2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

20:53 pretty vague when you say Ford... or Toyota. Tacoma and Tundra that's it. GM Silverados have far more capability in their extensive lineup, more towing capability, better load carrying, better handling, better ride, more room inside and better warranty.

I drove most of the new late models, and sorry Tundra is not as superior as my last 2 Silverados. I suspect this will invite a 17 year old Tacoma comment or an 80's Dodge comparison. At any rate I test drive and go over features and capabilities and then buy... I could compare motorcycles on here as far as irrelevance on drifting off late model full size trucks. We are discussing small cars, small trucks and even vans on this specific thread. Test drive some new full sizes and see where I am coming from. I bought from test driving and capabilities as well as better warranty. And the new GM full size trucks are great.

A "tired old argument" is one that offers no evidence or real proof. For a very long time we have asked repeatedly for PROOF of the statement of OPINION that "imports are better than domestics". Frequency of repair records are the ONLY proof, and we have seen none. Toyota saying "our cars are best", import owners saying "our cars are best" and magazine test drivers who drive a car for an hour and who say "This car is best" are ALL expressing OPINIONS. An OWNER who says "I've driven my Ford 300,000 miles with no trouble" is stating a FACT. It carries weight. A mechanic (and I AM one) who says "The structural members on a Honda are much flimsier than a Ford" is stating a FACT.

I've driven and worked on many cars and trucks. I've owned over 35 domestics, and my family and I (including my siblings) have owned 8 imports, including Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Volkswagen (that includes 2 Toyotas, 2 Mitsubishis and 2 Volkswagens). Personal experience indicated the most poorly built were Honda and Mazda. The best was Toyota.

However, none of the imports were as reliable or well built as ANY of the domestics. None of the imports were kept much beyond 100,000 miles (most didn't last that long). Many of the domestics, which included cars and trucks from all three domestic makers, made well over 200,000 miles. One made over 300,000. NONE of these cars ever required major engine or transmission repairs. The biggest repairs any ever required were starters (Ford and GM) and carburetors (on the older Fords). The Chryslers were virtually repair-free, and one Buick went 277,000 with virtually NOTHING done to it.

In looking back on nearly 40 years of owning and working on cars, there is no way I could say I feel an import (ANY import) is any more reliable than a domestic. I read a lot of comments saying "Newer domestics are better". As far as I'm concerned, the OLDER domestics did pretty good. The longest lasting car my family ever owned was a 1975 Ford that was sold at 325,000 miles. NO engines replaced, NO transmissions rebuilt. All we really did with it was DRIVE it.

As for the Tundra, the specs for the Tundra and Ford F-150 were offered up numerous times, showing how flimsy the Tundra was in comparison to the Ford. Apparently all that went right over the head of the import fan who has not driven a domestic in 17 years. True, the latest model Tundra DID beef up the frame a little (by COPYING Ford's design) but overall it is still a far cry from competitive with ANY domestic truck.

"one thing I know, that gets proven over and over again in reality, is that Toyota makes better and FAR more reliable vehicles than any so-called 'domestic' auto manufacturer. There proof is evident, it's there in reality, and the reviews and ratings reflect that truth."

How do you explain Toyota engines failing at low mileages on a widespread basis as documented by Consumer Affairs:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

It seems to me that this has been largely ignored by the automotive press. So, I do not think they reflect the truth.

Full size trucks are dinosaurs anyway. As I write this, both Ford and GM are bleeding money. There is even talk of possible bankruptcy or takeovers. This is largely to do with the insurmountable problems on Wall Street. But GM, Ford, and Chrysler were in trouble well before that. They focused too heavily on trucks and SUVS while ignoring their small cars and trucks. Let's face it. Cars from the 90's and early 2000's like the Cavalier, Corsica, Ranger, and S-10 were jokes. The big three commonly referred to these as "bottom feeders" because they made a tiny profit per unit. As a result, they were given the least development, the least amount of care in regards to quality, and changed them very little over the years.

