2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

The V-8 Tundra costs much more and gets far worse gas mileage than a full-size GMC, so I think those "quietly trading for something smaller and more fuel efficient" in a few years will most likely be Tundra owners who are tired of 12 miles per gallon and constant repairs. As for resale, the best large SUV on the market for resale is the Chevy Suburban. The Tundra-based Sequoia is one of the worst.

As for domestic truck owners being "good old boys", I prefer to think of them as "SMART old boys". My family's company has used 100% domestic trucks for decades because they are extremely solid and reliable. 300,000 miles is not uncommon for any of the Chevy, Dodge or Ford trucks. We still have a 1983 Chevy truck that was bought new in '83 still in service, and a contractor friend is still using an F-150 he bought new in '85.

Another friend is still driving a Dodge Ram that was bought in '85. All still run flawlessly.

I don't think you'll ever see a 25-year-old Tundra still in daily use. Not even the frames are rugged enough for that kind of reliability over time.

Let me try again, to 9/21/08 00:28.

Dodge is not worth mentioning any more huh? The 2009 Ram 1500 will be the Motor Trend truck of the year.

12:04 just because you feel you have a foreign badge on a vehicle is no guarantee of reliability or lower cost of ownership. The "good ole boy" comment is not necessary the case. I have owned a Mercedes, Acuras and a domestic full size loaded V8 pickup at the same time and parked in the same garage. I tow a large boat and there is no import truck available with the same capability. If I am being labeled as such, would that also pertain when I was out in my convertible import the same afternoon?

Some people have some specific application needs that a Tacoma, Tundra is not able to accomplish (at least safely) To buy a undersized import truck would perhaps sideskirt your incorrect labeling definition, but be foolhardy to jeopardize others with my towing requirements.

I now own domestics by the way and my repair costs have gone down since.

First of all, The 2008 GMC Sierra gets 13-18MPG. The 2008 Tundra? 13-18MPG. So the costs are exactly the same. Even if you drive one of the Chevy Yukon hybrids, which cost well over $50,000, the best you're going to get is around 20-22MPG, which considering the cost of gas might as well be 5MPG. Frankly, I'm not impressed with anything that gets anything under 30MPG, and even at that rating, the cost of fuel is significant.

I keep reading all these comments about how: " well... I owned an Acura, a Toyota, and a Honda, and boy- they all had problems and now I have " domestics" and none have any problems."

I can tell you for fact that my family has owned nothing but Toyotas and two Fords for the past 30 years. Out of all of those Toyotas, only one problem was had with a 4runner with a faulty wheel bearing. But the Fords were both sold within a few years after acquiring them because they BOTH has serious mechanical failures at rather low miles. We had a 1995 Ford F-150. Second gear went out at 65,000 miles. The other Ford, a 96 Ranger also had transmission problems along with issues with the rear brakes, the steering column actually coming loose, and countless electrical gremlins.

The fact is that pretty much anyone I know who owns either a Honda or a Toyota seldom if ever has any problems with them period. Secondly, I do have a classic American car and frequently go to the junk yard looking for parts. Guess whats the most common cars I see in those yards? Fords and Chevys. We're talking cars and trucks that aren't all that old with blown head gaskets and self-destructed transmissions.

There's one part of the yard I call "Ford Taurus row", because there are usually 15-20 of them sitting there with their hoods open with a white crusty sludge spewed all over the engine compartment - the tell-tale sign that the head gasket blew. Whats more, most of these have fairly low miles.

It's rare that I see US brand cars in the yard that have over 100,000 miles on them. The Japanese car section though is the smallest section. Most of the cars there are extremely old and with huge amounts of miles on the speedometers, as in 200,300, and even 500,000 miles. These cars tend to get junked once they've completely worn themselves out versus the countless American cars that had premature deaths.

Lastly, I see a LOT of 25 and 30 year old Toyota trucks on the road out here in California. Some of these are being used to haul huge stacks of pallets, engine parts, and debris from the nearby shipping yards. This was back when Toyota made nothing but tiny little trucks with no frills at all. It's just as likely that the trucks they make today will have the same if not longer survivability. My almost 14 year old Tacoma still looks brand-spanking new with zero problems. I see no reason why it, or the new Tundra will have any problem staying on the road for decades.

"The ironic thing about all of this, is that from what I still see, the majority of the folks out there who buy full size trucks are stereotypically what I'd call "good ole' boys" who regardless of whatever other choices exist out there will never-ever consider anything that doesn't have an American nameplate on it."

