2007 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

So far, the ONLY argument made against Toyotas has been that they use aluminum engines. The one and only technical comparison made has been whether an engine overheats and how both metals react and subsequently cause engine damage as a result.

As mentioned, if your powertrain is properly maintained and engineered, overheating shouldn't be part of a planned cycle of events in the life of your car. I grew up in "Da' South" where it gets BLAZING hot. We had a few little Toyotas that we beat to death hauling lumber scraps, railroad ties, trailers, and whatever else we had to haul with them. Despite the intense heat and probably hauling way more than they were intended to, we never overheated a single engine. That's not to say we really took great care of them either.

The statement about" Toyota knows that nobody uses their trucks for work" is kind of ignorant. Look at it this way: The only parts of the globe that buys things like F-150's and other large domestic trucks is North America- in particular, Canada, the US, and some in Mexico. Have you ever watched a nature program being filmed in Sudan, South Africa, or some other desolate, inhospitable, hot place? Why they're using Toyota Land Cruisers. Just try and take a F-150 or an Explorer for that matter out in the African bush. Does it strike anyone as ironic that while many U.S. truck drivers assume that the ONLY way they can get work done is with a BIG honkin' truck, the MAJORITY of the globe uses smaller trucks? We have some of the best freeways in the world. Many of these countries using Japanese trucks to do " real" work have absolute poor road conditions. The argument that Toyota only makes make-believe trucks for pleasure is ridiculous. Perhaps it is Americans who are ignorant enough to think that they really need a Ford f-250 Dually with heated seats to haul a cement mixer. Yeah right.

Now you can keep right on coming back and saying." b-b-but Cast iron will not warp" all day long. But the truth of the matter is that a vast majority of Toyota trucks, used for " real" work will have absolutely no problems using that block nor will they likely overheat.

"So far, the ONLY argument made against Toyotas has been that they use aluminum engines"

Have you read the other Tundra reviews and comments??

If you had you would see brake problems, suspension failures, engine noise, camshaft failures, flimsy construction details, just to name a few... If you had seen the other reviews, there is no way you could make your comment in good faith. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have not.

If you do take a look at the other reviews documenting all the problems people are having with their Tundras, and feel like coming back to this thread and explaining what you saw, and if you still think Tundra's are so superior, I would be interested to hear your thoughts based on this new knowledge.

--Quote-- "17:27 Well, once again, you are completely wrong. 'No facts..blah, blah'... there are about 1000 comments on this site giving the mechanical facts behind it. I don't feel the need to restate them."--

If you are going to just keep saying "I don't feel the need to restate them" or "I shouldn't have to restate them" or whatever, then quit posting comments. Maybe you shouldn't "feel the need" to respond, unless you can actually state any of these alleged "facts".

--Quote-- "Here's a fact for you: I'd be embarrassed to drive a Ford, and wouldn't trade my much better made Tacoma for six new Fords. That's a fact."--

It's a fact that this is YOUR OPINION or viewpoint.

Here's a fact for you, no one cares whether you'd be embarrassed to drive a Ford or not, and it makes a poor argument... as usual. How is your being embarrassed to drive a Ford any kind of a response in a debate between a Ford being heavier duty than a Tundra? What is this? A last ditch effort to make an argument by hurting our feelings?

Who cares? What if I'd be embarrassed to drive a Tacoma, would that really bother you?

--Quote-- "Here's the deal: unless you're driving a very large V-8 or larger; aluminum blocks are more beneficial than cast iron. Of course, cast iron is more durable, but aluminum will hold up just as long and just as well for your average car and small, midsize, and even light fullsize truck. Aluminum blocks are obviously much lighter in weight, so you get the benefit of much better performance and gas mileage. There is no valid reason why any vehicle the size of a half ton truck or smaller should have a cast iron block. It gives you absolutely no benefits of any kind over aluminum, and adds useless weight and hampers performance."--

Correction, there's no need for a half ton Tundra to have a cast-iron engine because no one really does anything with a Tundra to need the cast iron engine. There are actually people out there that use 1/2 ton domestics for heavy pulling and those cast-irons mean everything, especially if over-heating occurs, or they intend to keep the engine for 30 years like people do with their Custom Deluxes, RAMs, and F-150 or F-100 Rangers and such.

10:57, you may be right about what you've said about the Japanese providing more jobs over here than the domestics, but to me, you have to look at the whole picture.

I do not like the idea of our corporations out-sourcing, and they should not have ever shut down any factories, just to give the labor to other countries. GM and Ford have indeed brought some of this negative publicity on themselves by doing that.

But the bigger picture is that, if the Japanese take over the car industry, that means that they have defeated the United States as the dominant auto-maker. That means that THEY are providing US with our jobs and THEY are OUR BOSS!!! I don't like this idea. I think they've always wanted to take us over, and instead of attacking us, they just out-do us.

