2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

Anyone that owns a Toyota or Honda wish to comment on 20:08's comment? Did not think so... I am certain I would not pick any Honda or any Toyota..... even 1 out of 3 not happening,

"In the 1070's, Toyota and Honda began selling cars in the United States that were so much better built than any American product that people immediately took notice and started buying them. Through the 80's, 90's, and right up until this day, more and more people are leaving the Big 3 and buying foreign cars, because they last longer, run better, have less trouble... many reasons."

Sorry, but this is just not true. You make it seem that Japanese cars appeared on our shores one day and took the country by storm. The actual case is that the Japanese cars that appeared in the 1970's were slow, unreliable, poorly running junk. However, they were cheap, and in the age of the Arab Oil Embargo when people were giving away their GTO's, they got better mileage than the Big 3's V-8's.

Japanese cars did eventually become more reliable, although they have always been nothing more than bland appliances, and their main selling point has always been better fuel economy.

It may be true that Japanese cars were better poised in the 1980's to increase market share, because they had greater experience with smaller engines, while US auto makers were trying to play catch-up with 4- and 6-cylinders and shift away from 8-cylinders due to increased emission standards.

By 2000, US cars were fully caught up and have now exceeded the quality of Japanese cars. True, market competition was good, and forced the US companies to make a better product. The Japanese cars have never had the appeal as anything more than basic transportation, and have always been without a soul.

Hopefully the US auto makers will survive the next 18 months of downturn, and people will start to discover that American cars are superior again.

One of the main arguments the Toyota fans have used is that declining sales indicate "crappy" quality. Well, the June sales figures are in. GM sales dropped by 18.2%. Toyota sales dropped by 21.4%. Now we have some positive proof that Toyota is "crapper" than GM.

I test drove a 2008 Tundra... 2008 Silverado has it beat handling, room, comfort, load capability, towing and warranty. And looks too.

I agree, talk 2008 only either way, and very shortly 2009's. And small trucks, old trucks and small cars have zero relevance on a full size truck review.

Just to clear a few things up. First Toyota came to the US in the Sixties, not the 70's.

Second to the people who keep saying Toyota only produces small appliance vehicles that are no fun to drive. It is very clear that you have never driven any of the Toyota Supras. Before someone says they don't make them anymore, yes they do. They just are not sold in the US, but you can still buy one and have it shipped over. Which is a better deal anyway, as the ones in Japan have more horse power and higher top end.

Third to the people who keep saying that old Toyotas will never be worth as much as their (insert old car name). I would like to mention a few Old Toyotas that have really held there value.

The 1967-1970 Toyota 2000gt, which sold new for less than $7000 and now you will not be able to get one for less than $200,000.

How about the the 1960's Toyota FJ & BJ -40s (BJ were 4x4), which sold new for less than $5000, and good luck finding one for less than $20,000 that doesn't need a lot of work. One with matching numbers and in good shape will start around $60,000.

Another thing on this topic; not all Fords, GMs, and Dodges will become top dollar collectors cars. Actually very few of them do, yeah there are some Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, and others that are worth a good amount, but it really depends on the year and extras that are purchased. Just ask all the people that have the mid-70's Corvettes with the smaller engine, or all the people with the smaller engine Camaros.

I suspect that of the nearly 180 comments, of which there probably would have been perhaps 4 or 5 overall, is due to a single Tacoma owner calling domestics crap and attacking the big 3.

On the other hand, there seems to be a far greater majority that prefer full size domestics. There are GM, Ford and Chrysler owners that have apparently found more functional features, benefits and warranty.

If you read through the comments, the domestic owners also have highly detailed lucid comments. No comments such as "I said so and that's all there is to it" "The big 3 is garbage" "Plain and simple that's how it is" All comments based on ownership of a small truck over 10 years ago.

I'd say read all the former detailed comments and the vagueness of the import small truck owner. Its easy to identify the same individual over and over. I doubt there is a single individual that can knock every single model from 1 manufacturer, let alone 3 with first hand expertise. And over 10 years ago? Technology does not stand still my friend.

12:54: Having owned many now quite rare domestic muscle cars, I still cannot see where your crystal ball comes from. I thought I knew and if I only knew.

