2007 Ford Fusion SE from North America - All Comments

"We bought a 2006 Fusion SE 4-cylinder for our dog"

Gee, I feel bad. All I got my dog was a Sable. But it has a bench front seat so he can stretch out in front with me. He likes to stick his mouth over the air conditioning vent.

My neighbor bought her dog an Audi Q7. The car she had before that was a Subaru Outback. The air conditioning in the back seat could not keep her dog from being overly hot and panting. Also her 4 year old complained about being hot. Our friend who owns the Subaru dealership says that is the number one complaint and reason for trade-ins on Subarus.

I have heard the older Taurus/Sable station wagons were big favorites for people who took their dogs to dog shows. Good air in the back and room for dog crates.

11:37:

Your post is all cherry picked results. If you examine the overall averaged totals for GM, they rank below average. Moreover, you neither backed your claim that Japanese cars were surpassed years ago (you only talk current models and do no averaging at that) nor that its "all ad hype and myth". Neither claim is backed by a shred of evidence.

Go to JD Powers' site. Average GM's scores. Present them. Prove me wrong. Show some similar averages from recent years to further prove your point... no? Didn't think so. I've posted the results on other threads and get nothing but crickets responding. Data is so dry!!

You want to back the idea that "it's all ad hype and myth" on the authority of your supposed credentials? You say you're a therapist and that if I post that you lack sources, I'm responding to said hype? If so, you are acting outside of your professional bounds. Long distance analysis of a stranger from what they post on a blog is meritless. My brother-in-law is a psychologist -- I know a little about the profession.

So, to conclude, you wrote "Not only that, but both GM and Ford long ago matched or surpassed the build quality of vehicles made by Japanese or German companies."

YOU are the one who made the broad-brush claim that suggests a better average. When I brought up the fact that you have no sources, you responded by picking out some rather superior examples and treating them as some sort of average... they are not even close. Show me the average scores of GM and Chrysler in particular (Ford is another story--they're a step above the others in nearly every survey) and prove how they are superior. You can't make a claim that GMs are better and have been for years and then think that anything but a corporate average can prove you right.

I wrote "There isn't ONE reputable source to back up that claim".

There isn't...or at least I'm still waiting for one.

Ad Hype? Myth? Who's quoting ads? The "myths" are based on surveys (some of the same ones that you picked individual results from) and personal experiences. Ford had ads touting their quality. Why didn't THEY work? Only the Japanese propaganda does? Why? Hey maybe it's 'cause lots of folks have had good experiences to back up the ads. It's obvious that the claim that Japanese vehicles' reliability is a conjured up scheme is a baseless idea in itself, pulled from prejudice rather than facts.

"If everyone did this, we'd have no recession and extremely low unemployment.

...and apparently no bank failures, energy crisis or housing crisis either."

This is probably very true. Why are people losing their homes? Because they aren't making enough money to pay their mortgages. And why is that? In many cases because their companies have cut back due to foreign companies taking away their business. Banks are failing because people can't work and pay their bills.

It is amazing to me that American citizens are so complacent about the effects of sending our money to other countries. Americans are downright hostile to anyone who dares to suggest buying American. That is absolutely ludicrous. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!! One out of every TEN jobs in the U.S. is auto-related, and only 9% of that is Japanese. Those who bash domestic cars and people who are patriotic enough to buy them have done irreparable harm to the 91% of their fellow citizens' jobs.

As for an "energy crisis", at present that is solved. Not even those Americans who turned their backs on U.S. industry and bought Toyotas and Hondas can afford to drive them now.

"We bought a 2006 Fusion SE 4-cylinder for our dog.

???

Yeah, but does he have a driver's license?"

It's a SHE and she is very generous in letting me drive for her. She is prone to road rage if she sees a cat and I don't want her chasing one across someone's yard in the Fusion.

We bought her the Fusion to replace her 2001 Pontiac because she was embarrassed by the newer cars other dogs were showing up at the park in. Now she is less self-conscious, although she is mad that this one doesn't have a sun roof. What she really wants is a vintage Mustang convertible.

Yes, and my dog wants a Porsche, but my wife won't let me... I mean won't let him, have one.

09:46.

("Not only that, but both GM and Ford long ago matched or surpassed the build quality of vehicles made by Japanese or German companies."

There isn't ONE reputable source to back up that claim.)

Consumer Reports, maybe? It's not for both GM and Ford. Only Ford. And it's not long ago either. It's the Fusion that achieved only 3 years ago.

