John M. Poythress
15 Glenwood Road
Louisville, KY 40222.
March 28, 2002.
Mr. Mark C. McNabb,
Vice President
General Manager, Infiniti Division
P. O. Box 191
Gardena, CA 90248.
Re: VIN JNKNG01DXTM.
Dear Mr. McNabb:
I am answering your letter of January 21, 2002 for several reasons. I suppose the principle reason is that via customer survey "you asked." Secondly, I am getting nowhere with my Q-45 problem of 2 and one half years. And third, my "check engine" light appeared again today.
May I state upfront that this is a product problem, not a service problem. Sam Swope Infiniti is well represented by Service Manager Michael Brown who is a professional in every way and a delight to do business with.
This is a product problem of two demensions, the first seemingly unfixable and the second a matter of reasonable operating costs.
Seemingly Unfixable.
After, say 300 miles or so of constant freeway driving speeds, a harsh grinding noise appears in the front left suspension area. I speculate that the problem may be heat expansion driven inasmuch as normal around town driving never produces the problem. A rasping, grinding metal on metal sound happens in various degrees of loudness on "undulating" and normal freeway bumps; i. e. that part of the "cycle" in a vehicle's bump trajectory when the chassis wants to keep "going up" and the suspension wants to "stay down", the result being the "grind" when they separate and when they rejoin. (a "bushing" worn out?, a bearing worn out?)
My copies of Swope Infiniti service records show that this yet unfixed problem was reported as follows:
Date Mileage.
09/09/99 56,902
01/08/00 65,425
04/12/00 68,506
01/14/00 100,836.
My feeling here is that sure and certain metal against metal has a clear fatigue point at which time some type of failure will occur. I am concerned with this as an annoyance, but more importantly a safety issue. For example, I plan to take a driving trip this spring. Since I will have guests with me I will lease another vehicle to avoid this potential problem. That should suggest the degree of my safety concern.
Service manager Michael Brown was kind enough to keep the vehicle a week and drive it himself to try to replicate the problem. He was unable to do so, probably because he didn't drive enough miles, but I appreciated his personal effort anyway. We discussed the matter of perhaps my tape recording the sound on a future trip.
I have not had the occasion for a road trip since, but in retrospect I'm not especially optimistic about the success of this operation. I can only say I think I have defined this problem with enough specificity to find a fix short of having to replicate it.
My purpose here is not to complain about Swope Infiniti. My purpose here is to
wonder if perhaps you can help Swope Infiniti with this problem. For example, has this problem happened elsewhere to a degree to get on your data base, but not to a degree to issue a tech bulletin on the problem? I firmly believe this is a product or part defect. If you do have the wherewithal to help Swope Infiniti that would appear to be constructive.
Do the sporadic intervals between the dates above suggest that the problem was ever fixed at one time? No. The situation is that my driving vacations of long distances are sporadic and 2) over various intervals I have despaired of ever getting this problem fixed and simply tolerated it despite my concern.
Can you help me?
Unreasonable operating costs.
My check engine warning light appeared on the following dates and the following expenses were on the statement: (not all expenses were related to the engine light, but you have the records).
Date Miles Total Costs.
08/13/01 92, 427 $ 805.96
11/19/01 96, 278 860.30.
Your customer service operator stated: "well, after all, it has 100,000 miles on it."
I replied, "yes, but I thought we were talking about an Infiniti Q45, not a Yugo." I could see that conversation was going nowhere, but she "graciously" offered a $200 credit on future service as a matter of "customer satisfaction."
Today is March 28, 2002 and my engine warning light has again come on. This makes three times in slightly more than 7 months. I have begun to refer to this light among my friends as the "Sam Swope Infiniti $800 jackpot light" that is set to appear at roughly 90 day intervals. In this instance, I will accept the Yugo analogy. I did not buy a Q45 expecting cheap Yugo maintenance costs. However, I did buy an Infiniti expecting higher, but still reasonable upkeep costs. If I am facing yet a third $800 engine repair inside of 7 months, my resulting level of disappointment will be hard to describe.
I should not overlook telling you that in every other respect my Q45 is a delightful vehicle to operate and has exceeded my expectations. Excepting these two problems, I wouldn't hesitate to buy or recommend a second one. Also, excepting these two instances, I am pleased with my Infiniti dealer Sam Swope Infiniti.
However, may I ask for your consideration in reviewing these two issues for solutions?
Sincerely.
John M. Poythress.
Dear John,
I think your service deppartment is at fault not the quality of the vehicle. You keep repeating that the promblem is unfixed or unfixable. For one nothing in or on a car is unfixable. Secondly if it remains unfixed when the car is returned and you paid for work to be completed then what did they do, sat and looked at it.
You lack of knowledge of anything mechanical shows, though your written communitation skills far exeedes mine, but then any one can read a book and learn. the real genius
is the one who knows how to use is hands. His education is far more indepth than any one who works in an office.
Getting back to the subject try a different mechanic.
p.s. I'm a nissan mechanic and have owend 5 nissans my self
and have never had a major problem with mine, but then for me, major is a bad motor not whining because I don't have a/c.