It makes me sick to my stomach when I see a review by a pro-import driver who expresses joy in watching their country's legendary auto-makers, with their long history of building our country's strength and greatness over the past 100 years, just diminish. Does it really give you pleasure to watch another country kick your butt? Does it give you pleasure to have to serve the Japanese and let them be the hand that feeds you?

If our auto-makers are the dominant manufacturers, then our country is the dominant automobile manufacturer in the world. We are doing good things for other countries. It is our country that is providing lesser countries jobs (though this should NEVER be done by out-sourcing, but instead expanding) and saving the lives of other companies. Look what Ford did for Jaguar (used to have electrical problems) and Volvo (used to be very crude). Look what GM did for Daewoo and Isuzu (both almost went extinct). I don't know about you, but I like our country being in the lead in the race and that makes me proud. I don't get patriotic pride at the idea of the Japanese owning me.

If I have to choose between fattening the pocket of a Japanese CEO or an American CEO (through buying their product or working for them) I'll choose the American CEO. At least the CEO is a fellow American and not some guy from another country.

The progress and profit that Honda of America, Toyota American Motors, and whoever else is still being sent back to Japan or Korea at our expense and by our efforts. The laborers of the U.S. are making the economies of Japan and Korea richer and more prosperous. They benefit from being our boss.

Also, I don't own a house, so I'm not to blame for foreign countries owning our debts; and when I do get a house, I hope I get a modest one that is owned by an American Bank.

Please explain then why there were 7 times more F Series sold than Tundras last year in America?

On job sites you will see F250's diesel primarily with 4wd carrying tools, equipment towing trailers. Unless you are towing a horse trailer etc, I do not see dual wheels.

If you are out in the African bush sure you can be out in Range Rovers, Hummers etc. but Ford has the market segment covered with a much broader range of vehicles in the pick up market and has for many years.

I tow a large boat every weekend in extremely hot bumper to bumper traffic... if I had a Tundra I would have to rent a slip. I have yet to hear how an aluminum engine is better than a diesel. I guess I should watch nature films and see how I can work this to my advantage in America.

10:50's comment brightened my day. I forgot about the Land Cruisers and such that go about Africa riding along with Elephants and have no mechanical issues. Good point!

22:07,

Again- the argument over whether buying an American brand product versus a foreign brand is almost archaic and nonsensical. As anyone can see by simply flipping open the hood of their Ford or Chevy, a vast majority of those components came from overseas or made entirely in other countries to start with.

It's called capitalism. Ever shop at Wal-Mart? Aren't they supposed to be the "All-American" store for the US? Funny how over 90% of the merchandise they sell is from China. Indeed- we as a country are NOT a manufacturing country any longer. When we talk about large corporations like GM, Toyota, IBM, Boeing, GE, and so forth, we're no longer talking about a singular, insulated national company with benevolent leaders like Henry Ford. Instead we're talking about Multi-national corporations that employ hundreds of thousands of workers all over the world.

You might find it interesting that Bob Lutz, the vice chairman of GM, has worked for BMW, Ford, GM, and Chrysler. He is a swiss-born 72 year old man who in my opinion understands global product development and cooperation very well. I have a lot of respect for him and believe he will eventually turn GM around and help them build better cars. But if you look at what they are doing, they're doing like many multi-national companies. They utilize a treasure chest of suppliers, manufacturing facilities, and branches internationally. GM is one of the best selling brands in China. They develop, build, and sell cars there. That's why some of Chevrolet's engines are now being shipped from China.

The same with Boeing. Roughly 30% of their planes are made in Japan. Other components come from US, European, and Canadian companies. The result is that they can build a better, more efficient, cost-effective plane. Ever heard of the "Dreamliner"? that's the sort of plane we're talking about.

At the same time, Japanese, European, and other US companies do the same thing. They employee the very best companies regardless of national origin to develop superior products. GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler ALL do the same thing. I fail to see the difference between a Japanese workers making parts for an American plane and US workers making parts for a Japanese car. In both cases, the workers of both companies can go home to their families with money in their pockets. We all win this way. If your problem is simply that they're Japanese, then that has nothing to do with business. Nationalism is not useful in modern economics.

So if you don't like the idea of international capitalism and still believe in the old-fashioned myth that buying American is really American, with visions of US workers driving rivets and welding steel, then unfortunately you're behind the times. To me the brand and national origins of a product is more about who makes it, what kind of quality the product is, and what value it represents to me as a consumer. If I choose to buy cheap, I go to Wal Mart. If I want a high quality car, I buy Toyotas. If GM or Ford starts making vehicles I feel are competent enough to hold up as well as my Tacoma, I'll buy GM. The benefit to the modern consumer is the ability to choose from amongst the best made products. This is how capitalism works.

