2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

"17th Nov 2008, 10:00.

"All of the Domestic branded vehicles I rented were absolutely sub-par compared to the Hondas and Toyotas we have in our family. "

Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Because of its subjectivity, your "argument" doesn't sway me, and won't prevent me from buying a Dodge or Ford when the time comes. I see no reason to consider Honda or Toyota based on your 'feeling' of a few rentals.

"...the vast majority of the folks on this thread, who for some reason insist on bashing every single import brand thread on the site. I'm not sure what that motivation is, but you hardly see any of we Toyota owners making comments on the countless Domestic car threads..."

I do not think anybody here bashes Toyota's just because they are Toyota's. Rather, I think some people (myself included) take issue with Toyota reviewers who using the Toyota review section to make claims of Toyota's being infallible, while excoriating domestics that many of us (who have been burned by Toyota's) know based on experience are much more reliable than Toyota's.

The rose colored Toyota glasses tend to come off after experiencing disasters like these:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestics have ever had these types of problems.

To 15:52 and 15:50. I'm afraid you'll (1) never get the domestic basher to drive a domestic truck. He insists on comparing 20-year-old vehicles that are not full sized trucks and (2) get them to admit that Toyota is an inferior product (which is obvious from all the data cited) because they have a fixation based on a bad experience with one 20-year-old domestic and refuse to look at, or even drive anything other than an import.

I've had an absolutely horrible experience with THREE imports, but before buying my last new vehicle I test drove several imports (including Toyota) because I want to try to keep an open mind. After comparing ride, handling, warranty, and price I bought a Ford.

In driving the F-150 and Silverado, the difference between it and the Tundra are obvious. They have a better ride, more plush interior, better road feel, and three times the warranty at a price that is very competitive. In addition, my friends who have bought Tundras have had numerous problems and I know of not one single person who has bought a SECOND Tundra. I do know a few who switched back to Ford F-150's after giving up on the Tundra. I think this says a lot for Tundra's poor performance as a competitor to full-sized domestic trucks.

With regard to confronting attacks against domestic makers, I fully intend to stand firm in my support of the U.S. auto industry at a time when our country is on the brink of a depression and 1 in 10 jobs in the U.S. depend on Ford, GM and Chrysler. Even if they did NOT build the world's best cars and trucks, I would, out of a duty to maintain our economic stability, still buy domestics. It is my hope that the U.S. will implement very high tariffs on vehicles built by Japanese, Korean, German and British companies in order to save our ailing economy (which also has a HUGE impact on the world economy). I am urging our legislators to do just that.

I have rented Camry's and been thoroughly unimpressed. The suspension squeaked and clunked on every one, the handling and engine performance absolutely stank and the interior was laden with "cheap" (to borrow a term from the Toyota fans) plastic that was coming apart. In addition to the engine performance being terrible, they were consistently the roughest running engines I ever encountered, and would shake the whole car. On one occasion, I had to drive one of the rental Camry's on a military base and undergo a vehicle inspection that included popping the hood with the engine running. The engine was visibly shaking so badly, even the MP noticed and commented on it. It was very embarrassing, on top of the embarrassment of just showing up in a Toyota to begin with. From that point on, whenever I rent, I insist on a domestic vehicle.

"Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Because of its subjectivity, your "argument" doesn't sway me, and won't prevent me from buying a Dodge or Ford when the time comes. I see no reason to consider Honda or Toyota based on your 'feeling' of a few rentals."

Well, it's also the "opinion" of the vast majority of the American public, who have made the Camry the best selling car for almost 10 years. That and the fact that the vast majority of auto publications and consumer guides also gives Toyota and Honda products higher marks in fit and finish, as well as overall reliability.

Lastly - to the guy who keeps using the consumer guide link as 'proof'... I'd suggest you take a gander at the Chevrolet section. There's your proof.

Look, here are the facts again. They even teach this stuff in college business and economics:

In the 70's when Toyota and Honda began to sell in the United States, it caused a lot of uproar because it was a foreign product, and MAINLY because they were BETTER products. It is an inarguable fact that the Big 3 had slipped drastically in quality because there was no competition in the market.

Toyota and Honda came in, caught on well, maybe not right away, but I don't think there's anybody out there who could argue that they've cracked the American car market; considering they're still on the TOP of every auto magazine's quality ratings, and the fact that for the last 15 years or so, the best selling cars in the U.S. have been either a Toyota or a Honda, Toyota mostly. These imports FORCED the Big 3 to improve in quality, and they have, but the fact is obvious that it was too little too late. They never caught up in quality or technology. Clearly.

If the government doesn't bail them out, GM especially, they WILL go into bankruptcy and collapse. If they'd made decent cars all along, no one would have had the motivation to buy something foreign, but again, the fact is that they didn't. Toyota and Honda stepped in and made cars that were so much better than the domestics that Americans couldn't help but notice, and buy them.

Toyota and Honda still make the best, highest quality, and most reliable cars and trucks in the world, and far better than the domestics. The 'flash in the pan' Ford Fusion is just a SINGLE example of Ford possibly (and finally) getting something right. ONE single example. Practically EVERY Toyota and Honda put into production in the last 20 years has been rated HIGHER than all domestics.

I can list 50 Toyota's for every Ford that has been rated well (and there are very few). Japanese cars are designed and built better. Period.

I don't know why every review has to turn into a battle of domestics vs. imports.

There are good & bad in every make.

I don't know how the commenter can draw a conclusion based on rentals though. Rentals are usually the cheapest version of every model, and they have not all had an easy life.

For what it's worth I've rented many Camrys and have come away pretty impressed.

What do I own? One import, one domestic - I love them both!

I totally agree with comment 12:37. My experience with Toyota has been identical. I'm not impressed with anything about them, from the rough-running engines to the jerky automatic transmissions to the puny warranty (which is only a third that of domestics).