"they aren't making enough money to pay their mortgages. And why is that? In many cases because their companies have cut back due to foreign companies taking away their business. Banks are failing because people can't work and pay their bills."

It is fairly well documented that the reasons for the mortgage crisis and the associated bank failures were that many of the mortgages should never have been written and underwritten in the first place + higher energy prices. Energy prices drove up costs to those who were too close to the margin, who had too much mortgage for their incomes. People will usually give up shelter before food... thus the foreclosure spike. Enough banks were invested in real estate to cause real hurt when values began to fall.

All of this has been hashed over at length in business publications. While your points are valid, they probably don't represent the PRIMARY movers behind this particular recession. Otherwise I mostly agree and have been trying to buy American for several years now.

Oh, come on, give the poor dog a Porsche!! Just be sure to wrap his leash around the emergency brake so he won't jump out when he sees a cat!!

"Ad Hype? Myth? Who's quoting ads? The "myths" are based on surveys (some of the same ones that you picked individual results from) and personal experiences. Ford had ads touting their quality. Why didn't THEY work?"

In the 90's Toyota started running a series of ads for the Camry that showed a broken down Taurus being towed in the background in every ad. I'm sure your psychologist relative is just as familiar with the effects of subliminal cues as I am. It was no coincidence that after these ads were run people somehow started "remembering" seeing broken down Fords everywhere. Ironically, they could never remember WHERE or WHEN. In 30 years of driving I've seen exactly ONE Taurus broken down on the side of the road. It was very old and probably had 400,000 miles on it. The only cars that have ever left me or my wife stranded on the road were both Toyotas.

In addition, there is no RELIABLE source to truly prove reliability other than frequency of repair records, and Japanese car companies are not about to release those. Virtually every magazine and rating service in the U.S. is heavily biased toward anything not made by American companies and any time one of them DOES praise an American car it HAS to be far better than they admit. For some reason that I have never been able to fathom, ANYTHING American is considered inferior by Americans. This is sad, because it is currently destroying the lives of millions of our fellow citizens.

I've owned and worked on Japanese and American cars. The structural components of the Japanese cars are horribly under-engineered. Brakes are smaller, axle shafts are smaller and frame components are smaller (and NO, they are NOT magically STRONGER because they are Japanese metal!)

Our Japanese cars required brake pads twice to three times as often as our domestics. The bodies were flimsier and the interiors not nearly as durable. Japanese cars have for decades been shown to be less safe in crashes than comparable domestics. One of our dear friends was killed when the "crumple zones" in her Acura crumpled all the way back into the passenger compartment and crumpled HER. The Ford she hit was DRIVEN HOME.

If people choose to believe any well-ingrained myth it is virtually impossible to persuade them to see the truth with any number of facts or examples. If people choose to follow the subliminally embedded information in Japanese car ads, no amount of facts will ever change them. At least the German car companies are honest. The basic message of BMW and Mercedes ads is simply "We cost a lot and if you buy us people will think you're important".

15:47.

The claim was that this was "long ago" and that it was both Ford AND GM. I would have no problem with the claim that Ford has reached at least parity with Honda and Toyota recently. GM has some great cars, but taken as a total, their average is still sub-par. The change for Ford is also recent not "long ago". "Consumer Reports" documents some of these changes. JD Power does as well.

The Fusion is a VERY good car. It has proven to be at least equal or better in reliability than its Japanese rivals. But the statement can only be proven by a corporate average not by several good cars made by a certain manufacturer. I just think that a broad statement like "Not only that, but both GM and Ford long ago matched or surpassed the build quality of vehicles made by Japanese or German companies" deserves an accurate response. There is no one who rates these corporations' average reliability that agrees with it... at least none that has been quoted.

Do they build some superior vehicles? Absolutely. But the statement was general, inferring that American vehicles are better across the board and have been for a long time. This is simply insupportable hyperbole.

"Do they build some superior vehicles? Absolutely. But the statement was general, inferring that American vehicles are better across the board and have been for a long time. This is simply insupportable hyperbole."

Personal experience trumps possibly biased general "surveys" (and definitely biased magazine writers) hands down. We are a multi-car family and generally own 3 to 5 cars at any given time. Over the past 37 years we have owned over 30 domestics from all three of the U.S. auto makers and 3 imports. Not a one of the domestics ever required a repair before 100,000 miles and a number of them were driven well beyond 200,000 miles. None, NOT ONE, ever had an engine or transmission replaced or had any major repairs.

