2007 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

10:50's comment brightened my day. I forgot about the Land Cruisers and such that go about Africa riding along with Elephants and have no mechanical issues. Good point!

22:07,

Again- the argument over whether buying an American brand product versus a foreign brand is almost archaic and nonsensical. As anyone can see by simply flipping open the hood of their Ford or Chevy, a vast majority of those components came from overseas or made entirely in other countries to start with.

It's called capitalism. Ever shop at Wal-Mart? Aren't they supposed to be the "All-American" store for the US? Funny how over 90% of the merchandise they sell is from China. Indeed- we as a country are NOT a manufacturing country any longer. When we talk about large corporations like GM, Toyota, IBM, Boeing, GE, and so forth, we're no longer talking about a singular, insulated national company with benevolent leaders like Henry Ford. Instead we're talking about Multi-national corporations that employ hundreds of thousands of workers all over the world.

You might find it interesting that Bob Lutz, the vice chairman of GM, has worked for BMW, Ford, GM, and Chrysler. He is a swiss-born 72 year old man who in my opinion understands global product development and cooperation very well. I have a lot of respect for him and believe he will eventually turn GM around and help them build better cars. But if you look at what they are doing, they're doing like many multi-national companies. They utilize a treasure chest of suppliers, manufacturing facilities, and branches internationally. GM is one of the best selling brands in China. They develop, build, and sell cars there. That's why some of Chevrolet's engines are now being shipped from China.

The same with Boeing. Roughly 30% of their planes are made in Japan. Other components come from US, European, and Canadian companies. The result is that they can build a better, more efficient, cost-effective plane. Ever heard of the "Dreamliner"? that's the sort of plane we're talking about.

At the same time, Japanese, European, and other US companies do the same thing. They employee the very best companies regardless of national origin to develop superior products. GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler ALL do the same thing. I fail to see the difference between a Japanese workers making parts for an American plane and US workers making parts for a Japanese car. In both cases, the workers of both companies can go home to their families with money in their pockets. We all win this way. If your problem is simply that they're Japanese, then that has nothing to do with business. Nationalism is not useful in modern economics.

So if you don't like the idea of international capitalism and still believe in the old-fashioned myth that buying American is really American, with visions of US workers driving rivets and welding steel, then unfortunately you're behind the times. To me the brand and national origins of a product is more about who makes it, what kind of quality the product is, and what value it represents to me as a consumer. If I choose to buy cheap, I go to Wal Mart. If I want a high quality car, I buy Toyotas. If GM or Ford starts making vehicles I feel are competent enough to hold up as well as my Tacoma, I'll buy GM. The benefit to the modern consumer is the ability to choose from amongst the best made products. This is how capitalism works.

Lastly, the cast-iron sleeves in an engine as being held up to argue for the superiority of a solid cast iron engine is not really a point. Take apart your lawn mower. The block is aluminum and the sleeve is iron. Why? Because the aluminum will run cooler and at the same time will be lightweight. In a car, if you have a lightweight engine with a cast iron sleeve, you get the same wear characteristics of iron with the fuel savings of aluminum. This is nothing new.

20:54 Wrong again. And again. I guess you personally know all Tundra owners and can verify what they haul and don't haul. Give me a break. What's even funnier than that is your statement about keeping a Ford as a work truck for 30 years. 30 months maybe. Since I can't provide any facts that satisfy you unless it involves saying how Ford is better, let's see if you can answer some of my questions:

1. Why did my one and only Ford, a Ranger, run less than 4 years before I had engine, transmission, AND rear differential trouble twice?

2. How do you explain the fact that I'm on my third Toyota, and NOT ONE of them has EVER!! needed a single repair? Did I just get the one bad Ranger in the world and lucked out THREE times in a row with the Toyota's? I hope you won't resort to that explanation.

3. Why does practically EVERYONE I know feel the same way I do about how much better their Toyota's have performed than the Ford's they've owned? I can't wait to read this one.

I can ride a jeep out in the bush... but I need a capable truck in America. I have a full size domestic.

22:22 There's no Ford that will take abuse like a Toyota. These Ford guys think that when they haul a rowboat or 4 sheets of plywood and the truck doesn't blow up (yet), that means it's 'tough'.

Maybe Ford HAS to use a cast iron block because their engine design sucks so bad they can't make one work with aluminum. That cast iron block will never warp. Not even after the pistons, rings, heads, rods, and transmission blows up and wears out after 110,000 miles, and the Toyota with the aluminum block is still running for another 200,000 beyond that.

