2008 Honda Accord LX 4-door from North America - All Comments

13th Dec 2008, 01:10.

"Also, J.D. Powers is very biased in its reviews and "encourages" consumers to buy American. Ford is crap and so is J.D. Powers. Of course they would uphold a domestic brand over a foreign one."

I guess you felt that J.D. Powers was also "crap" when they were recommending Japanese cars a few years ago? Or did you think they were not biased for recommending Japanese cars?

"I would far rather drive a Honda/Nissan/Toyota than a Ford/GM. My repair bills and years of ownership speak for themselves, along with relatives who have owned foreign over domestic vehicles with not a single dissatisfied owner."

I can say the same thing for my low or lack of repair bills for domestics. My family has always bought used Dodges, Plymouths, a couple of Chevies, and more recently Fords, and have driven them all past 200,000 miles with no to minimal repairs. My positive experience with American cars also speaks for itself.

"My cousin and his wife have a 1994 Honda Accord LX bought brand new (January 1994). They also have a Nissan Armada and 2008 Infiniti G35. They STILL drive the Honda with 253,000+ miles. I asked him, he said all he has done in almost 15 years is change the timing belt, water pump, oil, occasional battery, alternator, alignment and tires. The car runs good."

That's great. And my 1985 Dodge with over 260,000 miles is STILL on the road. 10 years older than your Honda, but with no more repairs than yours. I keep waiting for an answer to the question of why Japanese cars are so much better that I'm supposed to rush out and buy one. Nobody can seem to offer anything except the tired-out mantra of "they're better because I say so."

"Actually, no. I was gratified by the privilege of buying a Nissan Maxima in 1987, new. I knew better than to buy a domestic in the 80's. Owned the car for 21 years with few problems and decided then to turn my back on domestic vehicles. Buying a GMC Sonoma in 1996 confirmed the reasoning for my decision I have yet to come to regret."

Wow, I never would have considered that driving a 1987 Nissan Maxima for 21 years would be a privilege. More like penance, I would say.

There were plenty of good cars in the 1980s. For instance, the Dodge Ram, the Plymouth Reliant, the Pontiac 6000, the last of the Plymouth Volares, the Chevy vans. My family owned them all and they were good, reliable cars. I remember the Maxima of the late 1980s and was not impressed. The Chevy Cavalier wasn't that great and gave us more trouble than our previous Dodges, but it got good mileage and lasted to over 200,000 miles. I think you had bad luck buying the low-end GMC Sonoma, which was just a slapped together Chevy S-10 with a bigger price tag.

I hardly regard DOMESTIC car buyers as "ignorant of what they're buying". I have not seen even ONE domestic owner make comments about "4 CYCLE" engines, maintain that lack of competition makes cars more reliable, or maintaining that Ford and GM are not American-owned companies. Do some research before posting unfounded comments... PLEASE!!

I just LOVE seeing these comments about "high repair costs" for domestics. Since 1988 my TOTAL repair costs for our domestics has been exactly ZERO. Just how are you supposed to beat THAT???

"I keep waiting for an answer to the question of why Japanese cars are so much better that I'm supposed to rush out and buy one. Nobody can seem to offer anything except the tired-out mantra of "they're better because I say so."

I'm afraid that's all the answer you'll EVER get to that question. My family has owned Japanese and German imports as well as domestics. The domestics were clearly and indisputably better, more reliable vehicles and a better overall value. I see no advantage to imports.

"That's great. And my 1985 Dodge with over 260,000 miles is STILL on the road. 10 years older than your Honda, but with no more repairs than yours."

Repairs such as a timing belt (changed preventively) and alignment, tires, oil changes are necessary repairs. As much as he wishes domestics are perfect, they are not by any stretch of the imagination.

"I remember the Maxima of the late 1980s and was not impressed."

By being a domestic car buyer I wouldn't expect otherwise of you. Likewise, I felt the same way about EACH of the cars you listed. None of them impressed me at all. NONE. I made what turned out to be a positive, long-term investment I regretted not once.

"I think you had bad luck buying the low-end GMC Sonoma, which was just a slapped together Chevy S-10 with a bigger price tag."

Actually if domestics were so great it wouldn't have mattered which trim level I purchased. As it turns out all of them were crap, even my top-of-the line SLE. This justifies my point that domestics are crap and by your response, you seem to agree.

One minute domestics are the greatest, the next they're crap; you need to develop a position and stick with it, you're confused.

"I hardly regard DOMESTIC car buyers as "ignorant of what they're buying"."

Let me restate this position. Many domestic car buyers are ignorant of what they are buying. Just a few examples:

Ford Escort = Mazda Protege

Ford Fusion = Mazda 6

Ford Five Hundred = Volvo S80

Ford Ranger = Mazda B series

Mercury Villager = Nissan Quest

Chevy Colorado = Isuzu Hombre/I-Series.

These cars each have the underpinnings of a foreign vehicle. However, most consumers are ignorant of this fact, therefore justifying my opinion.

02:33 again states not only incorrect information, but has the audacity to infer that DOMESTIC buyers are ignorant.

First of all, Mazda is owned by Ford. A Mazda IS a Ford.

The Ranger is NOT a rebadged Mazda, the Mazda (since 1992) is a rebadged RANGER (including the engine and drive train, that's why they are now much more reliable vehicles).

Volvo is a FORD product as well. Ford owns Volvo.

The Mercury Villager WAS based on the Nissan Quest. That is why it was a flop and is no longer made.

The Isuzus use GM platforms, not the other way around. The Isuzu Ascender is a Trailblazer/Envoy, and the Hombre is a rebadged Colorado/Canyon.

