15th Dec 2010, 11:47
That's INITIAL build quality. We who tend to drive our Toyotas for 200,000-250,000 miles could care less about that and more about LONG TERM reliability.
Toyota had the Prius in 1997, which was about 6 or 7 years before any of the domestic automakers even tried to bring one to market. It's only been recently that Ford or GM have actually brought what I would consider to be a real hybrid to market. The Prius is one of the most highly rated cars on the road. Period. Our Prius is now almost 10 years old and we have had ZERO problems with it.
Either way, please stop repeating the same, tired, worn-out statements on each and every Toyota post. We who have always owned Toyotas will continue to buy Toyotas.
15th Dec 2010, 12:09
Oh, the old J.D. Powers ratings again! Yes, Toyota has had recalls and they dropped. The recalls are already starting to fade away and by the traffic I always see at Toyota dealers it isn't slowing them as much as people think. They will be back on top soon enough.
You did neglect to mention that Lexus tops J.D. Powers rankings over Ford, GM and everything else domestic though didn't you? And who is their parent company? Hmmmmm... Toyota? I guess you would want to leave that off of your ratings quotes though wouldn't you?
The Fusion Hybrid is a nice car true enough. It is pretty much on par with any other hybrid though. The Prius is an amazing vehicle and has sold so many copies that people still are waiting in line for them. In fact, this post is the very first time I have heard of a complaint by anyone who owns one. I am sure they are out there but I have never heard about any other complaints.
The Fusion had its time of "projected reliability" and now "projected resale values". Now the reliability is starting to wane with mounting transmission problems. The resale projections are a joke really as it is still domestic. Right now they aren't holding value better than anything else as far as KBB is concerned. So far in my experience the car that holds the resale title is the 2008 Honda Accord. It booked higher than I paid for it after the first year of driving (when the most depreciation generally occurs) and almost 20K miles... and it was a base model!
15th Dec 2010, 20:26
More Ford fans arguing against Toyota. I guess everybody has to take a shot at the best. I haven't visited this site much in about a year, back when the Ford fans were raving about how the Fusion was heaven on wheels. Ha. Just like every other Ford car that's 'supposed' to be great and finally NOT a piece of junk, nobody bought it, it fizzled out, and I'm sure will take it's rightful place next to such Ford wonders as the Contour.. similar transmission problems, which is to say that it was junk.
Meanwhile, the Camry and Accord, as always, breeze right on by as the very best, year after year. I was in a month long argument with another self-proclaimed 'mechanic' (Ford fan) who told me that Toyota's were junk because they had aluminum blocks and the F-150 was the greatest thing ever because of a cast iron block.. guess what? ALL Ford's new lineup of engines for the F-150, except for one, now have aluminum blocks.
As usual in the last 30 or so years, domestic automakers follow the lead of Toyota and Honda. Too little, too late, and embarrassingly behind the times. Wonder what that guy thinks now that everything he said was wrong? Or are Fords just as crappy as Toyota's now because of the aluminum blocks?
It's fun to argue automobiles with people that are blinded by brand loyalty. That's the sad part, if you're going to choose to be that way, at least pick a decent one, such as Honda or Toyota.
Here's the real truth of it, again: Toyota has always been much higher in design and build quality than Ford, GM, or Dodge. They have had problems, as does any company that builds any product. However, in the end, they have less of them and still build, by far, the most reliable automobiles on the road, with the possible exception of Honda. I even had a guy tell me that the four cylinder in a Chevy Cavalier was as good as a four cylinder Honda engine...
16th Dec 2010, 18:17
I just read a tragic story on Yahoo. A man died because his minivan's rear axle broke in half and he slammed into a building. It was a Ford Windstar. The family claims the recall notice came after he was already dead and 6 weeks after it was supposedly listed as a recall by Ford. Truly a sad story.
Just goes to show ALL manufacturers have recalls and many of them are for dangerous catastrophic failures. Toyota is far from the only one who has had these type of recalls.
17th Dec 2010, 02:48
The truth? This site is for opinions, there is no "truth" in your opinion.
I'm tired of these same old arguments where a brand is best "because I say so". Everyone has their brand preferences, that's never going to change.
Every single brand has their lemons, even Honda and Toyota, Google "Odyssey transmission failure" and "4-runner head gasket" if you don't believe me.
Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw when buying used cars. Condition and mileage is much more important than the brand when shopping for a car. You always end up overpaying for the brand, and compromising options.
Personally I've had bad luck with Ford and Nissan cars, but I won't say that all Ford and Nissan are bad, because maybe I just got some bad ones.
The brands I have had good luck with are GM, Subaru, Dodge, Volvo, but that was just in my own experience, I'm not saying that they are any better.
Any well maintained car will last longer than an ill maintained car of any brand.
My Honda Civic was good other than the rust, the metal was thin and poor quality, it rusted way quicker than other cars its age, and had to be sold for parts early.
Later I had a Toyota Rav4 that cost me tons in repairs, probably the worst lemon I've ever had, the check engine light would not go away, and passing the emissions test was always costly. I would not say Toyota is better than any other brand by all means; mine was a lot of trouble.
17th Dec 2010, 15:26
I just find it interesting that there seems to be a lot of people who want to badmouth Toyota - and particularly the Prius. Remember - as recently as the 70's, Toyota had a very tiny foothold in the US market. It was an unproven, unknown brand, and thus a lot of people were skeptical of the brand. The whole reason Toyota rose to prominence was from a well-deserved reputation of building high quality, no-nonsense cars and trucks. Had they instead made junk, they would've not had the success they have now. Prior to import brands, you really didn't have a choice: It was either GM, Ford, Chrysler, or Studabaker.
Companies like Toyota eventually forced the remaining big 3 to step it up and start competing with better cars and trucks. To their credit, the Big 3 have made great strides of late, even producing some vehicles that I would consider, and even a few that actually step outside the lines - like the Volt.
But in regards to the Prius, those that mock it in my opinion probably don't know that much about them. They were the same people that declared the batteries in them cost $10,000 and would fail in 2 years. Yet our Prius is almost 10 years old and the battery is holding up just fine. In fact, hardly any of the batteries in these cars have failed. It's an incredibly complicated car, having 2 separate coolant systems, several computers, and a complex transaxle coupled to the electric motor. That all of this works - in our case with the first generation Prius - flawlessly, is amazing. Toyota proved that a hybrid electric system was practical for everyday driving. Now that GM has pushed the ball a little further with the Volt, perhaps Toyota will also introduce their own addition to electric drivetrains.
In the end it is less about where something is made, and more about what you as the end consumer get in return. Due to global competition, consumers have a wide variety of choices, and the products they buy are not only better than they were 10 years ago, but more reliable, safer, and more ingenuous. If there were no global competition, we would all still be driving land yachts and clunkers.