Are these Land Cruisers pulling 10,000lbs trailers as they cross Africa? Or are they just fluttering across with no load in the back? (As usual)

I think what it all boils down to is that there's quite a few patriotic folks on this board who are frustrated that certain Japanese automakers are making inroads on "Our turf"

As someone who grew up in a very rural area where everyone drove A: Chevy's and B: Fords and now lives in a metropolitan area where virtually 65% of all the cars are imports, I can tell you from what I'm observing that different parts of the country have vastly different vehicle preferences. By far the best selling cars in my area are Japanese cars. A close second would be European cars. If you look at that mixup, obviously reliability isn't the most pressing concern for people these days. VW's, Mercedes, and BMW have less than perfect reliability ratings. In fact, some are actually below Kia, Hyundai and all the domestic brands by a good margin. So if it isn't reliability, then why are people buying these cars?

The answer is that they are appealing. Think about it. GM produces the Chevy Cobalt, which at introduction was supposed to be a Honda Civic fighter. No way. The car is boring, bulbous looking and "econocar" in every respect. You rarely see anyone my age driving them. Meanwhile the new Civic has a much more appealing design.

Simply put, Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Honda, and Toyota (with their Scion brand) are much more on target in delivering cars that appeal to a broad consumer base. What's more important is that they appeal to people living in metropolitan, heavy population centers which are filled with young people like myself. Sure- Chevys and Buicks sell great in rural areas and to families with litters of kids and so forth, but if you're a large corporation, you need to consider all target demographics. Hence Toyota makes a boring yet reliable family sedan (Camry) and smaller, upbeat sporty cars (Scion). They're hitting the marks.

What GM and Ford need is to step away from the safety zones and start making cars that are more appealing and original. These days it is way more than just making a reliable acceptable car. You have to reach out and make cars that are extraordinary. I feel that GM in particular has come a long way. But I still see their products as being just a hair too old hat. Step up to the plate.

More likely you will see a Grady White on the back of my domestic. I guess you can tow a rowboat or 4 sheets of plywood... again what's your comment again on the superiority of the import aluminum engine to the strength, performance, carrying and towing performance to Ford Diesel pickups that I see in numbers every day? I see only one Tundra in the morning getting small quantities of contractor supplies/materials... one.

19:26 Yeah, they're 'fluttering' through 115 degree heat, jungle climates, and sand dunes that would make a Ford or Chevy overheat and lose it's transmission after about 2 hours. If you want something that might possibly get you to the grocery store on paved roads without blowing up, take your chances with a Ford. Leave the real off roading and exploring to the Toyota's. Ford 'Explorer', ha ha; 'exploring' the service garage over and over again.

If the mfrs. load/tow rating exceeds recommendations (Toyota Tundra) do you buy a Tundra anyway? I would not like to jeopardize lived by not following mfrs specifications seems foolhardy and a severe liability. Ford has a vehicle strong enough... I would suspect with Arizona's steady 110 degree plus heat this month each day it may certainly simulate the African plains.

13:48 I'm fairly sure living in Arizona and Africa are two different things. Of course there are some F-150 owners on here who probably live in Arizona, in the middle of the desert, and haul 18,000 pounds of molten lead in the beds of their trucks uphill both ways to work every day.

Let's go the other direction with the climate thing. I lived in SC, and went home to PA around Christmas last year to visit family. With the wind chill, at night, it was 20 degrees below zero. In morning, when I left, my Tacoma was the only vehicle of three that would start. My sister's Blazer, which was in the garage was frozen solid and wouldn't turn over. Neither would my brother in law's brand new Silverado. Just another example of many where a Toyota will perform under harsh conditions and the domestics won't. I let it warm up for a couple of minutes and drove it 600 miles back home. My sister traded the Blazer in for an import this past summer. Oh, and it was 6 years old and still worth about a thousand less than my 10 year old Tacoma on trade in. I wonder why that is.

We really don't care about your vehicle starting in 20 degrees below zero. So what? I supposed every single domestic in a 50 mile radius wouldn't start either? My 78 Chevy starts regardless of the temperature, it just takes forever to warm up in the winter.

These exaggerations such as "your domestic transmission would fall apart in two hours" or "your domestic pulls 18,000 pounds of molten lead" just show your zealous hatred of American products, along with corny humor.