Wow. Way to stereotype domestic full size truck buyers, who's vehicles sell orders of magnitude more than any foreign so-called competition. Do we simple minded folks bitterly cling to our guns and religion while we are not playing dueling banjos on our front porches too?

I could make the same characterization about import buyers that you made about domestic buyers - that everyone who buys an import thinks America and its products stink, and would not even look at, much less consider any evidence to the contrary. But, I happen to not believe in stereotyping entire groups of people.

What might I ask by the way is wrong with being patriotic in one's buying decisions anyway?

Yes- I am an "import" owner. But I am also patriotic. That means as an American, I have free choice to make a decision regarding the product I buy.

My family owned lots of Fords and GM products over the years. My Uncle was a well respected Ford dealer who gave us deals on cars and trucks. But time and again, these cars and trucks gave us persistent problems, which for a family like mine - a middle class family with a sometimes unemployed Dad, it was prohibitively expensive. This was back in the 80's. Then Dad got the company car - a boring 85' Camry. The thing ran forever. We never had any problems. To us, having a car last 150-200,000 miles without a hitch was amazing. It saved us a lot of money and headache. My story is similar to a lot of Americans who got burned by inferior products.

To be fair, I think all US branded companies have made enormous improvements in their products. GM is probably one of my favorite companies. They have some great management there. Like Bob Lutz and his Chevy Volt program along with the new Malibu, which is perhaps one of the best family sedans out there. I'd be willing to give that car a try.

Then again, I rented a Pontiac two months ago on a trip. The interior was already showing severe wear. The engine made some funny sounds, like the belts were all loose and squealing.

I've also rented a Cobalt. I was equally unimpressed. Typical cookie-cutter plastic cheapness I remember back in the day in the 90's when the driving class car in high school was a 93' Corsica with a cheap plastic interior.

So the problem is that GM and Ford have to convince me that they actually make a good product. I know people with tons of miles on their Chevys. I also know an equal proportion where their Chevys dies premature deaths. Am I willing to bet on a hit and miss product? Well, I'm not made out of money, so no - I'm not.

That's the problem. Perception and actual quality. Until they make good on consistent quality, they are going to continue to have sales problems. It's as simple as that.

Great point 13:31. With our country in dire financial straits, buying from American companies makes a lot of sense, even if the products WEREN'T better (which they are).

I guess I can just sit on my front porch polishin' my gun, readin' my Bible and laughing myself silly as I watch my neighbor's new Camry hauled off to the shop on a flatbed for the third time in a month. He'll probably ask me to drive him down in my Ford to pick it up in a few days.

Well, I usually don't factor patriotism into my vehicle purchases. Seems a little pointless. I pay my taxes and contribute to the economy.

When I buy a vehicle, I look at their past examples, which is why I avoid Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. There are imports I'd stay clear of too, but Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and now Hyundai make better cars than the 'domestics' do. And Toyota makes better trucks.

I had many new Taurus and later Crown Vics as company cars and they were great. Started and stopped many times daily usually 200 miles minimum daily. I had a 4 state territory in the Northeast and experienced many bad winters. I never had a head gasket issue and kept them all 100,000 miles and got another.

Maybe you should come to south Philadelphia on junkyard row. There are acres of imports in the junkyards. One after another. I was there looking for a replacement round pedestal table for my Conversion Van and am certain you would have no problem whatsover finding row upon row of junked Toyota vehicles to wear out some major shoe leather walking past them all.

I have also found some vehicles can be super reliable a given year, and then just satisfactory 2 years later.

Having a 14 year old import is no guarantee that you would have less problems buying a 2009 by the way. My dad who keeps cars a long time had a 1974 Volkswagen bug he should have kept forever; much better reliability than the new ones, regardless of how expensive they became.

As stated earlier, I think patriotism has more to do with many of those who claim that their GM and Ford products are "better" than Toyotas and Hondas.

You can tell stories about an Uncle who owned a Chevette that ran for 300,000 miles or a 85' Taurus that never had a problem and ran 500,000 miles as proof. But the real proof is that Honda and Toyota didn't gain the reputation for reliability on pure gossip alone. They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago, and since then earned their reputation fair and square, through quality engineering, and intelligent product development. Those are the facts.

You cannot deny that Honda and Toyota build excellent products, and I also know that despite what you admit, also realize that they also build BETTER products than any of the big three.

Maybe Honda and Toyota make good products. Who knows? Makes no difference to me.

What I do know is that my 2002 Ford with 98,500 miles runs and drives just as well today as when it was new, and has never needed any repair.