Lately they've come out with some decent products. But the damage was already done. Honda and Toyota had an entire portfolio of high quality cars and trucks ranging from their smallest to largest vehicles. That GM and Ford were asleep at the wheel for too long is what has gotten them in such grave trouble, which is why they're slapping together Mazda/Fusions in Mexico, importing Astras from Germany, and slapping Chevy badges on Daewoos from Korea.

Who cares about full size trucks anymore. They're toast and so are the big three that make them.

The automotive press has NEVER really been objective. For that reason, you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when a domestic gets praise it is DEFINITELY due to genuine higher quality vehicles. When the Cadillac CTS gets awarded "Car of the Year" honors, you can be assured it is LEAGUES ahead of the competition. When the Corvette is favorably compared to the much less reliable Ferrari, you can be assured that it is MUCH better. And finally, when a Ford Fusion is the HIGHEST RATED car Consumer Reports has ever tested, you can know beyond any doubt that it is truly phenomenal (even Honda Accord owners are praising the Fusion).

ALL car makers are in big trouble now. Toyota sales are down 32%. Sales of domestics are much better in other areas of the world than they are in the U.S. (although the entire world auto market will most likely drop off more in the near future). There is absolutely NO valid evidence to support the myth that imports are better. It is a purely SUBJECTIVE opinion based on personal preference.

11:36 They reviewed 3 year old cars of all makes, one owner, and looked at the repair records of these cars, and how often they were in the garage in those 3 years. The FACT is that the Toyota's, Honda's, and Hyundai's were in the garage less, which obviously means they have less problems. What YOU state is opinion. These are facts.

18:43 Well, your opinion is in the extreme minority, because most experts rate the imports as being much higher quality. It's been that way for a long time, and still is today. Read JD Power's latest study.

And by the way, just because some starry-eyed Ford owner types here that his Ford has 300,000 miles doesn't make it true. It MIGHT be a fact; if we were talking about a Honda or a Toyota, it's much more likely to be true than if it were a Ford. In FACT, I just read a study, I honestly can't remember who did it, big it was a major name in the automotive industry, and they rated Honda first and Toyota second in a category that roughly said "cars most likely to get 250,000 miles or more".

My experience, and those of EVERY single other Toyota owner I have EVER known, is that switching from domestics to imports (Toy's specifically) was the best move we ever made when it comes to automobiles. They simply are put together better, with better materials, more care for quality control, and they run smoother, longer, and more efficiently with far less breakdowns than domestics.

For over 20 years the best selling vehicle in America has been a domestic full size truck. I am using mine a lot more since gas prices have come down.

As far as being dinosaurs, I have found that mine pays for itself with its usefulness... I remodeled my own homes, tow my boat vs. pay to have it in a slip or high and dry, moving, and hitting the antique auctions bringing furniture home. I cannot see not having such a useful vehicle and find it very practical to own.

I am not seeing the tremendous reliability on late model import cars; if anything average or less.

I suspect the stock market and other economic influences will be a factor in vehicle purchases. However I see the lowering of gas pricing, and those with 2 or more children to transport missing the room, comfort and space of SUV's and not be crammed into little sedans.

Gas is under $3 a gallon here, and my family likes to make trips together and get out. If you are 1 or 2 people or a solo long distance commuter, maybe small crammed imports are for you.

The same is for a full size truck. Once you have left small trucks you are sorely disappointed going downwards. I get in my truck without hesitation and it owes me nothing. What I do not like is spending $3-4K on low mileage repairs as I have with late model Japanese imports. You have a pretty strong opinion when you have first hand major mechanical issues, especially when you spent over 30 grand.

18:43 wasn't an OPINION. It was clearly stated facts. Then along comes 22:45 with clearly stated (and UNDOCUMENTED) OPINIONS. He "can't remember" who did a study he cites. He has also never met the challenge put forth earlier to DOCUMENT ONE SINGLE 500,000 mile Toyota or Honda still running with the original engine and transmission (and NOT rebuilt at that, and NOT a diesel truck).

This has been a familiar pattern with import fans. Offer tons of (unfounded) criticism of domestics, but offer no documented evidence to support their (unfounded) claims that imports are "better".

In a debate opinion NEVER matters. Facts DO. I'd love to see some FACTS (provided the commenter can remember AND CITE where he read them).