I own a 96 Infiniti Q45 it has 105,000 miles on it. I bought it with 22,000 miles on it. It is one of the best cars I have ever owned, and I have owned a great deal of cars! I had a similar experience with my Q45. I replaced the Upper Control arms and Front struts. Yes, John even though you own an Infiniti, these things have to be replaced. As for the check engine light, it is merely an indicator that an emission control feature MAY be malfunctioning. This has happened too many vehicles I have owned. Buy fuel injector cleaner and put it in. The light goes off!!
I actually went on the WEB today to see if anybody had similar good luck with their 96 Q45...I want to know when this thing will ever break???
Thanks.
Are any of the parts interchangeable with lower priced Nissan's? I need front and rear struts and they seem to look like any other struts, but the cost of the Infinity struts run close to $500. Everything that I order for this car seems to be about 180% higher than normal parts. example, Tie rod ends $30, Ford Taurus ends14.99. Timm Hudd47@yahoo.com.
When writing a complaint letter, exclude any kind of excuses that favor the dealer or the manufacturer. saying that you've been happy with the performance of the car, aside from the fact it really disturbs you that it's bad on the highway after a certain number of miles - and especially that you're concerned about safety - just gives them reason to dance around your complaint a little bit more. make your criticisms pointed and certain. your complaint sounds valid and shouldn't be minimized with the fact that you often get some pleasure out of driving a relatively expensive vehicle.
Get over it. It is a car, they need repairs. They are not perfect. Every car breaks down whether it be a yugo or a rolls royce. Every car is different. I do not own an Infinity, but I do own a Mitsubishi Diamante LS. I expect things to go wrong with it. It sounds like you should have a complaint with the service department. Every problem on a car can be repaired or replaced. That is neglect on the service department for not fixing it right the first time.
You sound like a guy from service department.
To the person who said "get over it"...I own a 1991 camry and have owned it since new and it has not been in the repair shop once in 16 years. Cars don't just "break" and when someone spends the kinds of money these high end luxury cars cost, they have every right to be pissed.
Older cars need repairs, you should lease a car, that way you would have a new car every 3 years and not have to worry about repairs.
I agree with the statement that there isn't a problem that cannot be fixed.
I have worked for auto dealers of several brands and all had cars or trucks with crazy hard to find problems. The end result was they were fixed. How? by having the best person in the shop work on the car and they did not get paid for the job if it came back with the same complaint.
Remember, no matter how nice the dealer personnel speak to you, if the problem isn't fixed, it isn't fixed and the dealer is doing something wrong.
Get over it? No way, get mad and contact your consumer affairs office and file a complaint. Then file a complaint with the head office and demand to see the dealer rep. the Rep has the power to force the dealer to put up or shut up.
All repairs are under some kind of warranty and 90 days seems too short a time for the same problem to return if it was in fact properly repaired.
Don't let them sweet talk you and make you feel that it is some how not their fault, it is. They either did not do the job or they did a bad job.
As with any organization, there are good people and there are those who should take up knitting.
Hope you can find a dealer or independent shop that has the staff who cares enough to not quit until the problem is found and repaired.
Best of luck.
I bought a used (48,000 mile) 1996 Infinity Q45 from the second owner in the greater Tucson, AZ area in 2003. He was told the timing belt was soon to fail at that mileage. Drove it freeway and city until 2005 for another faultless 50,000 miles on the original belt. Gave it to my father knowing the mileage would be kept low, but had all service done by me.
Minus a couple cracked light lenses, creased rear bumper, new radiator fan relay and thorough interior cleaning, I'm anxiously taking the car back since he can no longer drive (thank goodness). I expect some expense in keeping this incredible vehicle up to code for its age, but for the record, it will most likely be the last car I own. For its condition, performance, ride and engineering, it will be less expensive to invest in restoration than buying anything new to equal it. It's simply the best, for me.
I have a QX4 infinity 2002 with 53,000 miles on it. I recently failed inspection because my check engine light was on. I failed for emissions and my dealer said it needs a computer systems updated to the tune of $150.00. That may or may not be my problem. Further replacements of sensors from my emissions certified center may be required. Should the manufacturer cover computer updates that are concerned with emissions under the clean air act?
Anyone who can lead me to an answer would be appreciated.
In reply to the the above 1996 Q45 owner:
I too have a 1996 Q45 and am very pleased with the car. The person who said it needed a timing belt is misinformed as the Q45 has a chain that should not need replacing. The early Q's had plastic chain guides which sometimes failed and usually destroyed the engine. This applies to 1990 to 1993 models only though.
I have a 1996 Q45 that I have had for 5 years now. It has been a great car. The price vs. performance factor is one of the best around. Especially if you can work on cars yourself.
As with any older high end luxury car, they will need maintenance from time to time, and that will be very expensive at the dealer. These are not the easiest cars to work on.
Typical of older Q45's, the under plenum hoses will need replacing at some point. Most say from 100,000 miles, although many go well beyond that. The design has many rubber hoses that are under the plenum and deteriorate over time. This is true of the knock sensors as well. This is an involved procedure to remove the plenum and replace everything. Valve cover gaskets tend to seep as well, so they should be replaced at the same time.
Other than that, routine maintenance is minimal. As noted before, the time "belt" is actually a chain and is not a factor on post 1993 models.
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