2007 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

13:48 I'm fairly sure living in Arizona and Africa are two different things. Of course there are some F-150 owners on here who probably live in Arizona, in the middle of the desert, and haul 18,000 pounds of molten lead in the beds of their trucks uphill both ways to work every day.

Let's go the other direction with the climate thing. I lived in SC, and went home to PA around Christmas last year to visit family. With the wind chill, at night, it was 20 degrees below zero. In morning, when I left, my Tacoma was the only vehicle of three that would start. My sister's Blazer, which was in the garage was frozen solid and wouldn't turn over. Neither would my brother in law's brand new Silverado. Just another example of many where a Toyota will perform under harsh conditions and the domestics won't. I let it warm up for a couple of minutes and drove it 600 miles back home. My sister traded the Blazer in for an import this past summer. Oh, and it was 6 years old and still worth about a thousand less than my 10 year old Tacoma on trade in. I wonder why that is.

We really don't care about your vehicle starting in 20 degrees below zero. So what? I supposed every single domestic in a 50 mile radius wouldn't start either? My 78 Chevy starts regardless of the temperature, it just takes forever to warm up in the winter.

These exaggerations such as "your domestic transmission would fall apart in two hours" or "your domestic pulls 18,000 pounds of molten lead" just show your zealous hatred of American products, along with corny humor.

In your next comment, just answer something very simple without any of your rhetoric. Have you ever pulled 12,000 pounds with your Toyota? Have you ever hauled 1000 pounds to 4000 pounds with your Toyota's bed? Yes or No? Make all the exaggerations you want (a trillion pounds, a zillion pounds, or whatever). I have seen numerous domestics moving these numbers. Have you done this?

I don't care about Africa and I don't care about the Arctic circle. We never argued whether Toyota's were reliable or whether they'd start in the winter. No one has made that argument. The argument is, how is a Toyota a tougher structure when it has less metal in its frame? I can drop my radio remote-controlled monster truck from 10 feet in the air and not break it when it hits the ground. It's made of plastic. Is it tougher than a real-life truck, or is it lighter? Is your Tacoma tougher than a F-350, F-250, F-150, or is it lighter? For a thinner and lighter truck to be heavier duty than a heavy truck defies physics. I suppose an F-150 is tougher than a semi-truck because it's frame is smaller?

Thinner frame rails are not tougher than thicker frame rails. Thinner leaf springs cannot haul more than thicker leaf springs. Smaller control arms do not hold the front wheels on better than larger control arms.

Aluminum engines don't handle overheating better than cast-iron engines. I dare you to drain the anti-freeze and water out of your Tacoma and run the engine until it seizes and see if you can start it again. The 27 year old radiator in my C20 developed a hole in it in 2005 and I overheated the engine. It stalled and wouldn't start back up because it got so hot. I let the truck sit for 30 minutes and the engine fired right up and is still firing up in 2007. Nothing needed to be repaired, and I still haven't replaced anything on the engine with the exception of electrical components. Will you please try this before you make another comment?

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think any of us really argue whether Toyota has made reliable engines over the years. My old Honda Accord had a great aluminum engine. But just because Toyota makes reliable engines doesn't mean that Ford and Chevy don't. They can all make reliable engines without the Earth exploding, you know? Chevy 5.7 350's are incredible engines. They are extremely simple, yet very heavy duty. They are tuned like diesels so they put out peak torque at 2400 rpms. They will run with little or no problems for decades. You can pull things that go beyond the tow rating of the truck and the engine acts like it doesn't know the difference. They'll move loads idling up hills. Ford 4.2L V6 engines are very reliable engines that reach their peak torque at 3700 rpms and give you 20 miles per gallon in a 5000 pound chassis. They start right up time after time and never hesitate to give you service.

When you post your next comment, will you please tell us some Toyota engines that you think or know to be some very solid and classic tried and true engines? Please don't mention the new 5.7L, it's not been around near long enough. This way we can have a little more of a discussion, instead of an angry cat fight. This would be more effective than your "Ford's are junk" and "One Toyota will last the life of two Ford's" rhetoric.

