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Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60, 61-75, 76-89
22:04 The point is valid; and the point is, the engine in a 20 year old Toyota is a better engine than anything the Big 3 (what a joke) have yet to come up with. A 20 year old 22RE engine in a 1988 Toyota truck is a more efficient, higher quality engine than anything in a brand spanking new Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or anything else for that matter other than Honda. If the Big 3 expect to be taken seriously, they need to take some cues from Toyota and Honda, and for the first time ever put some serious time and effort into designing good engines and drivetrains.
Yes, you might get lucky enough to get a Ford truck to go to 250,000 miles. Doubtful, but let's say it happens. The same size Toyota engine will go 100,000 more than that, getting 10 or 15 miles per gallon better than the Ford the whole time.
It's a matter of design and efficiency. Rev an old Ford up to 4 grand. Do the same with an old Toyota with the same size engine. The Ford will sound like it's ready to blow up at any second and the Toyota will sound like a tightly built, proper engine.
As far as the rest of the truck, Toyota wins hands down. Anybody who has a good amount of offroad experience knows for a fact that a Toyota will hold together when anything else falls apart years sooner under the same treatment.
To 22:04:
Show me a 20 year old Toy engine, or even just a modern toy engine, that can match the performance and economy of a LS3 or LS7. GM has many more advanced engines. If you really think that those engines they put in Cadillacs these days couldn't hold a candle to 20 year old Toy engines, then I don't know what to tell you.
GM has invented more than Toy and Honda combined.
GM was making hybrids before Toyota was building the Prius. Not cars, no, but Diesel Hybrid buses.
16;06 Yes, GM and Ford were at the cutting edge 70 years ago. Not anymore; not for the last 30 years. Proof of it is that Ford turned to Toyota for help making hybrid cars. And yes, a 20 year old Toyota engine is a more efficient, longer lasting engine for it's size than anything in a Cadillac or any other 'domestic' (which now apparently means made in Mexico) car.
Toyota and Honda are responsible for most of TODAY'S technology in automobiles. The domestics have been trying to play catchup since the early 80's and are failing miserably. Granted, they are taking forward steps, but Toyota takes 3 to their every one.
GM and Ford will never catch up. Too little too late. They should have worried about making quality cars and trucks back when they were the only game in town, and maybe they wouldn't be in such sad shape now.
16:20 so your arguments are off road based, and then revving the engine as to why you buy a truck... which you could even buy a 4x4 SUV, a Jeep or a very little 4 wheeler on a trailer to ride in the woods; even a dirt bike.
I bought a new truck for 100% function first... to fully utilize its 8 foot 3/4 ton capacity bed, not a light bouncy 1/2 ton bed... also to tow a large heavy boat up a slick ramp, and drive to and from the shore in heavy traffic with plenty of interior room for a family.
Maybe some families ride in the woods all day and go to dealerships with that pursuit in mind... I see the long bed, hitch, frame strength otherwise I see buying a car to use. And actually I own both.
You need to weigh every component on a truck, not focus entirely on a motor alone, although the new domestic motor and warranty is superior as long as that topic is brought up. Especially the diesels!
16:20 poses any interesting comment. Trucks experience an even harder life than cars. If you carry loads and tow with a goal of 250,000-300,000 miles in mind what will the actual mechanical repairs as well as frame rot and paint rustissues cost to get there on a new 2008 full size truck? In the 60's detergent oils came out and have progressively improved ever since which can be attributed to longer engine life. The metal parts are less likely to grind internally. 100-150,000 miles is not uncommon whatsoever today its expected and 200,000 is not uncommon. I have a friend with an older Silverado the majority of his usage is large weekly commutes on interstates with 220,000 miles same drivetrain. I just bought yet another GM a G20 high top conversion van also with the 350V8 and have already communicated with other individuals with equivalent mileage durability with my latest vehicle type. These vehicles typically have an easy life unless towing large trailers. Mine has been from Delaware to Florida and back many times. My import experience however meaning (new cars I owned) with smaller higher revving engines cannot tolerate any mistep of maintenance especially stretching oil changes. Over 100,000 miles a lot of very expensive maintenance comes out timing belts, water pumps, front end and suspension components, a/c.electrical issues while the vehicle. If you add up all the repair parts on imports to attain high mileage it might not be worth it in my opinion. If you want an import maybe a Hyundai, Kia and Mitsubishi with a 10 year drivetrain warranty even Chrysker announced a lifetime limited power train warranty. And keep them a long time. If Toyota are so outstanding I do not understand why anyone owning one shrugs off the lesser warranty saying they do need one. Why not? I believe in not advertising less than the competition. The consumers pay or trade in and buy another to keep sales up in my opinion. The import hype is strong when something fails buy another which I actually have done, but no more. I am not letting the manufacturer off the hook. There are some great used car buys on second or third vehicles due to the depressed economy and gas but I will always have a new full size truck with a warranty in place.
It seems that some owning new imports skirt this fact just as much and then pound other makes. At any rate this is a full size truck review and I wonder how many 2008 owners plan on using their truck as its intended to go 250,000-300,000 miles? At 100,000 miles my domestics is up and I will buy a newer latest technology version likely the high mpg hybrid.