I have done routine filter and fluid changes, and changed two turn signal bulbs. With reliability like that, why would I look elsewhere? Seriously, why?

I also know that my Ford was about $7,000 less than the comparable year and mileage Honda, Nissan, or Toyota models. Again, why would I pay $7,000 more for something that has no better reliability?

You may talk about "quality" but that's subjective. I'm happy with my Ford, saved 7 grand, and have never had the slightest problem with it. Can you seriously tell me that I'm missing out on something by not driving Japanese? No, you can't.

"They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago..."

Yes, and I think the people who sing praises about them do so because they always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, regarding imported products.

Moreover, I do deny that they are quality products, both from personal experience and the massive amount of complaints being lodged against them. Take a look at Consumer Affairs as an example:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestic vehicles have ever had an engine fail before 50,000, or ever failed period. That is not the case with Toyota.

A lot has been made of the fact that some GM dealerships are going out of business. Last week one of our largest ones folded. Then, this morning, the paper carried an article about one of our largest TOYOTA dealerships going out of business. This is pretty clear evidence that it is purely reasons of economics rather than any falsely perceived ideas of higher quality on the part of Toyota.

Nor can it be blamed on gas-guzzling vehicles, as Toyota only makes a handful (Sequoia, Tundra, and Land Cruiser). The economic woes we are facing will ultimately affect EVERYONE doing business here. Frankly, I hope to see MORE Toyota dealers close, as American companies need money more than Japan does.

I heartily agree with commenter 11:10. People who have never driven anything but imports refuse to acknowledge the high build quality, reliability and often superior handling of domestics.

I just read a review of a new Ford by a person who had never owned a domestic. He was raving about what an incredible car it is. I'm not at all surprised. The new Malibu, Fusion, Mustang, G8, Charger, Challenger, Camaro, CTS, Corvette, etc. are some of the finest cars on the planet.

As for trucks, Ford continues to hold the top spot with the best selling truck for 3 DECADES. GM and Dodge are also popular with businesses (including ours) that need reliable, heavy-duty trucks and vans. I doubt you'll see more than a handful of Tundras being used by businesses due to outrageous purchase prices and poor reliability.

Anyone that thinks that domestic cars and trucks are as good a quality as the products that Toyota or Honda makes needs to spend some time under the hoods of both. I have owned both domestic and Japanese brand vehicles. My Brother had a Ford Ranger. I have a Tacoma of the same vintage. Simply put, the overall fit, finish, machining, and construction of the Tacoma is superior in every way. Additionally, less care was made with the mechanical layout of the Ranger in regards to servicing it. For example, my Tacoma has a 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder 3rz-FE engine. His engine was a 2.3 liter OHC engine.

For starters, the engine in the Ranger was derived from an original ancient design dating back to 1974. It was used in the Pinto and over the years gradually updated. But besides the modern additions was an extremely old-fashioned and difficult to work on engine. Most of the bolts were painted black and over time corroded, making it impossible to disassemble. The wires, cables, and hoses were a mess. It made it impossible to get at components. It had 8 spark plugs located in odd places. One was in a recessed area that collected water, and subsequently froze the plug in the block. The engine used coolant and oil like mad. He had to fill up both around once a month. Lastly, the truck was SLOW, as in you would almost get clobbered in a freeway merge.

On the other hand, my Tacoma's engine was developed new for the Tacoma, and was far more modern. All bolts are aluminum, yellow anodized, or galvanized steel. None of them corrode, thus its easier to disassemble. The hoses, wiring, and cables are very neat, out of the way of the components, and lastly, there's less of them to deal with. The plugs are all on top, in a row, and easy to get to. If any parts are serviced, the casting and machining quality of the components are superior in every way over what my brother's truck was. The parts out of my Tacoma make the Ford's look crude. Lastly, this truck is FAST, peppy, and responsive. I've beat dudes in sports cars in this thing. It also gets amazing fuel economy.

The thing is that the engine was designed to be serviced very easily, with lots of consideration given to how easy things are to get at. I replaced the starter on mine 3 years ago. Took me 5 minutes and can be done standing up and reaching down through a space between the firewall and engine. Again - someone thought about how to make that procedure. The Ford's engine seemed to have been shoved in there without a thought in regards to service.

Working on my truck versus my Brother's is totally different. My Brother was a pain in the rear. Mine is almost a pleasure. What's more, I still have mine. His bit the dust years ago. Now I'm not one of those guys that claims that everything that Detroit makes is bad. But I have yet to see the level of care and quality manufacturing out of any of the big three yet. Until I do, I think I'd rather stick with what I know is a better crafted product.