Barrett Jackson had a big effect on escalting values. It's dipped a bit, but still very high to own or even rebuy what I had. Values were going through the stratosphere.

Due to the rapid escalation of literally hundreds of various domestic musclecars, many in the 6 figures or higher, it has trickled down to even basic trim models once overlooked. Go price even a 6 cylinder Camaro, Mustang, Tempest or small block V8 Mopar (pre 1971 coupes ragtops) in the most spartan bare bones trim. My best buy was a 1963 Split Window Corvette, ironically bought during the long gas lines odd/ even era to buy gas during 70's. People panicked and foolishly traded them in. Best $2600 I ever spent. Everywhere I went, and with other great domestics, I had notes always appeared under the windshields in parking lots asking to sell and I made a lot of money. When I sold I recouped what I paid, upkeep and even all the insurance spent, especially with convertibles I bought. But I bought the right ones.

I also was able to afford more expensive muscle cars due to flipping them. All my vehicles were drivers and not over-restored or trailer queens.

I see the high gas as a great time in 2008 to buy some used high end vehicles. My cousin just picked up a 2002 Ram V10 Pickup for $9k to tow his enclosed race car trailer. He drives to Nogales Mexico fills at $2.25 gallon while his wife shops downtown. He still has a smaller weekday vehicle, yet has a great weekend vehicle that performs.

I feel sorry for those that panic and trade great vehicles and end up with what I consider crap. My cousins truck was traded due to gas and he is already doing performance upgrades adding a chip,K & N filter. Better than some small teeny truck cramped, uncomfortable, underpowered, not as safe in an accident.

I spoke with someone that owns a Prius and they said they care absolutely nothing about cars. But the mileage is high. I like driving too much to ever get that way.

Last comment is don't knock small blocks. I would love to grab up a LT1 Vette while still affordable and keep til I retire. And I do not see how you consider a 327/375 hp as underpowered. But a 427 I agree is better. My oldest son with a Viper is amazed that people come up and ask what mpg he gets? And it amazingly happens a lot.

Take away all this fuel scare and people could have a lot more as far as drivability and fun. Our family is able to travel and have fun vs. being cramped and arguing on trips.

I have to agree with comment 14:04. I think most of the comments are prompted by the anger generated by the very biased and anti-domestic industry rants of one person. It has gone on for several years.

Originally, this commenter said he had "owned a Ranger" and it was "crap". Lately it has become "I've owned ALL of the big three and they are all crap".

I will not go so far or be so rude as to call this individual untruthful (as he has done too many of us) but I am a bit suspicious.

I tend to post lots of comments myself because I am angered by people who attack American industry, especially at a time when maintaining our economy is of such great importance. To root for the destruction of American jobs should make all of us angry, and should make us think twice about how (and where) we spend our money.

I know that I cannot, in good conscious, spend $20,000-$40,000 on a car built by a company based in another country anymore. GM and Ford both have build quality higher than the imports, and the Tundra (the subject of this review) can by no stretch of the imagination be considered competition for any full-sized domestic truck.

The fact that GM sales dipped less than Toyota sales in June is a very encouraging sign. Americans don't seem to realize the importance of our major industries and their impact on all of our lives. It has been said in the past (and rightly so) that "what is good for GM is good for the country". The converse of that is also true: What is BAD for GM (or Ford or Chrysler) is also BAD for the country.

I am sure that the Tacoma owner is a good person and sincere in his beliefs. I just fail to see how one can spout so much venom toward vehicles they have not owned (new trucks, the subject of this review). I also am sure that this person does not intend harm or ill will to anyone, but rather is simply not fully aware of the dire consequences of the loss of our major industries.

On this holiday when we celebrate a very special date in our country's history, I want ALL Americans to feel proud of their country and to support our country. This means not attacking industries that provide incomes for millions of Americans to put food on the tables for their families and pay their mortgages or rents. If one chooses to drive an import, our freedom gives its blessing to that choice. But to wantonly and unjustly attack an industry that currently produces vehicles on a par with any in the world is uncalled for.

