Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60, 61-75, 76-90, 91-105, 106-120, 121-131
Cold Start problems. Manufacturer "cover up"?
The problem arises as follows:
A.The Saturn vehicle is exposed to temperatures at or approaching 32 degrees F for several hours when the engine is not running (usually 6-10 hours.)
B.An operator attempts to start the vehicle, the ignition switch clicks and the car stalls.
C.The security system kicks in. The security light blinks and the odometer screen reads: “Service Engine Soon.” Fuel will not be sent to the engine.
D.The vehicle will now NOT start for about 8-10 minutes as the security system resets.
E.After 8-10 minutes, the security light will stop blinking and then go out. “The service engine soon” scroll light will stop and also go out.
F.Now the operator may attempt to start the vehicle again.
G.However, if the ignition switch grease has not adequately warmed, then the process will begin again.
H.A signal that the vehicle will likely start after the present “lock-out” will be when the ignition seems to crank a bit more than just a click, before locking out again.
Remedy:1. The grease in the ignition switch is freezing and/or hardening so that the ignition switch can not engage. The dealer must recall all of these vehicles and replace the ignition switch and grease. They apparently have a redesigned switch, which certainly can be construed as an admission to the faulty design. Of course, this type of remedial measure cannot be used in court, but is certainly helpful to those of us consumers who are the victims of the faulty design. Saturn must openly acknowledge the mistake and fix it, before someone is stranded in the cold, in an area with no cell phone service.
This is an established problem.
2003 Saturn Ion. This car will not start in the cold weather. If the temperature is below 32 degrees F for an extended period of time, the car will stall. This will be a recall item once we get together and sue Saturn for this obvious negligent behavior. This problem is well known and is continual. Perhaps when some unfortunate soul is stranded in the wilderness and dies, then the manufacturer will pay attention to this cold weather start problem. The public is well aware of the problem and so is Saturn.
It would be well worth it for the corporate office to crunch the numbers and decide to recall the vehicle for this problem. I have read that the difficultly may have to do with a type of lubricant on the starter, which hardens in the cold weather. The car stalls as a result, and then the Pass-lock kicks in. After 8 minutes, the car may start, or one may have to wait an additional 8 minutes (or more) for the ignition switch to loosen up enough to start the engine. However, the car may stall yet again---and set off the passlock system yet again.
Saturn is negligent at the very least--and criminally negligent if they know of this problem---the potential dangers of it---and do nothing.
SERVICE BULLETIN:040845005 NHTSA ITEM NUMBER:10007431
MFG Bulletin Date: 20060301
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
Bulletin Summary: NO CRANK, NO START WHEN AMBIENT TEMPERATURES IS COLD - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) B2960 AND OR B3033 ARE SET. *TT.
Yes, I just called Saturn, Dartmouth, MA, and they have acknowledged this problem. So far, corporate is doing nothing. Apparently, the ignition switches were made more sensitive after Saturn was rated the #1 most stolen car in 1995. (See story below.) The ignition switches were redesigned (using the same grease), thus causing this problem.
Excerpt:
"Auto thieves target 1995 Saturn the most
Top-selling Asian cars and big sport-utility vehicles are enticing, too.
By Associated Press
Published May 25, 2004
DETROIT - (AP) The 1995 Saturn SL was the nation's most-stolen vehicle last year based on thefts versus the number of models registered, but hot-selling cars from Asian manufacturers remain popular targets and big sport utility vehicles are gaining ground, a new report shows.
One out of every 200 registered 1995 Saturn SLs was stolen in 2003, placing it ahead of the 1998 Acura Integra and the 1994 Saturn SL as the vehicle thieves targeted most, according to CCC Information Services Inc., an insurance industry tracker of trends in theft and vehicle damage... Saturn spokeswoman Sue Holmgren said the brand, a division of General Motors Corp., had no internal data showing high theft rates, but she noted the automaker has made significant changes to its ignition system since 1995.
One enhancement is a feature that disables the vehicle's fuel supply if it's started without a key."
