2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

I love our GM black SUV, especially the comfort, ride and great warranty as well. I would buy another in a "heartbeat".

My wifes first new domestic since college and she and the kids love it.

11:51 "now the 210's are collector cars"

Please provide proof to support that statement or admit that it is just your own opinion, thank you. And do not try to say that because the Toyota 2000 GT (a very expensive car that hardly anybody ever saw even when it was new because so few were ever imported) is now a collectible car, a run of the mill econobox from the same country is now also collectible. Nobody is going to buy that argument.

To comment 15:56: Nothing was said about "selling your old car and buying a smaller one". The point being made was that smaller cars get better mileage REGARDLESS of how far they're driven.

It does NOT make any sense to basically give away a perfectly good vehicle because of "mileage panic". My wife drives a GMC Envoy that gets 24 mpg on the highway. It's fast, comfortable, trouble-free and like new. She plans to drive it another 150,000 miles before getting another car, BUT when she does, it will be a smaller, more fuel-efficient one. I own a new Mustang, but it sits in the garage a lot because I drive a 4-cylinder compact to save on gas.

11:51 has to be the most flawed comments I have ever read. Indicating maybe a couple Toyota collectible models in a narrow 3 year window, Did you buy and save yours?

There are thousands of collectible domestics that individuals have bought. I have bought (and sold) many that cost between 3K and $4500 new commanding 6 figures now. If they now dropped 15-20K it's a hardship that you have to live with. But the indication is they are going back up. Documented cars and ones with racing heritage are bringing the big bucks.

I think you are comparing new cars and appreciation in the future. That's so subjective. I personally like the new Challenger but would not buy the first year out as it is an automatic.

You have a tough argument for those that bought Boss Mustangs, Camaro Z28's, Challenger RT's for openers and my friend that bought a AAR Cuda that needed a trans for $500 in the early 80's. Look up the value of his abysmal investment in 2008. I'd love to be complaining that I sold other examples in 2008 for $800K instead of a million that cost me under 10K to buy at the time by the way.

How many collectible Toyotas are you sitting on that were commonplace? I wish I bought more late 60's early 70's domestics during the 80's; what an investment they have been! And you get to drive and enjoy them instead of boring rides.

A Caddy Northstar V-8 getting better mileage than a 4 cylinder car. If you get out and push it around, or maybe if you idle it consistently downhill for a tankful of gas; otherwise, forget it. Not even in the ballpark.

In 2008, and with the price of gasoline, putting a V-8 in ANY car is just plain stupid. There should be a government regulation on these kind of asinine cars.

And as far as the domestic, foreign debate continues to rage on here, the answer is even more obvious. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have ALWAYS made better cars than any domestic. If you choose to say otherwise, or refuse to admit that, you're only kidding yourself.

Why do I keep hearing about some miracle Ford Ranger in a magazine with 400-some thousand miles on it? WHO CARES? Do you people know how many old Civics and Tercels are running around with that many or more miles on them? Apparently not. While 300,000 plus miles may be a major accomplishment for Ford, it's routine for a Honda or Toyota engine that's received just basic maintenance.

Oh so we should let the government who likes to run our lives tell us even more so by what kind of car we can drive.

I love when people say these Hondas and Toyotas run this many miles and domestics cannot. I see way more old domestics, (especially the work trucks around), than any import.

Yes, I am also one of these "lucky" domestic owners as you would consider me. I had a 1991 Ford F-150 that I beat on with 260k. Same engine and tranny.

Toyotas and Hondas with 300,000+ miles are far more rare than domestics with that many miles. Just look at all the companies that use domestic trucks and keep them for a decade or more. I work with contractors who have full-size Ford and Chevy trucks that date back to 1987 and are still in use. Please cite real information, not just a biased opinion. We've asked repeatedly for hard data and gotten nothing but opinion. That doesn't make an argument.

I live out in the SF Bay Area, and let me tell you that Datsun 210 are EXTREMELY popular with the tuner boys these days. The reason is because you can shove a massive engine in the engine bay and have a very fast, small car.

The other thing to consider is that Japanese cars were not sold in large numbers in the US until the late 70's, early 80's, and even then, they only made up less than 20% of the market. A lot of those early Toyotas and Hondas from the 60's are much less common than the American brands.

Its also important to remember that cars become collectible simply because the people who buy them probably drove them when they were kids. Most who collect old cars are older to start with. So what do you think is going to happen now that my generation, who grew up driving Toyotas and Nissans going to collect? Not Mustangs and Cameros because we have no attachment to them. It'll be Celicas, 280Z's, and 210's. Time change. So do tastes in cars.

"18th Aug 2008, 20:54

A Caddy Northstar V-8 getting better mileage than a 4 cylinder car. If you get out and push it around, or maybe if you idle it consistently downhill for a tankful of gas; otherwise, forget it. Not even in the ballpark."

Oh? The 4-cylinder Dodge Caliber is rated 29 highway, as is the Toyota Solara, and the Chrysler 5.7 L is rated 27 highway, not to mention that Caddy Northstar that gets 27 highway. 27 certainly seems to be in the same ballpark as 29.

