2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

To the commenter who said this was a "double standard".

I wish you would read the entire comment - nowhere did I say that Imports were better than domestics.

In fact I said that there are good & bad in every make.

I'm not the one trying to turn this into an import vs. domestic argument.

In fact I'm saying that the argument itself is pointless.

15:18,

Did you look at the Chevy section on the Consumer site you keep bringing up? Well there's close to 150 complaints on the Malibu alone, and just as many for the bulk of their models listed there. In fact, one of the comments on that site was that a user "complained" that he felt like they were being "Unfair" to GM. Or it could just be that lots of people have problems with GM products. Needless to say, while there are cars and trucks from Toyota on that site, Ford and GM have the lion's share of complaints.

In any regard, GM and ford are toast. So you guys are going to have to get used to driving Toyotas and Hondas because they will be the only cars left.

11:34 makes the point perfectly. If the cigarette lighter in my Ford stops working at 400,000 miles, imports fans say it is "crap". If a Honda requires 4 transmissions in 80,000 miles and a Toyota needs 3 engines in 3 years they are still "reliable, better built cars".

I have rented numerous rentals on business trips often doing the luxury car upgrade, and they were not bottom bare bones models. Depending on where you travel, you can also rent sports cars, exotics even Harley Davidson's as well. I have driven former rental vehicles that were bought as company cars such as Crown Vics, Marquis and Lincolns and all were fine.

How about vehicles at dealerships that are not brand new from being demo cars, salemen, mgr cars? I suspect some are wrung out on many road tests.

I believe in a good test drive and maybe I drive each a bit more than the average road test customer. But I also have my checkbook in my back pocket and have my family drive and ride in each as well.

Fit and finish is good, but you need to drive them thoroughly and examine everything. On a full size truck such as on this review; the bed, towing is why you are buying this larger type vehicle. Then driving with best handling, head, shoulder, leg room, performance, power, amenities and then warranty.

It wasn't a Tundra after comparisons, utility and features-benefit observations we made.

15:18 Congratulations! You've succeeding in proving absolutely nothing. What you've done is list a bunch of comments probably made by Ford and GM fans.

I can still use as proof the opinions of every major automotive expert that works for every major automotive magazine I've ever read. Go to the newsstand. Buy any of them. Consumer Reports. JD Power. CNN studies. ALL of them rank Japanese automobiles as the HIGHEST quality. They take all the top spots, year and year. Or I can believe YOU and a bunch of anonymous people with absolutely no qualifications or facts.

"To the commenter who said this was a "double standard".

I wish you would read the entire comment - nowhere did I say that Imports were better than domestics."

Sorry for not being as clear as I should have been. I did read the entire comment and you are correct. I should have specified that I was referring to your comments about rental cars in general, which (I agree with you) are sometimes being mishandled, not that you were jumping into the import vs. domestic debate.

My point is that certain people will use that as a defense against me not liking the Camry's I rented, while completely ignoring that aspect things for the people who disliked the domestics they rented.

I'll be a bit more specific about my experiences renting some of the Domestic cars I rented. I'm a fairly perceptive person, so perhaps some don't notice these things. I rented most recently a Pontiac Grand Am. It was a 2007 model with around 20,000 miles on it. All black leather interior, premium sound system... the whole nine yards.

The good parts first. It got admirable fuel economy. We got around 30MPG freeway, and we were driving pretty fast too. It was also fast. It was also quite. Additionally, it had lots of little whistles and bells like a trunk opener and a little trip computer that showed you various things like tire pressure and estimated miles left you had on the gas remaining.

The bad parts last. The car was uncomfortable. I'm a kind of little guy. I'm around 5 ft 7 or so. The car was like getting in a car when you were 5 years old: HUGE. I could barely see over the dash. Secondly, it was almost impossible not to hit your ankles getting in the thing. There was a nonsensical raised area because the door closure was around 6" above the bottom trim. Secondly, the interior of the car was as I've seen on the majority of American cars for years. It was glazed over with massive amounts of cheap plastic. Not that plastic is bad. All cars have it. But the way it's used in cars like these is more like an afterthought. Big swaths of it laid over vast expanses. The radio itself was made out of the same plastic. It looked super-generic. The gear shift, windshield wiper controls, and so on were also made of cheap plastic. I felt like I could snap the wiper controls. It just had an overall feeling of flimsiness. The letters and markings were already wearing off in places.