18:01 No. The domestics never caught up in quality to most imported vehicles. Certainly not Japanese ones, and without a doubt not with Toyota or Honda. It didn't magically happen in the year 2000. Not sure why you'd pull that year out of thin air to back up your opinions, but they made crap in 1999, in 2001, and it continues today.

Another guy made a point in reference to my comment, and he was right. No, Japanese automobiles didn't take the country by storm when they first arrived here. What DID happen is that they consistently offered a far superior product to anything GM, Ford, or Dodge made, and slowly gained the trust and acceptance of this fact by American automobile owners.

The rest of you can continue to buy Fords because they claim to be 'Ford Tough', or if you actually believe that 'Quality is Job 1' at Ford motor company. Those of us that do the research buy Toyota's and Honda's when we're looking for a car, or small through 3/4 ton truck, based on Toyota's proven quality and reliability, which does in fact exceed the domestics.

11:29 I'm an American too, and gladly. I never claimed that I wanted to see American industry of any kind fail. Too bad it already has.

If I'm 'spouting venom' at the Big 3, it's because they don't care enough to make vehicles of the same quality as the imports I've owned. They should be embarrassed as a whole at the kind of cars and trucks they made through the 80's and 90's, which were just an embarrassment next to what Toyota and Honda were and are offering.

Yeah, they've improved a little. Not because they care about making an American product that can stand up to Toy./Honda; they only began to improve slightly when THEIR wallets started getting a little thinner.

This country as a whole loves to tell the rest of the world how we are the only superpower and how much better we are than everyone else. Fine. Put a domestic car, any one at all, next to a Camry, Corolla, or Accord, Civic. The difference in quality is embarrassing. We have the same technology they do. If you want me to buy an American car from an 'American' company, I'll be glad to. Just as soon as they care enough to make vehicles with the same level of quality that the Japanese do.

I'm far from rich, so when I spend my money on something, it's going to be on the best product I can find for the money I have to spend. When GM and Ford are willing to start making something worth my money, I'll gladly buy it.

Ford's best rated car ever isn't even built here. The Fusion is assembled in Mexico. Chevy's attempt at finally entering the compact car market was noble, but the Aveo is made in Korea, same as the Hyundai I just bought.

What do you expect me to do? I did my research before I bought. I read many reviews that compared new compacts; the Aveo, the Accent, the Yaris, the Fit, the Versa... the Aveo was ranked dead LAST in every review. And it's made in Korea. So... would you expect me to buy an 'American' car, made in Korea, that was at the bottom of every review I read? Sorry, I have a little more sense than that.

If I'd wanted to spend another 3 or 4 thousand, I'd have bought the Honda, which was at the top of every review. GM and Ford will have to do better than this to earn my money.

Wow I did not know Toyota offered a 3/4 ton truck in America... must be more magic.

Any comments on ConsumerAffairs.com on the great Toyotas offered lately? It's like saying as a kid Johnny down the street did a worse thing and its not my fault. Gets tiring same tirade over and over.

Acknowledge others import issues; we owned ones until recently ourselves. And it's not isolated or one car. I flatly disagree with you; I see import quality dropping significant enough for me to express it here. Why do I care? Its anonymous on here, absolutely nothing to gain. But I was burned and upset on my last new ones.

8:37 You see the high gas prices in 2008 as a great time huh? If I said what I wanted to say here, this comment wouldn't even get anywhere close to being posted. I'm nearly speechless. Just incredible.

"3rd Jul 2008, 14:04"

I will have to disagree with you, going back and looking at the post it would appear that domestic lovers started questioning the motives of the original reviewer. Same as most of the long post on the Toyota and Honda pages. I don't understand the need to come onto someones review of a vehicle and say they must be biased because you don't like the brand of vehicle. I see this a lot on the import pages and very few on the domestic pages. Of course anytime someone post a negative comment on the domestic side, it never takes long for someone to say they are really an import lover who is just trying to destroy the good name of that company.

I also have to disagree with you on the post, it seems that most of the post have no real data being offer from both the domestics and import owners. You only see it as great post from the domestic owners because you are biased against the imports. As an unbiased towards any brand, I buy what I like and what gives me the most bang for the buck. I never buy just one brand and on brand only they all make some good vehicle and some garage queens.