In your next comment, just answer something very simple without any of your rhetoric. Have you ever pulled 12,000 pounds with your Toyota? Have you ever hauled 1000 pounds to 4000 pounds with your Toyota's bed? Yes or No? Make all the exaggerations you want (a trillion pounds, a zillion pounds, or whatever). I have seen numerous domestics moving these numbers. Have you done this?

I don't care about Africa and I don't care about the Arctic circle. We never argued whether Toyota's were reliable or whether they'd start in the winter. No one has made that argument. The argument is, how is a Toyota a tougher structure when it has less metal in its frame? I can drop my radio remote-controlled monster truck from 10 feet in the air and not break it when it hits the ground. It's made of plastic. Is it tougher than a real-life truck, or is it lighter? Is your Tacoma tougher than a F-350, F-250, F-150, or is it lighter? For a thinner and lighter truck to be heavier duty than a heavy truck defies physics. I suppose an F-150 is tougher than a semi-truck because it's frame is smaller?

Thinner frame rails are not tougher than thicker frame rails. Thinner leaf springs cannot haul more than thicker leaf springs. Smaller control arms do not hold the front wheels on better than larger control arms.

Aluminum engines don't handle overheating better than cast-iron engines. I dare you to drain the anti-freeze and water out of your Tacoma and run the engine until it seizes and see if you can start it again. The 27 year old radiator in my C20 developed a hole in it in 2005 and I overheated the engine. It stalled and wouldn't start back up because it got so hot. I let the truck sit for 30 minutes and the engine fired right up and is still firing up in 2007. Nothing needed to be repaired, and I still haven't replaced anything on the engine with the exception of electrical components. Will you please try this before you make another comment?

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think any of us really argue whether Toyota has made reliable engines over the years. My old Honda Accord had a great aluminum engine. But just because Toyota makes reliable engines doesn't mean that Ford and Chevy don't. They can all make reliable engines without the Earth exploding, you know? Chevy 5.7 350's are incredible engines. They are extremely simple, yet very heavy duty. They are tuned like diesels so they put out peak torque at 2400 rpms. They will run with little or no problems for decades. You can pull things that go beyond the tow rating of the truck and the engine acts like it doesn't know the difference. They'll move loads idling up hills. Ford 4.2L V6 engines are very reliable engines that reach their peak torque at 3700 rpms and give you 20 miles per gallon in a 5000 pound chassis. They start right up time after time and never hesitate to give you service.

When you post your next comment, will you please tell us some Toyota engines that you think or know to be some very solid and classic tried and true engines? Please don't mention the new 5.7L, it's not been around near long enough. This way we can have a little more of a discussion, instead of an angry cat fight. This would be more effective than your "Ford's are junk" and "One Toyota will last the life of two Ford's" rhetoric.

Here's some rhetoric I could say a thousand times: "One Ford will do the work of two Toyota's".

If you want to give examples of cold-weather starting, why not talk about someplace that is actually cold? I grew up in northern Wisconsin, and even after nights that hit 40 degrees below zero (that is NOT including wind chill -- the wind chill was 90 below zero), our '74 Dodge Monaco (400 cubic inch V-8) would still start after sitting in an open lean-to, exposed to the weather.

Well said 23:58,

The main point here is that the Toyota Tundra has not been around nearly long enough to prove that it's any good. (And the initial signs don't look good) You can't assume that this new truck is better than the domestic competition just because it's a Toyota.

Last question, how many 1985 Toyota pickup trucks do you see that are still around and running, and how many 1985 Chevy Silverado or F150 pickup trucks are still on the road? If Toyotas really do last forever like you say, how come I never see the ones that should still be around?

Simple answer over whether or not Toyota trucks will work as hard or harder than any Ford or Chevy is yes. The simple answer over whether or not a Toyota or more reliable on average than Ford or Chevy... the answer would be yes.

Just look up any number of consumer ratings and independent testing research and you'll see the numbers.

Lastly, I live in California and I see a TON of late 70's, early 80's toyotas still being used for serious work. Perhaps it is the fact that until recent history, places in the Midwest, South, and so forth were still fairly domestic-only minded. Trust me- I grew up in the South and even now the rules of the area are that you buy either Ford or Chevy. If you live in Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Kansas and claim you see few old Toyotas, its because Toyotas in the early, mid-80's were not very prevelant.