Here's some rhetoric I could say a thousand times: "One Ford will do the work of two Toyota's".

If you want to give examples of cold-weather starting, why not talk about someplace that is actually cold? I grew up in northern Wisconsin, and even after nights that hit 40 degrees below zero (that is NOT including wind chill -- the wind chill was 90 below zero), our '74 Dodge Monaco (400 cubic inch V-8) would still start after sitting in an open lean-to, exposed to the weather.

Well said 23:58,

The main point here is that the Toyota Tundra has not been around nearly long enough to prove that it's any good. (And the initial signs don't look good) You can't assume that this new truck is better than the domestic competition just because it's a Toyota.

Last question, how many 1985 Toyota pickup trucks do you see that are still around and running, and how many 1985 Chevy Silverado or F150 pickup trucks are still on the road? If Toyotas really do last forever like you say, how come I never see the ones that should still be around?

Simple answer over whether or not Toyota trucks will work as hard or harder than any Ford or Chevy is yes. The simple answer over whether or not a Toyota or more reliable on average than Ford or Chevy... the answer would be yes.

Just look up any number of consumer ratings and independent testing research and you'll see the numbers.

Lastly, I live in California and I see a TON of late 70's, early 80's toyotas still being used for serious work. Perhaps it is the fact that until recent history, places in the Midwest, South, and so forth were still fairly domestic-only minded. Trust me- I grew up in the South and even now the rules of the area are that you buy either Ford or Chevy. If you live in Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Kansas and claim you see few old Toyotas, its because Toyotas in the early, mid-80's were not very prevelant.

Most of those 1985 Ford or Chevrolet's have been restored... this is getting out of control... why I should buy a truck (GM, Ford) with a 49 percent customer satisfaction. You know what domestic lovers? You are in the minority for once!

My 5.7 liter LT1 was a pretty good engine, but it was costly because of stupid things like Opti-spark...I think we had thousands of dollars into it and then the rod started to knock at 125,000 miles. We traded it on a Honda Accord; not for performance, but for reliability and economy.

00:07 I believe we've already covered this. How many trucks did Toyota sell in the US in '85? How many did GM sell? That's why you see a FEW '85 GM trucks around (probably rebuilt 3 times), GM sold millions more trucks in the '80's than Toyota did. That's the only reason you see more of them. Now that Toyota sells more Tacoma's and such, in 15 years you'll see way more of those still running than any GM truck of the same year.

I found this interesting, if you say Toyota's are so well designed and built, then explain this.

"Remember when Toyota advertised by showing a Toyota owner standing by their Toyota saying 'My Toyota has 250/300,000 miles on it with no engine repair.' In my experience as an auto shop teacher and mechanic, I think that about 20 years ago Toyota made the decision to make their engines wear out sooner so they could sell more cars and make more money on repairs. They made sure the engine would wear out sooner by mounting the oil filter horizontal or upside down and above the crankshaft. The oil runs out of the center of the oil filter and back into the oil pan when the engine sits over night. Now when the engine starts in the morning the oil filter has to be pumped full before the engine bearings get oil so the bearings run dry and wear out. The camshaft and rod bearings are damaged first.

I can hear the rods knocking on my 2004 Sienna for 3 to 4 seconds when it starts in the morning. I cured this problem by mounting the oil filter below the crankshaft with adapters and stainless steel oil lines. This 3.3 liter engine is used on many other Toyota’s. The new 4 liter Tacoma’s has the oil filter mounted completely upside down. About 90% of Toyota engines for the last 20 years have the oil filter mounted so the engine will slowly destroy its self.

Will Toyota fix these engines when they start to go bad, or will they blame the customer like they are doing to 2000 to 2004 Sienna’s whose engines sludge up and blow up on almost new cars? In 2000 Toyota engineers decided they could get better gas mileage, more power, and less emissions by limiting the flow of water to the heads on 3 liter engines used in Sienna’s and Camry’s. The heads ran hotter which could help these three things, but the heads were so hot that it cooked the oil to a thick goop. When this goop/sludge gets down to the oil pump screen it plugs the screen and the engine will blow up on new cars with 30 and 40,000 miles.

