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Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60, 61-75, 76-79
"The manufacturing quality was simply sub-par and not anything that you will find on the Toyota lot."
That's true. It's impossible to see the sludge inside the Camry engine, or the failed transmission in the Odyssey while it's sitting on the lot.
12:58... fit and finish is great I agree. But rather than merely walk around a used car lot, go to new dealerships and test drive the latest import/domestic pickups.
We could argue the weakness of the Tundra tailgate, lesser people capacity, handling, towing and carrying capacity as well as limited warranty. I would recommend drive the newest latest full size trucks and go with what performs, handles and rides the best. Drive 3 domestics and 3 imports and buy one; it's your money.
Pretty seats, cupholders and latches are great if that's your interest or go in with a comprehensive list of expectations and do not deviate from it.
My #1 need was strong towing capability and room for my family and then ride, performance warranty etc. Latches and paint jobs may have been far down my list and number 1 for you.
Test drive them hard and pick one is my best recommendation and commit to the best driver. I look at the bed, room and tow hitch, and if they are not needed, it simply equals a little economy car and no truck at all..............
15:57 I'm proud to drive a Toyota because I know I made a better decision in buying one than some garbage Ford or GM. I could not care less which country any of them are made in. And if you want to go down that road, do your research first. My Toyota is more 'domestic' than many new Fords and Chevy's are. Look into it.
12:58 was there a reason you would not drive your 200,000 mile plus archaic Toyota into the new new GM dealership to compare? I drove to new dealerships without hesitation; both import/domestic dealerships with checkbook in hand committed to the newest late model technology available and bought a 2008 Silverado. Go on a used lot and you can see repaints, body damage, paint chips, bed dents even shopping cart damage especially on pickups domestic or import... go look at 2008 full size pickups and then drive them extensively before knocking ones you haven't owned for 8-9 years. Many of us have and own late models, not the same old 90's import tirade.
I have to agree. It's excellent. Toyotas recall of their early pickups, Campaign Vo6, happened. But they honored it... Many a new motor was installed. Many of those trucks are still on the road. There are countless forums, just for those pickups, mainly the SR5S. These older trucks are respected for their Quality. The recall was for faulty head gaskets. They rectified it, & many of these, thousands,??? are still on the road,& get sold quickly, when they come to market.
16:16 as a full size truck commenter I am interested in what you are so specifically proud about? My so called garbage GM handles better, carries more in both people. loads better towing, better warranty... it's a truck, how is your truck better than these comments?
I strongly suspect my diesel pickup is more durable, better warranty and the ride is much better than any Toyota I have driven.
Are your comments off road based with the springy ride? You indicate that a gas engine is more durable than diesel? Go to a building supply any morning where are the Tundras? Commuting on the interstate?
My 2004 Silverado I traded at 80,000 miles only tires, brakes and fluid changes and it towed and hauled real loads. How much weight do you carry or tow on a routine basis? Fill us in as I would like to see how hard your engine/trans works besides on dirt.
Let's face it. Few people ever drive ANY vehicle more than 100,000 miles these days except for companies. Our family's two companies use domestics (vans and trucks) only and often drive them 300,000 miles, but for personal use nowadays we seldom ever keep a vehicle for more than 100,000 miles. It just makes no sense to keep a vehicle much longer than that. We want new technology and safety features and newer styling.
In the past, when finances were tighter, our family did keep cars for 200,000 miles or more. Almost all of them were domestics and we never had any problem with any of them.
When I see these comments about a Japanese vehicle being "better", I can't fathom HOW it could be better. If NONE of our domestics ever had a problem, how do you get "better" than that?? Do Japanese vehicles miraculously grow new accessories?? I'd love to see a definition of just HOW a vehicle can be "better" than one that has absolutely ZERO problems. My one Dodge truck and 4 Ford trucks never had one single problem, so just how can you get "better" than perfect??
11;01 The Toyota is still better because it's built better. The build quality is on a higher level than a Ford or Dodge ever was. And it'll get better gas mileage every time.
Besides, if you actually had domestics that didn't give you any trouble, then you are extremely lucky.
The new superior Chevrolet Tahoe hybrid gets better city mileage than the Camry. It is the the 2008 Green Vehicle of the year. The new Silverado is also slated for the same drivetrain and better warranty.
"27th Feb 2008, 05:54.
Besides, if you actually had domestics that didn't give you any trouble, then you are extremely lucky."
I guess I was also extremely lucky in having a dozen domestic cars from the 1970's to 1990's that went over 200,000 miles with nothing required other than routine maintenance and fluid changes. But Japanese is better, right? Yeah, right. They weren't better then, and my 2002 Ford says that they certainly aren't better now.
If any vehicle has NO problems, it is silly to say Toyota (or any other brand) is better. That makes no sense at all.
5:54 You may have been lucky as well with your old Toyota, but that's no guarantee you will not have major mechanical issues as many other late model model import owners have had lately. Including myself and have switched to domestics.
With a business especially it's more than just luck. Full size trucks get used and mileage accumulates rapidly with full loads and towing on a regular basis. Maybe you have been lucky so far, but at some point your newer one(some day perhaps) may experience the complete opposite and it does happen.
The site is full and so is consumeraffairs.com, clearly indicating this concern that imports have had more issues than ever.
My old ones never had the amount of trouble and what's that all about with new ones? I'll take the full size trucks and better warranty with domestics.
With me the odds are definitely in favor of the domestics. In over 40 years of driving I've driven about 35 or 40 domestics altogether (I've lost count now).
Not one of them that was bought new ever had a problem other than such routine items as hoses, belts and that sort of thing. Never, not once, have I had to replace an engine or transmission, or even have any repairs on them. Some were driven over 250,000-300,000 miles.
During that time we also had 4 imports (Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Mazda) NOT ONE of them ever made it to 100,000 miles without problems (very major problems in the case of the Volkswagen, Honda and Mazda).
Now if you are "lucky" to get a good domestic I must be the luckiest human on Earth. Out of 30 or so none had any problems. On the other hand, all 4 imports broke down repeatedly and were anything but reliable. What are the odds I'd get 3 bad imports and 30 good domestics if imports are so good and domestics so bad.
As for trucks, the domestics are so far ahead of anything made by any Japanese company that it is a joke to even compare them. Japanese companies make little toys. The big three make real trucks.
Japanese cars are better built and last longer. You can't skirt around that fact with any amount of talk. Let's say your rattle trap Ford never has any problems (not likely) but lets say it doesn't. And you have a BMW that also has no problems. Fine. Does that mean the Ford is as good a car as the BMW?
A Toyota is a much better built car, and despite all these stories, Toyota's of course are MUCH more likely to run flawlessly than any Ford. That's just the way things work in reality. Which is why the domestics are going downhill fast and Toyota keeps gaining and passing them; people don't want to drive junk anymore now that there are better choices.
Despite the 6 guys on this site who keep writing in about switching over to domestics from imports, that's not what's actually happening in this country. People are tired of Fords and GMs that break down, and are buying Toyotas and Hondas, and seeing how much better they are.
18th Feb 2008, 14:09: Where did you get your facts? One of my previous jobs was on the Ford hybrid program, so I have a pretty good handle on what happened during the development of that system. Ford did not consult Toyota engineers in designing its hybrid system. The engineering work was done before the Ford and Toyota lawyers sat down to work out a cross-licensing agreement that gave each company access to some of the other company's hybrid patents.