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Comments: 1-15, 16-22
And the Mustang is much faster than the Camry.
On a nice summer night you have 2 choices. Driving a non descript 2007 Camry hardtop sedan or a 2007 Mustang Shelby Convertible with the top down... 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds. And as soon as the warranty is up, you are open for endless upgrades. Not just another bland sedan out on the road.
Why would you compare a 2007 Camry to a 2007 Shelby Cobra??? That is illogical. If anything you should be comparing the Cobra to the new Skyline coming out.
I guess since the fusion is not even in the Camry's league you have to find a Ford car that is worth about 25K more.
14:28 read 8:06...a Camry owner initiated the Mustang comments prior to the follow up. By the way I have personally seen individuals that also drive very bland used inexpensive econo vehicles instead of driving their prized new expensive convertible sports cars to shopping centers, train stations, stadiums etc where I live. The intention is to lessen the chances of theft, vandalism and having your car doors banged up. On long trips however the nicer car comes out.
19:52 Your comparison is kind of senseless. If you want to compare sports cars, then compare sportscars. If you want to compare family cars, then do so. As far as sports cars go, I'd take a Supra twin turbo over any Mustang without even giving it a thought. The Supra will eat it for breakfast. Try following one in your Mustang, or any Mustang for that matter. You'll lose control in the bends and crash while seeing nothing, but the Supra's tail lights, if you see it at all. Now, as far as family cars go, Ford doesn't and never has made anything that can compare to a Camry. For that matter, I have a friend that owns a 5.0 1989 Mustang that he thinks is a sportscar. That thing is COMPLETELY useless unless you're going in a straight line on flat ground. The handling is... well, there isn't really any handling. It's downright dangerous to drive. Actually, it doesn't even do that well in a straight line, as it just sits there and spins, having no connection to the road at all. A Supra with four flat tires would handle better. The new Mustangs are better, but still not in the same league as a car that Toyota make 20 years ago.
I agree I like the twin turbo Supra. I hope Toyota brings out the 2008 Concept and it becomes reality. But this about basic transportation not like Mustang GT's which are a true musclecar bargains. There are endless mods available. Do your homework and find out how much the twin turbo Supra sold for. Sorry a Camry with the pipe and rims isn't the direction I would go for.
In America gas prices are still within reason compared too many parts of the world. Thus the larger vehicles that many prefer to drive here. Hybrids are actually expensive to recoup the savings on fuel and sales are dropping according to the latest report I read.
Gasoline "game" is in its embryo state as of now!
Legislators are trying to save us mortals from paying what Europe and other regions are paying...
It is an American mentality - "I want to do what I want to do".
Had we had engine taxation or emissions as strict as in Japan, I don't think a lot of people would have wanted to drive "big blocks" and such!!!
Cheers!
With $40 a barrel profit a barrel no one seems to complain unless they see a large SUV or a domestic V8. I feel that the misdirected anger should be directed at the oil companies that are able to get away with this. People work hard & buy what they can afford... if you live in a rural area, fuel is less; if you are on the interstate or a major city, the price goes up. Its about extracting as much as the market can bear without government intervention. I still would rather own a comfortable domestic full size vehicle rather than be forced into a tiny uncomfortable econo box. I see sales directly affected by the economy & gas pricing; not what people would actually prefer owning. My driving preference has not changed--I drive a bit less. It was also nice to see the refineries reinvesting their enormous profits into environmental upgrades and more pollution controls to invest in our future. But plant shutdowns with high fuel profitability means loss of revenues. But it seems that all you read is about end users import/domestic favoritism and strictly what they own; not the real culprit in my opinion. People are not giving up driving...yet...just more tiny vehicles. Maybe more will become wiser in time. I am also not looking forward to high fuel oil expenses this winter in my home. But arguing over imports and domestics must make a lot of people feel better I guess.
I couldn't agree more that Americans are very much spoiled by lower gas prices than the rest of the world. Many of my friends support much higher gas prices as a means to encourage people to drive smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Unfortunately, such an argument is a two-edged sword. Yes, it would encourage middle income people to buy smaller vehicles. The problem is that so many Americans live very far from their places of employment. Higher fuel prices would be disastrous for poor families on small incomes, many of whom do not have the option of living nearer to work. It's easy for those of us with decent incomes to buy $5 a gallon fuel, but for a working single mother who has to drive 40 miles to work it is impossible.