Toyota claimed it was the customers fault for not changing the oil often enough. When customers would prove that they had the oil change every 3,000 miles then Toyota said they were still at fault for not using a Toyota oil and filter. Toyota keeps saying that their oil filters are better, but when I cut apart a Toyota filter it has exactly the same back flow valves and bypass valves as all the other name brand oil filters. When customers who could prove that Toyota had changed the oil and filter at the Toyota recommended intervals, Toyota changed a few engines, which blew up 30,000 miles later. Even if Toyota replaces a few engines (which then go bad) there are millions of customers who pay for the repair themselves or sell the car thus loosing millions of dollars. This is a rip off of the consumer. Toyota produced a bad design.

They are trying to fix some engines by following a new service bulletin which says to replace the valve cover with one that has a better veneration system, cleaning out the oil pan, and oil pump screen. Toyota should fess up and get the word out to the public that they will fix the engine completely when it goes bad and that until then everyone must use synthetic oil, which is not affected by the extreme heat. Do we need to stop buying Toyotas to get them to be honest?"

A complaint against Toyota along with the many on this site.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Wow! You people are rough on each other. Lets deal in true facts not one vehicle sold in this country is made from parts made from this country alone (NONE). Toyota has good vehicles and bad vehicles and so do the domestic brands. The media has been playing with the consumers heads for years about gas mileage and the consumer hears Toyota on a commercial and thinks its better than chocolate without any investigating into the other brands that are not talked about.

Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have all dug their holes by paying CEO's and top management much more than they are worth and not listening to the consumer (Something Toyota has been doing for years). I own two Ford's both have there place Ford F-250 (work and play) and Ford Fusion (wife and kid).

Toyota makes a nice truck, but if you look at the label 25%

of the parts are made in China, 10% in Japan, 15% in Canada, 30% in USA, and the other 20% are not listed. I think I will stick with the Domestic models at least 75%-85% are still made in USA.

It still boils down to greed in this country and in the end CREED will ruin this county.

Oh sure- Toyota INTENTIONALLY decided to engineer engines that self-destruct? The fact that my family has had no less than 7 Toyota cars and trucks, of which had various designs involving oil filters either upside down or right side up, either above or below the camshaft, and which none have had any major problems other than a bad wheel bearing in an 88' 4runner, and a bad brake caliper in a 98' Avalon is cross-sectional real-life proof that NO - Toyota doesn't, nor has ever designed engines to self-destruct.

All you need to do is compare the amount of recalls both Ford and GM have had in the last 10 years, and compare the numbers to Toyota or Honda. Sure - ALL cars companies have had recalls... But if we're comparing recalls... Ford and GM win hands down in that game.

I think the real issue here is that Toyota gained a sterling reputation of reliability via good engineering - engineering based on manufacturing techniques suggested to US automakers by independent American industrialists and rejected, yet adopted by Japanese firms. The fact that companies like Toyota based their engineering and manufacturing output via more intelligent, efficient models meant they produced and still produce higher quality products.

I find it interesting that while Ford or GM might have to recall MILLIONS of cars and trucks, if either Toyota or Honda have even ONE, the anti-import go crazy and put these up as 'proof' of how bad Toyotas and Hondas are. Ironic because even they know the truth, and are don't like to admit it.

I think one more thing that can't be denied is that Toyota and Nissan pretty much KILLED the US small and mid-sized truck segment. The Colorado and it's sibling models are pretty much jokes that sell in small numbers. The Ranger is going to be discontinued this upcoming year. It hasn't been updated since 1993.Embarrassing.

So what it boils down to is this: We can argue all day long about what company builds a better product. But in the end, if consumers buy the cars and trucks they like and companies like GM and Ford don't listen, then they'll lose another market just like they lost the small truck market.