Unless I see some drastic improvement, I will not buy a Tundra. It is not superior as far as ride, comfort, handling, room, bed capacity and towing as my GM.

I do not know why the import dweller keeps harping on cars and even small pickups. This is a dedicated category. They say they do not have to drive a vehicle to test them out. Seems pretty ridiculous when you are looking at full size trucks not to test 4 or 5 thoroughly.

I drive over 30,000 miles a year and tow during a lot of that. My family participates in the buying process as they spend a lot of time in my vehicles as well. Dependable and safe towing is important as well as the far superior warranty.

I will at least look at Toyota Tundra again and buy the one with the most utility, features, warranty etc. I am not driven strictly over price; the utility aspect is extremely important. A weak warranty that is gone in a year and a half in our driving is unacceptable.

My last Silverados ran 80,000 miles plus with no issues other than tires, brakes and frequent fluid changes due to heat and towing applications. And yes they were not 20 year old vehicles and complete history known as we bought them new. No doubt of neglect or delayed maintenance issues. In summary more utility, function and far superior warranty has garnered our family business.

"Lastly - to the guy who keeps using the consumer guide link as 'proof'... I'd suggest you take a gander at the Chevrolet section. There's your proof."

The point, which you seem determined not to address, is that Toyotas are not infallible as so many people here are resolutely claiming. They are quite the opposite actually, whether you chose to admit it or not.

I do not think anybody here is trying to suggest all American cars are perfect, only much better than Toyota's in most instances. I simply do not see American cars as a whole experiencing widespread engine failures on low mileage late model vehicles like Toyota's are.

I personally know multiple Toyota owners this has happened to, one of whom is a friend of mine who I had to loan money to for a new car after it happened to them. You might not want to accept the truth, but Consumer Affairs clearly indicates that these are not isolated incidents.

Want further proof? Take a look at these reviews right here on carsurvey as examples, EACH ONE DOCUMENTING A LOW MILEAGE ENGINE FAILURE:

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_6536.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_22516.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_21861.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_82050.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_85237.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_23139.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_23244.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_10591.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_25332.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_40999.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_33044.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_28023.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_15901.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_33248.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_73957.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_41126.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_70471.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_26098.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_37987.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_38217.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_67466.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_28054.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_107525.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_85094.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_21502.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_48643.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_49621.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_97335.html

I could go on, but am tired of copying and pasting these endless horror stories...

I would hate to bring the conversation down to this level, but perhaps I should be the one telling you to "deal with it..."

"Well, it's also the "opinion" of the vast majority of the American public, "

Oh? Domestic vehicles still count for 47% of domestic sales. The other 53% are not all buying Toyotas, or even Japanese cars. Sounds like a minority, rather than your "vast majority". I know you want it to be true, but it isn't. Sorry.

To 08:55. No, rentals are not always the "cheapest" models and it is a myth that they are somehow "abused" because they have multiple drivers.

I currently drive a 2001 GM car that is a former rental. It has every option except leather and a moon roof. It has alloy wheels, rear spoiler and every conceivable power option. It has been one of the most reliable cars we have ever owned.

My family has also owned a Buick and a Toyota that were former rental vehicles. The Buick was recently sold with 270,000+ totally trouble-free miles. The Toyota was sold with 100,000 mostly trouble-free miles.

What people fail to understand is that it is far better to have 1000 drivers who are generally business men or families on vacation than ONE lead-footed teenage driver.

Also, rental cars are meticulously serviced and checked after every rental. I am a mechanic and I highly recommend rental vehicles over privately owned vehicles.

To 18:36 - Dude, relax and take a deep breath.

The comment says: " Rentals are usually the cheapest version of every model, and they have not all had an easy life.

For what it's worth I've rented many Camrys and have come away pretty impressed."

Notice the word "usually" meaning that NOT all rentals are the cheapest model.

Also see that it says NOT ALL" rentals have had an easy life.

Nowhere is it stated that all rentals are the cheapest models, or that all rentals are abused.

It also states that in this writer's opinion the Camry's were impressive and they WERE rentals.

Let's face it - yes, most rental companies service their rentals regularly, however not all rental cars are treated with kid gloves by those who rent them. Just think of all of the different drivers they have had over their rental lifetime. Also take a look at the fleet of rental cars at a nearby rental office. Do you see scratches and dings on the body? I've seen scratches on the trunk lid, roof, etc. Indicating that some renters throw their luggage, brief cases etc. on top of the car, not worrying about possible damage. I doubt these careless nimrods would do the same thing to their personal cars.

Whenever I rent a car, I treat it with kid gloves, as I don't want to damage someone else's property. (I treat my vehicles the same way). However, I doubt that all rental car customers treat rentals that well.

"Well, it's also the "opinion" of the vast majority of the American public, who have made the Camry the best selling car for almost 10 years. That and the fact that the vast majority of auto publications and consumer guides also gives Toyota and Honda products higher marks in fit and finish, as well as overall reliability."

Well, as 17:40 points out, a majority of the American public are still buying non-Japanese vehicles, and a vast majority of that group are buying American vehicles.

Regarding the Camry somehow making the best seller list, a majority of the American people probably elected a president or two you did not agree with based on what you believe are incorrect notions and misguided opinions of the agenda-driven press. Just because many people are doing something does not make it right.

Take a look at 15:18.

"I don't know how the commenter can draw a conclusion based on rentals though. Rentals are usually the cheapest version of every model, and they have not all had an easy life."

Oops, there goes the arguments from the Toyota fans who rented domestic vehicles and were displeased with them too, that is unless the usual Toyota double standard where any and all Toyota problems no matter how severe are excused, while domestic vehicle are nit picked to death still applies.