Lastly, the cast-iron sleeves in an engine as being held up to argue for the superiority of a solid cast iron engine is not really a point. Take apart your lawn mower. The block is aluminum and the sleeve is iron. Why? Because the aluminum will run cooler and at the same time will be lightweight. In a car, if you have a lightweight engine with a cast iron sleeve, you get the same wear characteristics of iron with the fuel savings of aluminum. This is nothing new.

20:54 Wrong again. And again. I guess you personally know all Tundra owners and can verify what they haul and don't haul. Give me a break. What's even funnier than that is your statement about keeping a Ford as a work truck for 30 years. 30 months maybe. Since I can't provide any facts that satisfy you unless it involves saying how Ford is better, let's see if you can answer some of my questions:

1. Why did my one and only Ford, a Ranger, run less than 4 years before I had engine, transmission, AND rear differential trouble twice?

2. How do you explain the fact that I'm on my third Toyota, and NOT ONE of them has EVER!! needed a single repair? Did I just get the one bad Ranger in the world and lucked out THREE times in a row with the Toyota's? I hope you won't resort to that explanation.

3. Why does practically EVERYONE I know feel the same way I do about how much better their Toyota's have performed than the Ford's they've owned? I can't wait to read this one.

I can ride a jeep out in the bush... but I need a capable truck in America. I have a full size domestic.

22:22 There's no Ford that will take abuse like a Toyota. These Ford guys think that when they haul a rowboat or 4 sheets of plywood and the truck doesn't blow up (yet), that means it's 'tough'.

Maybe Ford HAS to use a cast iron block because their engine design sucks so bad they can't make one work with aluminum. That cast iron block will never warp. Not even after the pistons, rings, heads, rods, and transmission blows up and wears out after 110,000 miles, and the Toyota with the aluminum block is still running for another 200,000 beyond that.

Are these Land Cruisers pulling 10,000lbs trailers as they cross Africa? Or are they just fluttering across with no load in the back? (As usual)

I think what it all boils down to is that there's quite a few patriotic folks on this board who are frustrated that certain Japanese automakers are making inroads on "Our turf"

As someone who grew up in a very rural area where everyone drove A: Chevy's and B: Fords and now lives in a metropolitan area where virtually 65% of all the cars are imports, I can tell you from what I'm observing that different parts of the country have vastly different vehicle preferences. By far the best selling cars in my area are Japanese cars. A close second would be European cars. If you look at that mixup, obviously reliability isn't the most pressing concern for people these days. VW's, Mercedes, and BMW have less than perfect reliability ratings. In fact, some are actually below Kia, Hyundai and all the domestic brands by a good margin. So if it isn't reliability, then why are people buying these cars?

The answer is that they are appealing. Think about it. GM produces the Chevy Cobalt, which at introduction was supposed to be a Honda Civic fighter. No way. The car is boring, bulbous looking and "econocar" in every respect. You rarely see anyone my age driving them. Meanwhile the new Civic has a much more appealing design.

Simply put, Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Honda, and Toyota (with their Scion brand) are much more on target in delivering cars that appeal to a broad consumer base. What's more important is that they appeal to people living in metropolitan, heavy population centers which are filled with young people like myself. Sure- Chevys and Buicks sell great in rural areas and to families with litters of kids and so forth, but if you're a large corporation, you need to consider all target demographics. Hence Toyota makes a boring yet reliable family sedan (Camry) and smaller, upbeat sporty cars (Scion). They're hitting the marks.

What GM and Ford need is to step away from the safety zones and start making cars that are more appealing and original. These days it is way more than just making a reliable acceptable car. You have to reach out and make cars that are extraordinary. I feel that GM in particular has come a long way. But I still see their products as being just a hair too old hat. Step up to the plate.

More likely you will see a Grady White on the back of my domestic. I guess you can tow a rowboat or 4 sheets of plywood... again what's your comment again on the superiority of the import aluminum engine to the strength, performance, carrying and towing performance to Ford Diesel pickups that I see in numbers every day? I see only one Tundra in the morning getting small quantities of contractor supplies/materials... one.

19:26 Yeah, they're 'fluttering' through 115 degree heat, jungle climates, and sand dunes that would make a Ford or Chevy overheat and lose it's transmission after about 2 hours. If you want something that might possibly get you to the grocery store on paved roads without blowing up, take your chances with a Ford. Leave the real off roading and exploring to the Toyota's. Ford 'Explorer', ha ha; 'exploring' the service garage over and over again.

If the mfrs. load/tow rating exceeds recommendations (Toyota Tundra) do you buy a Tundra anyway? I would not like to jeopardize lived by not following mfrs specifications seems foolhardy and a severe liability. Ford has a vehicle strong enough... I would suspect with Arizona's steady 110 degree plus heat this month each day it may certainly simulate the African plains.