"Who cares about full size trucks anymore."

How about people who make a living with them for starters? Similarly, how about everyday people who save money working on their own homes/properties and tow heavy loads? How many 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall can you bring home in a Tacoma?

Do you suppose farmers who need a vehicle to deliver their crop might be interested in full size trucks? How about boat owners?

Do you think a Tacoma is going to move my 28 foot cabin cruiser? For that matter, do you think a Tundra could do it (without twisting itself out of shape and and having the engine warp in the middle of the trip that is)?

If one only needs their vehicle for moving five or six bags of mulch a year or driving to male manicures, yes, I agree a Tacoma would do just fine. But, if one has serious work to do, they need a serious truck, meaning a full sized domestic, the heavier duty the better.

Although I strongly support buying more fuel efficient vehicles (domestics only, as the U.S. needs the money), it makes no sense to give away a good SUV and go in debt for a car that gets better mileage.

My wife currently drives a mid-sized domestic SUV that gets 19mpg city and 24 hwy. It is paid for. To go in debt 30 grand for a hybrid that might get 10 mpg better mileage would make absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever.

If it follows our past experience with domestics, we should easily get another 220,000-250,000 miles out of our current SUV without any major repairs. We can save enough on the cost of a new vehicle to buy fuel for a decade.

09:24 Pointless argument. Toyota doesn't make anything as large as an F-350, so yes, your Ford or whatever has more towing capacity. If Toyota ever does decide to make a truck that large, it'll be better than any Ford or Chevy, just like everything else they make already is. But as soon as you begin talking about trucks or any other vehicle the size of a Tundra or smaller, Toyota makes the best of them in every single category. Which is the reason the Tundra is JD Power's truck of the year.

"If Toyota ever does decide to make a truck that large, it'll be better than any Ford or Chevy, just like everything else they make already is."

Do you use the Tundra, which Consumer Reports rates its reliability as much worse than average and people have been having problems with all over this site, as the basis for that prophecy?

Moreover, I have not seen any Toyota fans explain why Toyota's are having widespread engine failures as documented by Consumer Affairs:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Thus, your prediction is baseless as far as I am concerned.

"09:24 Pointless argument."

No, actually 22:47 is the pointless argument. You don't have to have an F-350 to compete with the Tundra. The F-150 will easily do everything commenter 09:24 is referring to, and it is (supposedly) in the same class as the Tundra. The Tacoma is not a real truck. It is useful for camping and very light hauling. It is no more reliable (or useful) than the Ford Ranger.

As for J.D. Powers picking the Tundra as "Truck of the Year" I found no mention of this on Google. J.D. Powers (to my knowledge) does not give "car and truck of the year" awards. They are a rating service based on owner satisfaction. In 2007 they rated the Pontiac Grand Prix as best large sedan (over the Toyota Avalon) and Mustang has consistently beat out the Toyota Solara as best sporty coupe in their ratings. Buick has tied with Lexus in quality and reliability. I'd say that gives domestic vehicles a pretty good standing.

The Ford F-150 has been the world's top selling truck for three DECADES, so it must be doing something right. I seriously doubt that the Tundra will be in existence for 3 decades. The Tacoma is a good small, light-duty truck, but has never rated higher in reliability than the Ranger. They both receive an "average" rating.

Toyota does not also make a vehicle equivalent to a F-250-or 3/4 ton Silverado or Rams as well. Or diesel. Baseless comparisons on non-existent models is really reaching.

I do see comparing small cars and small trucks together. Applying that same logic does not work well ignoring applications. I'll pay more for gas knowing I have the utility aspect covered. I have a family need space, room for luggage etc. as well as towing. Compromising safety, capability and comfort is not worth the few extra dollars in fuel or needing to have a trailing vehicle burning 2 tanks of fuel. Factor in other issues such as the lousy warranty with imports for those of us driving a lot and it loses appeal. Gas is at $2.61 gallon why drive a crammed up uncomfortable bland vehicle every weekend with distant driving? Gas keeps dropping and I suspect the little beater cars will start being the ones parked.