"15th Dec 2008, 02:26.

You need to develop a position and stick with it."

You mean such as donning the Pro-Import Blinders and chanting "Toyota is better"? That is called being close-minded. I guess that's the only way to pretend that spending $600 on changing a timing belt at 60,000 miles is somehow superior to replacing a timing chain at 200,000 miles. Oh no, that's not a "repair"... it's "merely" preventive maintenance.

So, you were disappointed with one vehicle made a dozen years ago, and since then, "all domestics are crap." Well, you only are hurting yourself by missing out on better vehicles. Go ahead and keeping telling yourself that Japanese is better. You only punish yourself.

"I keep waiting for an answer to the question of why Japanese cars are so much better that I'm supposed to rush out and buy one. Nobody can seem to offer anything except the tired-out mantra of "they're better because I say so."

I have loads of answers for you. First of all, open the hood. Look around. On a domestic car, you'll notice plenty of weld splatter on the frame. I know because I pay close attention to detail. I've looked under the hood of even the top-of-the-line Corvette and found welding splatter.

Secondly, look at the machining and tooling of the engine parts, particularly the aluminum block. I've rented several new GM cars on trips. The castings are done so using a Styrofoam process... and the castings have a Styrofoam texture. Nothing says "quality" like engine parts that look like chunks of Styrofoam.

Next look at the layout of the wires and hoses. On Domestic vehicles you'll often find the hoses and wires snaked haphazardly across the engine, back and forth. Next look under the wheel wells of a domestic car that's at least a year old. Notice the rust? Yes. The domestic vehicles I've seen have scant amounts of paint on the frame. I've even seen rust on brand new domestic car frames at the dealership.

Now do all of those things on a Japanese brand car. For one, you'll find zero weld splatter. Even on my $9,000 Tacoma, the welding is near-perfect.

Next look at the quality of the engine components. Excellent tooling and machining. No shortcuts here.

Also notice that most of the bolts are anodized versus cheap black painted like on GM and Fords.

Now look at the layout of the hoses/wiring. See how neat it is? They do that so you can get to things easily.

Lastly, look at the frames of an older Japanese car. No rust. Nope, because there's enough paint in the first place.

The bottom line is that the proof is in the details, care, and execution, and as someone who's very perceptive, there is no comparison. Japanese cars are simply engineered by people with a higher degree of care and understanding. I can't say the same for US cars... that is unless they're simply a re-badged Ford or GM product.

"Wow, I never would have considered that driving a 1987 Nissan Maxima for 21 years would be a privilege. More like penance, I would say."

Let me reiterate: Owning the Maxima was a privilege, owning the Sonoma was unfortunately penance. Please read the statements for what they are, not what you wish them to be.

I have no idea what domestics 17:46 has been looking at. Obviously some from the late 40's or early 50's. Definitely not anything newer.

I really had a good laugh over the rust comment. I had a friend several years ago who owned a dealership that sold both Nissans and Dodges. He advised his friends to purchase the Dodges. The reason? The Japanese cars had virtually NO rust proofing and would be a pile of rust in a few years.

"You mean such as donning the Pro-Import Blinders and chanting "Toyota is better"? That is called being close-minded."

I guess we have been equally close-minded. You as well have spoken that "Ford is better." Do you not think that is being close-minded?

Yes, I imagine that domestics are cheaper to repair somewhat. However, with my Nissan, repair costs (that were rare) were only slightly more expensive than my domestic vehicle. Toyota has the highest maintenance costs for Japanese vehicles.

One of the biggest reasons I haven't driven domestics as of late is because the resale value pitfall. We had a Chevy TrailBlazer back in 2002, the vehicle was decent as far as performance was concerned but the note outlasted the warranty and decided to trade it for a Honda Accord in 2004. We have paid the Accord off and have not had ANY repairs. I am in the market for another car now and MAY consider a domestic but I am not sure. I need to see an incentive to spend money on a brand that may not survive. Maybe I will consider that you have said while shopping.

"I guess that's the only way to pretend that spending $600 on changing a timing belt at 60,000 miles is somehow superior to replacing a timing chain at 200,000 miles."

Speaking of a timing belt, the service manual for my GMC recommended it was changed at 60K, it broke at 59K and cost me $669 to repair. The Maxima (at 90K) I had a timing belt changed on it for $450.

"Oh no, that's not a "repair"... it's "merely" preventive maintenance."

It's preventive maintenance when you change it before the part is damaged or faulty. If a service guide says 60K miles to change a part does not mean driving beyond that will cause damage just that there is a higher possibility of a costly repair driving beyond that mileage. That's with ANY vehicle, certain things are suggested at certain intervals to maintain a car in good condition. You speak as though no service is recommended at all and that is not true.

I took my usual afternoon break today to read my paper and run a few errands. The headline on my newspaper referred to the delay of a new Toyota plant in Mississippi due to Toyota's plunging sales. Ironically, the plant was to build the Prius, which most import fans seem to think is some magical device that will save the world. The article noted that Prius sales are down by 48%. That is 18% WORSE than Ford sales. Of course part of the decline is due to the economy, but I'm sure a great part is due to the numerous issues Prius has had with extremely expensive repairs.

After reading my paper, I had to drop by our GM dealership to pick up a part for my 8-year-old GM car. It was the FIRST repair ever for the car and cost me a whopping $10. While there I asked a friend who works there how they were doing. His reply shocked me. He said "we only sold 14 new vehicles yesterday, but on Saturday we had FIFTY-ONE new GM vehicles sold." This is in a small city of only about 40,000 people. We are notably more patriotic than some other parts of the country, but 51 sales in ONE DAY is incredible for a company facing bankruptcy.