16;12 Well, most of that is opinion, so I can't argue with it, but you are surely dead wrong on one point: any domestic engine, new or old, is not in the same league as a Toyota engine, new or old. Sorry.. not so. The warranty is longer, that's true. Too bad you'll actually need it with the domestic and you can just drive the Toyota and probably never worry about it.
19:12 agreeing with above domestic commenter, however that is the complete opposite of their own import comment. What's that about?
In addition, Toyotas being more American than the big 3 because of a commercial they simply watched on TV? I think the power of advertising and it's influence is clearly evident by this import commenter and the import hype attached. Sorry I do not accept hype.
Get out there behind the wheel and test drive several new import/domestic trucks with a list of expectations that will not be deviated from, and buy on your own, not from hype or from salespeople. Evaluate negative reviews to be informed, but at least get out there and test first hand and evaluate your own driving opinion. It's your money and you owe itself to you to not buy on hype.
I test drove and had a list of expectations. I fully compared first hand new many full size trucks, and now drive a new Silverado.
12:14 -- Ford did not get help from Toyota in developing its hybrids, nor did it buy Toyota parts to build them. Ford and Toyota simply cross-licensed some of their hybrid vehicle technology patents. It would be just as fair to say that Toyota uses Ford technology in their hybrids as it is to say that Ford uses Toyota technology.
8:11 Wrong. Ford engineers consulted engineers at Toyota about hybrid technology. Toyota would not need to stoop low enough to use any Ford parts or ideas.
14:20 Well, as a proud Toyota owner, I don't accept hype either. Like, 'Ford Tough'. I drive them and decide. I've owned them all. The Fords and GM's proved themselves to be junk over and over again. The 3 Toyota's have never needed a dime in repairs. End of story. Telling a story about bad Toyota's and good domestics that you've owned doesn't change things. It's the opposite in reality.
Even Consumer Reports now refers to Toyota as having "uncharacteristic lapses" in quality. That's putting it very mildly. No domestic truck has ever had the number of problems that Toyota has had with the Tundra, Camry and Highlander.
8:08 what is better a "probably OK" former out of warranty import warranty at 51,000 miles directly out of your own pocket... or a written mechanical warranty at 99,999 with one mile left with a new domestic covered by the manufacturer?
If the import engine is so superior why half? If it's never needed and absolute pure perfection ,what does the import manufacturer have to lose? Quit skirting this... it's half the warranty.
What's with the sludging and Tundra engine recalls... shouldn't be any at all based on your comments. If domestics have an issue then the warranty is there... try that at 60,000 miles on your import; oops you do not need any warranty... quite a few have had opposite surprises; go peruse the Consumer Affairs site.
"18th Feb 2008, 14:09
8:11 Wrong. Ford engineers consulted engineers at Toyota about hybrid technology. Toyota would not need to stoop low enough to use any Ford parts or ideas."
Maybe that attitude explains why Toyota quality is dropping like a stone. They have become arrogant and insular, based on success in the 1990's. Meanwhile, Ford learned a lot through their ownership of Land Rover, Jaguar, and Volvo.
Also, there is no "Ford" part. Ford does the design and assembly, but contracts out for parts.
14:14 what are the years of your domestics and imports you have owned? Any in the past 5 years?
06:19: I've driven, but not owned several newer models of Toyota and various domestics. Nothing has changed. Toyota still beats them hands down.
I don't need to own a new domestic to know that they're junk. I see the problems other people have had with theirs.
A good friend of mine traded off an '07 Dodge Ram because he got tired of all of the downtime with recalls; SIX of them I believe. Three times for seat belts and airbags, some problem or another with the wheel bearings that Dodge said could potentially cause the wheel to fall OFF the truck, and there were a couple others.
Their 2 year old Dodge car (can't remember the model), failed inspection because it needed about $900 dollars in work on the suspension in the front end. It had 30,000 miles and is his wife's daily driver. All highway miles and the front end fell apart in two years. That one got traded too.
Now he has a brand new F-150. An '08. It had hesitation problems in the acceleration from day one and Ford can't seem to fix it. Not to mention he bought it to tow a camper; the tow rating is 10,000 lbs, his camper, loaded, weighs under 8000, and the truck can barely handle it. The engine screams, it overheats and will barely pull up the hills. How long before the engine or transmission blow up on that one? Not long.
And he knows how to pull a camper. He's not trying to run in overdrive. I'm talking about 55 or 60 on the highway. Ford claims he's trying to pull too much with it, yet they guaranteed that it would pull it the day he bought it. Another unhappy Ford owner who will be switching to a Tundra shortly. Not to mention the severe loss he took on trade-in with the Dodge car and truck.
Meanwhile, my uncle has an '05 Tacoma that he pulls a boat with; not a single issue. Another uncle of mine bought an '06 Corolla; runs perfectly with no issues.
My 10 year old Tacoma just turned 85,000 and short of changing fluids and putting gasoline in it, I've done nothing to it. And it gets a lot of off-road use, sometimes pretty rough.
I'm not buying another domestic. Not until they start making something that lasts like my Toyota does. Which means they'll have to basically change everything about them, inside and out, front to back.