When it comes to the number of post by one person it is easy to spot the same person over and over again but this doesn't just happen with import owners. Go look up the Ford Fusion owner that swears he bought a Camry and traded it in within months of buying it. He is all over the Toyota pages talking about how bad Toyotas are and not always does he say he owned a Camry. He is quite easy to spot due to his use of the same phrases and sentence patterns. Sometimes he even responses to himself to agree with what he said in the post about, to make it appear that more people agree with him. The only problem is that if you look at the time on the post you can clearly tell that no one would have read the post that he responded to, as they are only a few minutes to hours a part, and wouldn't have been posted to the board yet.

To the guy talking about the price on old cars rising on the small engine models. Yes they will go up, as it gets hard and more expensive to get the true collector cars but they always drop back down. These are great cars to flip. Think about the 1974 Pontiac Trans Am, when the 400s became hard to get and more expensive, people who still wanted the look moved on to buying the 350s and in-line 6s. Which caused their prices to rise and also caused the price of the 400s to come back down. As soon as the 400s became affordable, to most people, the price on the in-line 6 dropped and the 350 settled back to were it should be.

I will agree with you on the Viper, if you are looking for a good investment on a car that will be come one of the true collector cars, this is it. Right now you can get a used Viper with less than 20k miles for less than 30k, which is great for a car that originally cost 80k, in 20 years these cars will be hard to find and you will wish you had one.

Remember there is a big difference in true collector cars and a flash in the pan hot at the moment car. The true collector cars will always be worth something. Don't believe me, just look at the 60's Bug that saw a huge leap in price in the mid to late 90's, just to drop back down in price when the craze ended. You can get one now for less than 3k.

Vehicle quality is such a subjective matter that to maintain that ANY car is "better quality" than another requires a lot of purely subjective reasoning.

Most people regard Mercedes as one of the "best" brands based on the fact that they cost a lot. One of our best friends just bought a Mercedes and was raving about its "high quality". The exact model they bought has a "much worse than average" reliability rating. In fact, virtually ALL models of Mercedes are rated either "worse than average" or "MUCH worse than average". The subject of this review, the Tundra, has a "MUCH worse than average" reliability rating. The new Silverado is rated as a "Recommended buy".

Although most magazines are biased in favor of some models, overall the ratings seem to match real world experience. Another good friend just bought a very nice used 2003 Tundra because the owner could no longer deal with the 9-14 miles per gallon fuel mileage. I sincerely hope he has good luck with the truck, but real world experience seems to argue against it.

Well said 11:29.

I do get quite upset with the "Tacoma Guy," I'll call him, because I do not think he realizes the gravity of what he is saying. Having the American auto industry self destruct would be absolutely devastating to the country. To have him be routing it on is extremely sad, and I cannot help but think, a sign of the times. My grandparents and people of their generation would have never engaged in such talk.

I am no fan of Japanese cars. But, that does not mean I would want to see the Japanese auto industry (in their country) collapse, because it would be devastating to the Japanese people. Yet, the Tacoma guy gleefully wants to see it happen to his OWN country. I simply cannot understand or relate to such a mentality, and yes, am genuinely upset by it.

This is all on top of the fact that as far as the quality of the respective vehicles is concerned, you cannot convince me that Japanese cars (especially Toyota) are superior. Toyota quality is and has been in a free fall, which to claim is not happening, you have to either be disingenuous or blind.

I have multiple friends who have been terribly damaged financially by the horrendous quality problems with their Toyota's, which they delusionally thought would be the answer to all their automotive worries. Of course you could not even attempt to tell them were making a mistake when they were buying them. They sounded like the Tacoma Guy.

While the Tacoma Guy vehemently bashes domestics, mine have always been 100% faithful, the exact antithesis of how he attempts to characterize them. I will not run through the vehicle-by-vehicle list, because I have already done it on previous posts. But, I can hold my head up high while I am driving my vehicles, which I would not be able to do if I were driving an import.

I do not expect the Tacoma Guy to understand what I am talking about in that regard, but he might start to appreciate it a lot more if the American auto industry does in fact collapse. He'll be ruing the day he ever bought his Tacoma.