make some mistakes, too. Some of the more recent Honda and Toyota reviews haven't been terrific (though many are). Some Volkswagen reviews are overwhelmingly negative. I know, I know, most of them sold in the U.S. aren't assembled in their parent countries. But some of the problems appear to be engineering/design issues. It doesn't bother me that you like foreign cars. I really don't care. I truly do wish you the best of luck with whatever car you own. What I take exception to is your blatant bias, slamming all American cars while ignoring some key facts. You serve up a hearty helping of the same old tired line in almost every comment-that American cars are built to the lowest standards that the automakers can get away with. I've got news for you: not all of them are. Every automaker has produced good and bad cars. I do research. And I keep an open mind.

Regarding to your "misplaced patriotism" comments, I want to ask you something: When the Germans use BMW's as police vehicles, are they exhibiting "misplaced patriotism?" How about when the British use Jaguars? Or when the Japanese use Hondas and Toyotas? What's wrong with America using American cars for police work? Yes, I know some are built in Canada, we've been through that already.

Excuse me, but to say that American cars are built in Canada and Mexico is simply not true... there are some models, yes, and parts yes, but most American cars are made here in the US.

Ever been to Detroit and wonderd what all these plants manufacture?

And the reason why American cars have cheaper interiors is because they have to cut costs somewhere because their unionized workers are costing too much, something that the Japanese plants here in the U. S don't have to deal with.

I see, so your theory is that American manufacturers are forced to build inferior products because of the unions.

There's a great business plan for you.

Sorry, but all research says that what distinguishes cars these days is "touch points" both interior and exterior.

So if any manufacturer is "forced" to build inferior interiors they may as well close up shop since customers will ultimately leave in droves.

I worked at a Chevy dealership as a service advisor for three years until the place went broke. BY FAR the most reliable car we sold was the Aveo. The only time we saw them was for the single recall the car has had for the manifold heat. Other than that, nothing. The owners raved about them. When you consider GM has taken 40% of the North American subcompact market with the Aveo, that is pretty high praise. In fact, just before the dealership closed I used my employee discount to buy one myself. After 25,000 miles it is flawless, way better than junk like the Cobalt and Malibu.

I might also add that alot of how a car treats you is related to how you treat it. Warped brakes are 100% of the time an indication of how owners are driving their cars. The transmission "problems" of the Aveo are related to not completely stopping before shifting to reverse.

First of all, Yes, you COULD buy the Aveo for $6995. They were advertised at that price all over the country.

Secondly, as a mechanic I just about fall off my chair laughing at the "Foreign cars are better" comments. Believe me, Japanese cars are no better, and German cars are much WORSE than anything the U.S. auto makers build.

If you want to pay 5 to 10 grand more for advertising hype go ahead. I'll just keep my extra 5 grand and use it to buy gas for my very well built and reliable AMERICAN car, truck and SUV.

I've owned German, Japanese and American cars. Not one of the American cars ever saw the inside of a dealer service department, and not one of the Japanese or German cars made it to 100,000 miles. 'Nuff said.

So you are telling us all that Consumer Reports, JD Power, Intellichoice, Edmunds and the rest are all LYING since American cars are oh so superior?

Guess that explains why GM, Ford, and Chrysler have such a great marketshare.

You'll have to tell me where all these great American cars are, since I've never owned one that worked properly.

Friend's Ford Focus was in the shop 10 times, had 20 recalls - all within 3 years. The Scion xB was in the shop ONCE for a minor problem and had zero recalls - all within 3 years.

But American cars are better.

No, GM, Chrysler and Ford have such a "market share" because of people such as yourself who buy into the advertising hype and all that other crap that Honda and Toyota pay them very well to say. That's why.

Okay...I last commented on here in January, and I will again direct my comments to you, the individual constantly berating American cars (the author of this review, am I correct?). Here we go. I feel compelled to point something out here. You recently posted this comment:

"So you are telling us all that Consumer Reports, JD Power, Intellichoice, Edmunds and the rest are all LYING since American cars are oh so superior?"

But several months ago, you posted the following (again, I'm 99.9% sure it was you, based on your writing style, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken) :

"Even quality (as defined by JD Power) vehicles such as the discontinued Buick Lesabre are very tacky inside with cheap fittings compared to the Avalon or Accord."

Huh. Another contradiction. I guess what you're saying is that when J.D. Power and all the rest rate a Japanese, European or Korean car highly, they're spot-on, but when they rate an American car highly, they're full of it, correct? Pretty glaring double standard there on your part, don't you think? It amazes me that you're willing to give foreign cars a fair shake, but you think all American cars are junk, regardless of the facts. By the way, several American cars and trucks have made it to the J.D. Power initial quality list for the past several years. Another comment you made:

"You'll have to tell me where all these great American cars are, since I've never owned one that worked properly."

Have you really ever owned an American car? If so, when? Please name one. Most American cars were at one time inferior to some of the better foreign cars in terms of quality and reliability, but that was mostly back in the late Seventies and Eighties. American cars have come a long way since that shameful era. Today's decent quality American cars are ones you'd probably never go for anyway, namely some full-size sedans and some SUV's. The newly redesigned Chevy Tahoe and related GM vehicles, for example, seem to be miles ahead in quality compared to their predecessors. You're still carping about your friend's Ford Focus...again, it's not representative of all American cars, nor is the Scion xB representative of all foreign cars. This example (and others you've made) are anecdotal and you're stubbornly refusing to look at the big picture. Nobody says you have to like American cars. You don't, and I respect that... but I don't respect the blatant trashing of *any* car without any consideration of all the facts.