20:54 buying a 4 cylinder does not guarantee better mpg. Having V8's myself now and being meticulous keeping them tuned is better than someone that may not keep their 4 cylinder likewise or drives as a rocket racer light to light. I have seen the ones with the f*** pipe with blue smoke bad rings.

The new hybrid V8 Tahoe gets great mpg better than many Camry models. What's the difference if you have the same net result?

I had Honda 3.2 VTEC's that burned only 93 octane myself and wasn't any more thrifty. Start adding in $300 bulbs etc. and what defines thrift?

Actually a Northstar engine does get pretty good gas mileage. It gets about the same as my V6, why? Simple the engine has to do less work. And when it accelerates it purrs, not sound like a knocking lawnmower.

My mom had a 2.5 4cl Altima and it got about the same mileage as my car and probably less hwy. Every body talks about their Civic and Corrolla mpg, but they forget that these cars weigh about as much as a go-kart, and until recently had puny engines.

Case and point. My mom's Corolla weighs 2400lb and has an 105hp/100ft/lb engine, and my car weighs 3600lb and has an 205hp/230ft/lb engine. I average about 20mpg city and 31mpg hwy. I don't know what her city average is, but the EPA estimate is 23mpg and she gets about 35/36hwy driving. My car weighs 1200lb more than hers. If you look at the weight ratio vs fuel economy, the big V8s that get 28mpg or V6s that get 31mpg aren't really inefficient. I'll take the slightly less gas mileage knowing that I'm much safer if I get into an accident. Have you every seen one of these cars in an accident? It's not pretty.

The new V-8 Tahoe Hybrid will not get better gas mileage than any Camry, nor will it last as long because GM made it.

A Northstar caddy will not get 31 mpg either, no matter how you drive it.

The glaring irony here is that when that Cadillac is getting decent gas mileage, it's running on (guess how many), FOUR cylinders, which is all you need in any car unless it's a big, bloated, over-weight boat like a Cadillac is. I'd love to know what the gas mileage is when all 8 cylinders are firing to move that beast uphill. Probably about 12. Only when it becomes a four cylinder do you get decent mileage.

How much room do you need in a car?? It shouldn't have to feel like a couch. Stay home if you want that experience. Cars are transportation. Just think if even 75% of licensed drivers were all driving four cylinder cars. How many fewer stops at the gas station. How much less fuel we would use as a nation. And inevitably, oil companies would have no choice but to drop prices severely. Simple economics.

Some guy on here told me his v-8 was efficient because his drive to work is short. It's thinking like that that is one of the reasons that we have $4 a gallon gas.

And another thing; you are not safer in any instance in a larger vehicle, unless it's a bus or a tank. That's just a fact; SUV's being the worst of the bunch when it comes to getting hurt badly in a traffic accident. You are not safer in a Cadillac than you are in a Corolla, and you are much LESS safe in a Tahoe than a Corolla. Also a fact; despite some weird example you may have where somebody in a small car got killed and the guy in the SUV lived, that is the opposite of the norm.

SO... in closing: v-8's do NOT get better gas mileage than 4 cylinder cars, and larger cars and SUV's are not safer than smaller ones.

That's a good point about accidents. Smaller cars just crush like beer cans. A magazine I was reading featured a picture of a Ford explorer that had literally driven THROUGH a Honda Civic. The Civic was barely recognizable, while the Explorer didn't even have a broken windshield. Naturally everyone in the Explorer walked away unhurt.

As for 4-cylinder engines, I don't think they sound all that bad, actually. My 4-cylinder twin-cam Grand Am with slight modifications and a custom cold-air induction system actually sounds great, especially under full-throttle acceleration when you can really hear the air intake whooshing. I've owned my last V-8 because of fuel costs and concern for the environment. Both our new car and our SUV are 6's, and they perform extremely well while still getting good mileage. The SUV is faster and has more horsepower than any V-8 in its class. Of course every car we own is a domestic because of the poor reliability of imports.

Wow, that $10K 210 guy just won't give up. Now we are to believe that 210's are worth that much because "tuners" buy them and stick bigger engines into them. This apparently makes them collectible, whereas other rwd Japanese sedans from that era like the Corolla, Cressida and even Nissan's other "10" models (510, 610, 710, 810) are not? And that "collectors" will eschew Mustangs and Camaros in favor of 210's?

The argument that small cars are less safe than large ones is inaccurate. I've seen freakish accidents where small cars basically demolished huge SUVs and vice versa. A man rear-ended my mom's Honda Civic last year with his Ford F-150. It totally crumpled up the front end of his truck, but left hardly any damage on my mom's car. She just had to have the plastic bumper shell replaced.

SUV's also have a tendency to roll over and lose traction easier due to a higher center of gravity. Most truck-based SUVS also have a rail frame that you see on trucks, which do not give as much in accidents, hence you're much more likely to suffer neck and whiplash related injuries versus most modern smaller cars and car-based SUVs which use crumple zones.