On the flip side, our imports were poorly made, unreliable, much more expensive to repair and NOT ONE made it to 100,000 miles without major repairs (including the "god" of imports, Honda, which was scrapped at 99,000 miles). Sorry, but ad hype will never convince me that imports were EVER superior to domestics. 30+ good domestics and 3 totally unreliable imports is enough proof for me. Do the math. What are the odds of just randomly buying 30 domestic vehicles that ALL happened to be exemplary and above the norm, while all three imports just happened to be the "rare" unreliable ones?

"Do the math. What are the odds of just randomly buying 30 domestic vehicles that ALL happened to be exemplary and above the norm, while all three imports just happened to be the "rare" unreliable ones?"

I've done the math on all of your ownership and mileage claims here and elsewhere; they don't add up. However, if in fact you have had such good luck with your Domestics, that is the only compelling part of your commentary -- for those who know you. 30 good 0 bad is a good record. 3 bad imports? That isn't compelling. That COULD have been a fluke.

But lets say you are right for now; that 1 person's experience trumps that of the "biased" 1000 of a survey. That means that I should never buy another domestic because I've had more trouble with them than imports I've owned. I've maintained them well and exactly the same. Yet I think that my experience is too narrow and think that domestics can indeed be a good choice. Your approach is unreasonably myopic.

It's true; personal experience is the most compelling aspect of our own decision making. But you are trying to say that your experience is universal, more valuable than surveys, and convincing proof that even us strangers, who haven't likewise had such good luck as you, should heed. Why? We don't know you. So I'd much rather read a "possibly biased survey" than a definitely biased individual.

The truth is obvious. You are completely unable to support any of the claims you made in the first post I began responding to. For example:

"Not only that, but both GM and Ford long ago matched or surpassed the build quality of vehicles made by Japanese or German companies." Now we get to know that the authority behind this general statement is simply your experience. Why can't you confine your comments to your experiences with vehicles that you own or have owned? There's no need to tell everyone else what to buy. They can make up their own minds using theirs, yours, and others' experiences to help guide them.

Tell us about your Fusion. Tell us about your Mustang. Tell us about your Envoy. Etc. I don't, however, want to be told what to think about the info.

As for your claims about "subliminal messages"; No I don't remember those ads, nor for that matter, do I remember seeing any Tauruses on the side of the road (I'm sure I've seen a few considering how many were sold). But all the stuff purporting that "quality is job 1" didn't work? Ads are DESIGNED to be compelling, but YOUR claim is that the Japanese ads worked and the American ads didn't because the Japanese ones were were "subliminal". What about the seriously front-brained message shown when the Ford emblem is being polished? I liked it. I even thought it was compelling. But that MUST NOT have worked because the Japanese are selling so many cars. Hmmm. Backward logic.

Subliminal messages are of dubious value anyway according to everything I've heard or read of late. Relying on THAT for an explanation is much like explaining gold with alchemy.

"Subliminal messages are of dubious value anyway according to everything I've heard or read of late. Relying on THAT for an explanation is much like explaining gold with alchemy."

NEGATIVE subliminal messages are VERY powerful. They play upon fear, which is one of the strongest emotions human beings have. The fact that you DON'T remember the Toyota ads using broken down Tauruses in the background further proves my point. The ADs are meant to be forgotten. The MESSAGE (a broken down Ford Taurus) IS meant to be remembered on a subconscious level. It worked all too well. These ads were run on TV and in still picture magazine ads. The car being towed showed no badging, but was clearly a Ford Taurus. Although not literally "subliminal" (which means not perceived at the conscious level) the ads instilled in viewers the idea that the Taurus was unreliable. Even people who didn't know what a Taurus looked like would later make the association when they saw one. "Job 1" and the polishing of the blue oval were fluff. They carried no message anyone would really associate with any other car, and certainly nothing negative about another brand of car.

As for surveys being accurate, NO WAY. People who are loath to admit they got taken will always report favorably on an expensive purchase to save face, and will even convince THEMSELVES the product is better in spite of direct evidence to the contrary. One of our friends paid a ludicrous price for an Italian sports car some years ago. It began falling apart at 40,000 miles and he was told BY THE DEALER at 63,000 miles that "These cars aren't designed to last long, it's just worn out". In the meantime his wife was driving to a university in a city 60 miles away EVERY WEEKDAY in a 1967 Plymouth with well over 200,000 miles on it. My friend would NEVER have admitted that the lowly slant-6 Plymouth was a better car, but it was.