You seem to have a fixation with the idea that a high quality interior makes a high quality car. That's not necessarily true. There's a lot more to a car than just its interior. There are some European cars with beautiful interiors (Jaguars and BMWs come to mind), but let's be honest here: they're not all completely flawless, are they? Yes, even a few supposedly high quality foreign cars have issues. Just take another look around this website and other sources!

Now here we are, 7 months after I posed the following questions to you and you still haven't answered them: 1). When an American assembled "foreign" car (Toyota, BMW, etc.) turns out to be low quality/unreliable, are the American workers to blame or is the automaker with supposedly world class engineering to blame? 2). When Europeans use their own vehicles for police work, or when the Japanese use their own vehicles for police work, are they exhibiting "misplaced patriotism," as you accuse U.S. law enforcement agencies of doing when they choose American vehicles? With all due respect, when you make glaring contradictions, ignore facts and post goofy comments about "misplaced patriotism," you lose credibility fast and start looking like you have an agenda. Sorry, that's just how I see it.

I just want to add my two cents regarding the Foreign v.s. American vehicles debate.

My family bought a 1999 Honda Civic hatchback new (5spd. manual) (presently the car has approx. 130,000kms), and the only things we've had to replace are a couple of sets of brakes and tires, and the occasional oil change, and maybe one tune up in the seven years we've had it. Still runs like a top. Still drives excellent.

Before that we had a 1984 Honda Accord (manual). Likewise, a couple sets of brakes and tune ups for it's whole life (14 years, till winter 1998). The only things wrong with it were: rust (on trunk, hood, 1/4 panels, roof), a possible exhaust leak, and last, but not least, one cold winter night (-28 Celsius) in December 1998, it just simply died. I'm guessing the mileage was around the 200,000kms mark.

In fall 2005 we bought a rebuilt-status 1999 Toyota Sienna (approx. 140,000kms), (had front-end accident). Other than needing a $800 tune up recently, and the auto trans jolts a bit going from 1st to 2nd gear sometimes, it's been a great van.

The American cars we had in the past 20 years were:

late 80's Plymouth Reliant, late 80's Ford Taurus, 1992 or 1993 Ford Taurus (all company cars, all had from new). The Reliant was okay. The Taurus' (Tauri?) were trouble: had trans., suspension, brake and computer problems, and the Ford dealership was not very good at all.

A 1996 Dodge Caravan we got in 1998 or 1999 with relatively high kms on it (i think under 100,000kms) never had any major problems, except for the air-conditioning failing twice within four years, the crazy/possessed-windshield-wiper problem, the clock-spring/horn problem, power door locks that would only work half the time, and frequent replacement of brakes. Never had any transmission problems, though. It shifts smoother than our 1999 Sienna.

Thanks for your time.

Hi, just reading through this and thought I'd mention this. I'm from England (hate to say europe) and we have many US cars here, hell of a load of chryslers and I myself owned a Chevy Caprice and a Mercury Grand Marquis. I personally find the build quality poor on the interiors of US cars, but the ride and the rest is just ace. I currently drive a 1990 Scorpio and it's a good car, but more exspensive to maintain than a US car I can get brake pads for £15 on a grand mark, but they are £25 for a scorpio.

BMW's and german fords are built nice, but I think Mercedes Benz are cheap and nasty! Poor everything! Basically the US car is cheaper and offers a lot, there is loads of spares about too. I recommend them, but larger engines are being killed by the british government, it's about 90p a liter here now ($1.70 ish). So more efficient german cars are taking a big leap forwards now. Hell of a lot of japanese cars too!

I still favor the US built car as I like a cheap easy drive. But if I had more cash I would probably have a BMW 740i. Really expensive if it goes wrong!

Quote "First of all, Yes, you COULD buy the Aveo for $6995. They were advertised at that price all over the country.

Secondly, as a mechanic I just about fall off my chair laughing at the "Foreign cars are better" comments. Believe me, Japanese cars are no better, and German cars are much WORSE than anything the U.S. auto makers build.

If you want to pay 5 to 10 grand more for advertising hype go ahead. I'll just keep my extra 5 grand and use it to buy gas for my very well built and reliable AMERICAN car, truck and SUV.

I've owned German, Japanese and American cars. Not one of the American cars ever saw the inside of a dealer service department, and not one of the Japanese or German cars made it to 100,000 miles. 'Nuff said."

What German/japanese car did you own that didn't make it to 100,000? that's unheard of! stop driving your foreign cars into things.

German cars are way more durable than american cars, heck the average e30 model 3 series (mid 80's- early 90's) has between 175,000 and 200,000.

We have 3 honda accord winter beaters with 165,000, 145,000 and 201,000 on them, and we beat the living heck out of them and they just keep going.

My BMW's (88 325is, 99 328i) have 95k and 84k on them and I have autocrossed, taken them on trackdays about once a month and gone thru 6 or 7 driving schools with the cars and I havnt had a single problem. That's running these cars at there absoulute limit for long periods of time, and the only work I have to do is replace my clutch more often. the engines are still mint.

You are obviously biased.

Somebody above mentioned "dark ages" for car manufacturers.

People easily point out the dark ages for American, in the 1970's. (ie. Pinto, Vega, etc. etc) and even the 80's.

But people forget to mention Asian car "dark ages".

The 70's Toyotas and especially Hondas, were very susceptable to rust. Sure, their engines were fine (except for occasional blown head gasket), but basically everything about the body wasn't the greatest. Not to mention the Hyundai Pony (Canada) from the mid 80's, as another review put it, "famous for their rust potential".