The only restored part of my Chevy C20 is certain parts of the sheet-metal. The original was never washed, waxed, or cared for. The truck was used to haul tobacco, hay, wood, rocks, fertilizer, or whatever else. The drivetrain is ALL original, everything from the engine to the wheel hub assemblies. It was not babied and it was used to move multiple tons.

I still haven't seen anyone stating that they've pulled 12,000 pounds with their Toyota, or hauled 1000 or more pounds with it. I guess I can assume that no one does. So what are these serious loads that these tiny little Toyota's, that are all over the place in California, moving? Lawnmowers or couches? Oh maybe a refrigerator if you're feeling crazy! I would imagine that none of those Toyota's have a ton in the back of them, or at least let's hope not. Good luck stopping.

It is literally impossible for a 70's or 80's model Toyota to do "serious" work. The Toyota's today lack enough metal, but the old ones were ridiculously scrawny. They were Corolla's with beds. How in the world could they possibly move or haul anything huge? Maybe your definition of "serious work" is a little more liberal than other peoples.

Ford and Chevy have a niche with small pickups today. The Tacoma, Dakota, and Frontier have all grown to nearly full-size trucks, but the Ranger and Colorado are still actually small and efficient. The Ranger has not been redesigned for a decade or more because the design is working for Ford. If it were so awful, they would be redesigning it over and over. Also, I see Rangers all over the place and they are a very popular fleet vehicle, which would be a good enough reason to keep them in production.

21:48 That's your major complaint about Toyota? The position of the oil filter? There is no problem with it.

Their world famous 22re is the best example. I've owned two of them, but a good friend of mine's truck is the best example: it is an '89 Toyota truck.

First off, those engines, from that era, had 135 hp at probably 5 grand. The point is, you run them hard all the time to move the truck. My friend put a suspension lift and 33" tires on this truck almost as soon as he bought it used in '91 or somewhere around there.

On a DAILY basis, after work or school, we piled in this truck and drove it through a muddy limestone quarry, all hills and rocks; the truck rarely shut off after 3:00 in the afternoon. We ran it like a racecar, with absolutely no regard for rpm's or anything else.

He NEVER changed oil to my knowledge. When it finally began to tap, every year or so maybe, he'd dump some more in. We revved it through the mud, pulled trees out with it, or tried to; we drove it like it was stolen EVERY day. Finally, somewhere around 2000 or so, we rolled it again (not the first time), and it was totalled.

I should mention that there were two Toyota's out that day, and we still flipped this one back over and drove it home. At this point, the odometer had long since stopped working; no one knows how many miles were on it, but a conservative estimate is 350,000. Easily. Could have been a lot more. Someone he knows actually bought it privately, and, as of a couple of years ago, it was STILL running and had the original engine, never opened up, and same transmission and gears. Believe me, I'm grossly editing all of the things we put this truck through just for the sake of the length of this comment. It NEVER quit running.

So as for you argument about the oil filters; forget it. This kid probably never even saw his to know what position it was in. Someone trying to tell me that a Ranger or an S-10, or ANYTHING else would have lived through this will hear me laugh in their face.

I could go on about my '93 Tercel that I could not destroy no matter how hard I tried, but I won't. Or my '95 truck (abused almost as bad). Or my '98 Tacoma that I drive today. I take care of this one, but I know from many experiences that I really don't have to. I'm just a lot older now and a lot more cautious.

I will probably still be driving this Tacoma when the brand new Fords and Chevy's on the sales lots are in the junkyard. That's how good Toyota's are.

"of the parts are made in China, 10% in Japan, 15% in Canada, 30% in USA, and the other 20% are not listed. I think I will stick with the Domestic models at least 75%-85% are still made in USA."

You're totally wrong on those numbers: Roughly 70% of all Tacomas are made from parts produced in the U.S. with the rest coming from Japan. The bulk of the parts are made by Denso USA in plants throughout TN and KY as well as TX, and IN. The Tacoma is manufactured in Fremont CA called NUMI (National United Manufacturing Inc.) This was the same plant that used to make Geo Prizms for GM.

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