My experience with imports goes well beyond simple driving impressions and mechanical problems. I'm a mechanic and actually WORKED on these cars. Just looking at the very under-engineered frame components, structural members and braking systems on our Honda and Mazda and on relatives Nissans and Toyotas was more than enough to PROVE to me that the Japanese use under-sized and under-engineered components. I didn't require a survey for that. The Mazda was built in Japan before Ford took over and upped the build quality dramatically. It was one of the most poorly built cars I've ever seen, with rattles from one end to the other. On the flip side, our Fusion, which is based on the Mazda 6 AFTER Ford took over is one of the most solid, well-built cars I've driven.

Myths are hard to lay to rest. Once the human mind has been indoctrinated with ANY myth it takes on a life of its own. The truly sad part of the "everything made by U.S. workers is crap" myth is that our citizens follow the myths to the extent that our very economy is in jeopardy as a result. We are cutting our own throats and being led to our own demise through ad hype.

12:55.

I see... EVERYTHING is evidence that you are right. If I DID remember, it would be proof. If I didn't... gosh it COULDN'T just be because I didn't see it or just misplaced it in my memory... it MUST be because I saw it and it worked really, really good. THAT WAY YOU CAN BE RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT! This is particularly funny because I think that Tauruses are pretty good cars. Fusions are even better.

Your last post carried no proofs. You simply reasserted your position. Then you went about discrediting anyone who might disagree based on a scenario that is a total fabrication of possible but unproven points. I could likewise claim that YOU are a victim of ads that you don't remember. That your preoccupation with domestic cars is strictly based on prejudice... not facts. I COULD say that I'm a mechanic. I COULD claim to be a therapist. Heck I could claim to be anything at all in an effort to further my point.

BUT IT WOULD BE UNFAIR. IT WOULD ALSO BE UNTRUE. Perhaps I'm breaking the seminal rule of blogging... the truth puts me at a disadvantage. My claims aren't mathematically impossible (or at least unlikely). They aren't inconsistent. They aren't positioned like a pundit's would be. I don't take a hard position and I am perfectly willing to admit my human tendency toward inaccuracy. BUT I NEED PROOF.

You say that I'm a victim of ad hype? Prove it.

You say that the surveys are flawed simply because there is a possible mechanism for such a thing. Prove it.

You suggest that I think that anything American workers make is crap. You'll have a really tough time proving that one. I own two American vehicles right now and wouldn't buy from the Japanese because American manufacturing needs customers.

I DO think that the Japanese EARNED their reputation the old fashioned way. Until you are able to prove otherwise, no amount of pseudopsychological conjecture will save your point.

The truth remains that you haven't presented us with anything outside of your own experience to back up your claims about Ford and GM long ago surpassing the imports. Ford is doing very well (a recent thing). GM still has a ways to go. This is based on surveys taken in various manners, by different organizations. My own experience furthers the data. BUT I WILL STILL ONLY BUY AMERICAN.

Finally, you will no doubt be thrilled to hear that I will no longer argue with you. I've thoroughly repudiated all of your points on other threads only to see you resurrect them elsewhere. There is no point. You are busily destroying this site's value. For you and others this is all about rhetoric, not information. If someone posts some information about their Japanese vehicle, you either do an "I told you so" or a "mine is better" response. You and others sit on here repeating the same old worn out canards. You don't prove your points; You simply repeat them. So I suspect that many will do (and have done) what I now choose to do and leave you to yourself.

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steven@carsurvey.org

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Could the two previous commenters please take a deep breath and calm down a little.

Things are getting too personal here, especially since I suspect you agree on many things (like buying American).

Discussion is fine, but this is in the end an Internet forum, where unless I enforce very strict editorial control, there are going to be people and arguments that you disagree with, or just plain think are misinformed.

If you make your point and you end up in an argument with what seems to be the same few people, it's probably the case that the best thing you can do is move on, having said your piece (once or twice is probably enough). Likewise if you start to take a personal dislike to other commenters. Far more heat is likely being generated than light in those cases. The long comment threads only happen when there are willing participants on both sides.

The above isn't a set of rules that I'm setting down, just some advice to perhaps make the experience of using the site more pleasant.

Steven Jackson

steven@carsurvey.org