The seats were showing serious wear. The edges were starting to crack. During the whole trip, the tire pressure alarm went off frequently. We checked the pressure and the gauge was totally inaccurate.

Since I'm curious about engines, I looked under the hood. The whole engine was covered in a giant sheet of molded plastic. There was a lot of usage of cheap materials. black painted nuts and bolts versus galvanized. Wiring and hoses routed haphazardly all over the place. Additionally, the engine screeched every time we started it. Sometimes for 30 seconds or more.

So my complaint about the bulk of domestic cars and trucks I've driven is that while for the most part, they seem decent, there is an underlying cheapness and obvious signs of bean-counting and corner cutting. Lots of shortcuts being made too. I'm sure that some of these cars will run for just as long as a Toyota. But frankly, I'd rather let someone else be the guinea pig while I keep driving what I know is quality, know has been engineered with no bean counting, and will serve me reliably for years. I am yet to be convinced the Big Three are there yet. When they do, I'll gladly buy one.

20:45.

OK then, applying your logic, I could say all of the complaints about domestic vehicles are from domestic car haters and this whole discussion is pointless?

Your entire argument seems to be that anything negative a person says about Toyota must be untrue, while anything negative a person says about a domestic vehicle is always true. Then, if there is any doubts of this, we can let the press can be the ultimate arbitrator and do our thinking on the matter for us.

I don't know what to say... Trying to reason with that seems pretty hopeless.

Regarding people's "qualifications" to make comments on this site, I think our experience and intuition as people the brains God gave us should be enough.

But if you must know, I also happen to be a practicing Engineer with a masters in Engineering, Graduate Certificate, and additional graduate work very close to a PhD. Among the systems I have personally designed and been involved in the design of have been automotive systems both electrical and mechanical in nature. Before going to school for engineering and working as an Engineer, I was a formally trained ASE certified auto mechanic, with a special concentration on electronics and engine-performance/drivability related concerns. In other words, I am quite up to date on the latest automotive technology and qualitative analysis of the subject, and do not whistle Dixie when I post to this site.

I would be most happy to have a friendly TECHNICAL debate on automotive technology here with you any time you want, if you are so concerned about people's "qualifications" who post to this site.

I think everyone's "qualifications" who post to this site are fine.

I agree that test drives should be very strenuous and push the vehicle to its limits. Otherwise, you have no idea what its capabilities and limitations are. I ALWAYS buy the car I test drove (instead of choosing an identical one off the lot) in spite of having wrung the guts out of it.

As a former car salesman, I can assure you that the salesmen put their demonstrators through ever conceivable form of abuse. Domestic vehicles are built like tanks, and red-lining the engines, slamming on the brakes at speed and wild cornering are not going to do them the slightest bit of harm. Ironically, the ONLY vehicle I ever saw blow up during a test drive was (of all things) a Rolls Royce!!

The scariest test drive I ever had was in a Toyota Highlander. It DID make it back to the dealer's lot, but applying the brakes caused it to lurch wildly to the left, the V-6 was so puny we couldn't merge into traffic without nearly being run over, and pieces of trim were literally falling off the interior. It goes without saying we did NOT buy the Toyota!!

20:45 while you use the words automobiles freely, at what point are you going to begin to analyze full size trucks? I can read magazines as well, but then I take it on the road and test as many full size trucks as possible.

If you truly hate import full size truck's handling or room, comfort or handling, are you expected to forego that and buy anyway? If you have ever owned new full sizes do you compare utility or compare it to a car?

I am sorry but I do not apply car analogies as it's the functionality that concerns me when one wants to go bigger and own new late model full size trucks.

I own different vehicles including a high top conversion van. When I bought the conversion van, I was not thinking a hybrid Prius to base upon my buying decision.

The fact is if you ever go beyond walking around full size trucks, looking at paint and finish and the amount of cupholders, it may at some point address best function and capability. There are far more full size truck offerings available as domestics, and import full size trucks are thin. I found out I like driving domestic full sizes most of all... far better comfort, I like the better handling and especially function. Again this is not a small car, small truck review and if anyone on here were commenting on the Tundra they owned I would be interested in reading. If you own a Tundra, Titan where are you? Beyond maybe 2 people, the rest are either small car, small truck or full size domestic truck owners on here.