Off Topic: about fuel.
I had to chime in. I grew up in Germany and live since 20 years in the US. The US have been lucky enough to have lots of oil gushing out of the ground. Therefore, the States are used to cheap and plenty gasoline. Europe on the other hand never had enough oil to supply its own demand. Therefore, Europe installed policies to make better use of the stuff they import.
Diesel is much more efficient than gasoline. Europe put a lower tax on diesel than on gasoline. Trucks, taxis and other high mileage per year vehicles are usually driven by the more efficient diesels. The higher cost of purchase pays off in lower fuel bills.
The typical personal car had a gasoline engine. Only recently have diesels became the top choice. Again tax policies helped along: Despite the known particulate problems of diesels, they were classified as environmentally "clean" in Germany and are taxed at a lower rate, similar to that of cars with regulated catalytic converters. (Don't mind errors in detail, the big picture counts here).
The US is now talking about ethanol as a fuel to reduce dependency on foreign oil. What nonsense. It takes 1 barrel oil equivalent to find 6 to 10 barrels of oil. It takes 1 barrel of oil equivalent to produce 1 to 1.4 barrels of oil equivalent in ethanol. So all they do is converting oil into ethanol without gaining any meaningful energy. However, food prices are sky rocketing because the feed grains are converted to ethanol. That truly hurts low income households.
I think US needs to wake up, realize that the days of oil-independence are over and apply tax policies that Europe has applied all along: reward fuel efficient technology and discourage fuel wasting technology in transportation and anywhere else. Who knows, the States might just become oil independent again.
First of all, for those crowing about the Fusion because they think that's it is the all apple pie American car that was built to beat the Camry, that's about as far as you can get from the truth. The car was designed by Ford of Europe, utilizing a stretched Mazda 6 platform, and a variant of a Mazda engine. The engine itself uses a crank forged in India. The car is assembled in Mexico using Mexican, European, and Chinese parts with a few domestic parts thrown in for good measure.
As for the Fusion itself, the car is so new that there's no real way to determine if it is in fact 'better' than the Camry simply because the cars are too new to have experienced long-term reliability notoriety. The Taurus was hailed by the automotive press as a breakthrough yet we all saw how crappy they were once the cars got close to the 100k mark, if they even made it that far, and blew their head gaskets. Time will tell.
If you're cheering about helping the US economy, then you're really only helping a select handful of upper execs, and not the everyday middlemen who might have had a hand in producing the Fusion had it been determined that US assembly would have been ideal. That's the real irony here is that while many of you domestic fans are all about patriotism, US car manufactures don't really care about making cars in this country. If they can make it cheaper in another country, they will. Remember - they are the ones losing money. To make cars cheaper is their only way to survive. I would not be surprised if in the next 5-10 years, the surviving US car manufactures export most of the manufacturing to China.
On the other hand, my mom's Avalon is made in KY with 60% domestic content. My truck, a Tacoma, is made in Fremont, CA with 55% domestic content. All in all, more US workers put the cars that my family drives together. If you're looking for ways to deride imports simply because of where they're made, then perhaps you should look to the very companies that you are so animate about defending.
23:27 I don't care how the Fusion 'scores'. I care about how cars hold up in the long run. Since you seem to like to read all of those ratings, take a look at 'used cars to avoid', and such categories that show how a certain car performs in the long run, according to people who have owned them. Ford scores VERY badly in every single year of the last 20 at least. It's the imports that have shown to hold up in the long run, led by Honda and Toyota. The Fusion won't stack up just like every other Ford car ever produced can't stack up.
I also care very much about how cars hold up in the long run. That's why I got rid of my last import in 1999 and have driven only Fords and GMs since.
"I care about how cars hold up in the long run. Since you seem to like to read all of those ratings, take a look at 'used cars to avoid', and such categories that show how a certain car performs in the long run, according to people who have owned them."
So you must avoid used Toyotas because of the engine sludging problems, Hondas because of the transmission problems, and Lexus because of the transmission problems. You are right -- domestics apparently hold up much better!