However, the enhancement has subsequently caused the cold start problem that is present in newer models. This has also been admitted by the Saturn Representative in Dartmouth, MA. The ignition switch has supposedly been redesigned yet again, with new grease and the PCM has been reprogrammed to account for the change, so that an operator does not get locked out. THIS SHOULD BE A RECALL ITEM.
I am in complete shock of this!! I bought my Saturn Ion 3 brand new in 2003 and have many internal problems (CD player spitting out my Cd's for no reason, they replaced it and it still does it! Also the heater fan chirps seriously bad, they did two fixes to it and then replaced it and it's doing it again already). Then the catalytic converter has gone bad and needed to be replaced as well. And just in the last 6 weeks I have been having the NOT starting issue and not knowing why. I removed the battery to have it tested and it tested out great, thus not the problem, but why the car will start sometimes and why it won't others was baffling my husband and I. Now I google to read up on the Saturn service manual and find out what the car and padlock symbol is and here I read my answer! Thank you so much for clearing this up for us. I guess we will be calling the dealership tomorrow to see if they will correct this issue and also be under warranty or not?
Thank you!!
Karen A.
Marysville, WA.
I too own a 2003 Saturn Ion. Over the course of the past few months I have experienced starting problems as well. I had the starter replaced by a non Saturn dealer and the problem continues. Currently, I've not gone to the Saturn Dealer to have them do a diagnostic test since the prior repair of starter will be replaced again. Of course I know this will not fix the problem now that I've read some of the comments listed. In the past 3 weeks it has only happened once, but it can be such an inconvenience sitting there and turning the key on and off for 10-15 minutes until the ignition engages. I also have a friend with the same vehicle and same problem. He did go to Saturn dealership and they agreed to split the total cost and replaced the ignition switch. Left in the cold in Wisconsin.
2003-92K miles. Problem started in the first cold morning in the fall, then OK for next 6 weeks. Cold weather returns and problem is back. Check with local dealer where I purchased the vehicle new and explained the problem. First response was "no it's not a recall, but the ignition switch will need to be replaced". Asked if this was a common problem, answer :"unknown, but would you like us to diagnose the problem before changing the switch? I'll continue this at the dealer.
Update to the 03 Ion with 92K miles. Visited the dealer who knew nothing of this issue, but did leave a copy of "2003 Saturn - Faulty design not acknowledged by Saturn" on the front passenger seat. Waited in the lounge. 58 minuets later I was paged and car is all set. They replaced ignition switch assembly P/N 10392423 under labor code - Warranty policy. Total cost $ 0 dollars and received a courtesy vacuum. Overall a very pleasant experience. Did leaving the "report" on the front seat help?
Has anyone ever experienced a second failure on the pass lock / ignition switch? I have a Saturn Ion-2003, and the part was replaced in the winter 2003-2004. It's bitter cold in Chicago, I know it's not the battery (replaced this week with a stronger battery), and I park outside. I started the car, and it wouldn't turn over, and the failure light (or whatever that light is called) lit up--the same light that is lit when you don't screw in the gas cap tight enough. I waited the 15 minutes, and the car started right away. I have an appointment with the dealer this Monday-also going to be bitter cold, so I don't plan on the car starting right away.
I have a Saturn 04 Ion 2. My first winter with the car, they had to replace the starter/ignition, and now in the past 9 months, it has stalled three times while I was driving. They say they can't figure out the problem and they need to recreate the stall, but have been unable to do this as well. Any suggestions...?
I had the same trouble with my 2003 Ion. It happened about once a year so I didn't worry much because it's impossible to fix something that intermittent. Now that Wisconsin is in a deep freeze this trouble is happening daily. Called the service manager and he says warm the key up as best you can, try to start it and get the car in. That didn't work, had it towed. They know about this problem! Repairs cost $207.00 and now trouble is gone. Sadly, I'm trading this in to another automaker while it still runs.
Chicago is still in a deep freeze and I cancelled my appointment with the dealer. I had the problem yesterday, and today, but the second start today worked. I'll keep my Saturn, but I'm not sure if I'll continue to buy Saturn after this--too frustrating, and knowing that someone just paid $207.00 for the fix--that's not encouraging.