"Or I can believe YOU and a bunch of anonymous people with absolutely no qualifications or facts."

Does anyone see the irony in this comment? I'll believe my experience with trouble-free American vehicles before I let this guy tell me tales of magical Japanese cars.

How many people rent a Camry, review car reviews at the newstand and then buy a full size truck? I remember following Consumer Reports in the 70's and seeing the columns of darkened circles indicating import excellence. Then it slowly became satisfactory or worse than before if you are into the circle thing. With less and less dark circles. I learned to always test drive after making mistakes on my special ordered vehicles. You have to get out of the armchair and base decisions on what you like and actually need. On a full size truck review I tow a boat. I also have 4 occupants (family) that look at comfort, head, shoulder room.

My worse mistake was going off a review and special ordering a car with reduced headroom with the sunroof option. None of the cars we walked around had that option to even sit in. My head was right on the ceiling for 4 months and I sold it.

The same with full size trucks. If you are unhappy driving them it is not any value whatsoever. It is the worst feeling hating what you drive over cheapness. Being uncomfortable or lacking key elements you may personally need over resale or looking at panel gaps, cupholders is not how I buy. I want value in the product,outstanding service and warranty or I will not keep buying the same new vehicles again.

On full size trucks, I am asking questions on latest options, safety, cooling, tow packages, suspension, tires but then test the handling, leg, better shoulder room and overall room, even heavily involving my children as they spend a lot of time in my full size truck as well.

Unless you buy a full size truck to solo commute or not need any utility of one. I would probably buy a small truck if I did not have applications for a full size. I would suspect people on here are contemplating the purchase of a new full size or they would not be on here. Anyway we chose another new Silverado. My wife is 100% off new import sedans; had been buying new ones every 2-3 years since the 70's. She's very pleased with her newest GM SUV.

20:37 As expected, you miss the point again. I'm not expecting you to believe me. My argument isn't built on MY opinions, it's built on the opinions of automotive experts working for every major auto magazine on the newstand that ALL rate Japanese cars and trucks the HIGHEST in quality and reliability - because they ARE.

Your argument doesn't work at all, and it's factually void. AGAIN -- are you really expecting people to believe YOUR unfounded opinions, or the millions of people who've made Japanese cars the best selling in the country BECAUSE they're the best, AND are clearly rated as such??

12:52 Your college degree does not guarantee your intelligence or anyone else's. I'm very close to a post grad degree also... who cares.

To answer your question (of sorts)...NO, I do not think that ALL people who make negative comments about Toyota's are lying. They are machines, they break down. HOWEVER.. they ARE (in fact), much BETTER machines/automobiles than Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or anyone else makes. With the possible exception of Honda, their only real competitor regarding quality.

It is much easier to believe claims of high mileage Toyota's and Honda's because IT'S THE TRUTH, due to their better build quality and engine design. Any mechanical engineer worth a nickel would be able to explain how a Honda or Toyota engine is superior in design to a GM engine.

With the economy the way it is, with less and less people in existing companies, the last thing I want to do is to miss work with very high mileage cars or trucks.

I use to buy some bargains thinking no car payment and take a chance with imports. But import repairs are very expensive, and some of the following such as modules, timing belts, water pumps, head gaskets, heater cores can go at any minute. Even thinking you replace everything in time does not always work. I have seen 2 coworkers late with an older Camry and an old mini Toyota pickup that were late more than a few times and written up.

The logic of having 2 heaps in the driveway and hope one starts in the morning is not for me. Another co-worker wasted his money on a Civic adding shaved keyless door handles, a supercharger, and costly rims instead of owning a new reliable vehicle and got written up as well over unreliable transportation.

I suspect most on here do not chance that unless they are retired and have all day to sit in the shop and miss work. I have used a free loaner car with basic service schedule, no real issue with my new domestic and the free shuttle to and from work.

Employers notice who's working the moment they come in. It's hard to also catch a bus when your car is sitting on the shoulder of the interstate. Look at consumeraffairs.com to get an idea.