I have to tell all of you that I have had the same problem from the very beginning. In fact, when it first happened, the service department had no idea what was going on, and did diagnostics on it over and over to no avail. They sent the car home and said there was nothing wrong. They told me that if it didn't happen while they were there, then they couldn't tell me what was wrong. One day, when the weather turned cold again, I dropped my son off at preschool and couldn't start my car. I had to walk home and call Saturn to tow my car. Then I had to walk back to school to pick up my son. I was furious with Saturn and demanded that they find out what was wrong. After running more diagnostics (because now the car didn't start so apparently they could figure out the problem), they found that the cold would trigger some type of "tampering" security and cut the fuel line. They replaced the ignition parts and sent me on my way. Well, it happened again the next winter. When it got towed in, they informed me that my car had been the first to show a problem, then they started to see a trend of more cars coming in with the same problem. I was told that they had new parts that they were replacing the old parts with. They fixed it and I didn't have a problem again the past winters because they were so warm. Well, today the same thing happened. Now I'm told that they won't pay for towing. I'm fed up with Saturn and I'm going to Mitsubishi to buy a new car. At least Mitsubishi replaced my entire engine when the fan belt broke and cooked my engine.
I am having the same issue in Wisconsin and I'm grateful to you all for informing me on this issue. My car is no longer under warranty and it's a 2003 ION. I did notice that I wait long enough it will start. I fear that I will have problems trying to get this fixed at the dealership seeing how they did not respond when they claimed they sold me a car with brand new tires and I later found that the tires were not new. I do not have $207 dollars at the moment to fix this problem and I travel a lot for work. This is not good! Also frozen in Wisconsin.
This is amazing!!! I just called the Saturn dealer to check on the status of my car thinking I needed a new battery. I've been jump starting my car for over a week in the Pittsburgh FRIGID below zero temperatures...
They said the battery checked out great and they are testing the Ignition Pass Lock Switch. Being a female, I immediately become defensive thinking they are trying to scam me, so I googled their diagnosis and found this! I printed it out and plan on taking it back with me when I pick up my car. I will let you know how everything turns out.
Thank you everyone for your comments.
I'm having the exact same issue today... Called the dealership and said they were being flooded with calls regarding this (it's in the negatives here in Dayton OH)
They said they would look into it, but more than likely not covered by the warranty.
My question is... can you use wd40 on your keys?
I just had my ignition switch replaced yesterday for the same problems. Essentially, my car would not start after work in very cold temperatures. After I saw these posts I was fired up a bit and decided to write Saturn an email referencing this website. Saturn wrote back very promptly and informed me that recalls are put in place by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. There is a place on their website that allows you to inform them of a vehicle defect by filing a complaint. Please join me in informing them by visiting http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ and perhaps we can encourage a recall and keep other Saturn owners from going through this same inconvenience.
I have had the same issue. I am disappointed to see the number of recurrent problems and the reluctance of Saturn to remedy the issue. I own a 2004 Ion 3 that I purchased just 12 months ago. I recently started having the intermittent starting issues. Last night it happened again and I just wasn't willing to risk being out in the frigid temperatures with it not starting again. I went to the dealership armed with the Technical Service Bulletin information and I had already called Saturn Corporate Customer Service and received a case number. The Service Department tried to convince me that I might not have the same issue as the technical service bulletin. I agreed to the diagnostics to see what the issue was. It was indeed the same issue and because the ignition switch needs to be replaced, they also have to reset the passlock. I am so disheartened to see that others are seeing this issue reoccur. In addition, after they did determine that this was the same issue as the TSB, they refused to negotiate the costs at all. It is going to cost me $291.00. I am frustrated with this. What they have told me is that they reserve the right to determine when they cover this issue on a case by case basis and that my case doesn't qualify. I have submitted complaints to the NHTSA, to the General Manager at the local dealership. I will send a complaint to the General Manager at Saturn Corporate and I will potentially submit a complaint to the MN State Attorney General's Office. Then, I'm trading in my Saturn for a Honda.