2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

23:25 I would value an expert opinion from an ASE certified mechanic with additional formal training in engineering and a strong automotive backgound in areas such as engine performance and drivability.

As another commenter, I have background in DC Electric Tooling/Torque Tubes/Air and Mechanical zero gravity Balancers widely used in automotive assembly plants and have worked closely with tool engineers myself. I also have purchased at least 30 new vehicles and formulate my opinion on past performance and reliability. I see Honda and Toyota mechanically as just average and see GM as my preference.

The import commenter continues to feel that a negative import comment comes from individuals lacking expertise in the automotive realm. Far from true. I am seeing highly detailed arguments to the contrary from domestic ownership vs. vague generalized comments. As I respect everyone's opinion, I will not even question this individuals educational background. Each person can track many new vehicles purchased first hand and formulate their best personal decision what to purchase.

Does the import commenter own a new full size truck as some of us that own them do at least? At least it has some pertinence on a full size truck review that you can share first hand knowledge that all can analyze and base a decision upon.

"Any mechanical engineer worth a nickel would be able to explain how a Honda or Toyota engine is superior in design to a GM engine."

OK, I guess I am not worth a nickel, because I do not agree with you.

And I thought not being "qualified" to make comments on this site was bad enough...

Again, you are just speculating, but providing no facts. If you have any knowledge of the subject, why don't YOU explain it instead of ASSUMING what others think?

For example, explain why so many Toyota engines are developing sludge and seizing due to improper thermodynamic design. Specifically, explain why measured data indicates temperature differentials between the head (s) and block in Toyota engines as high as 60-70, while the accepted industry design standard is between 10-15 degrees. It is known that high temperature differentials such as those in Toyota engines are known to cause sludge. If they followed proper design procedure, the problem could have been avoided.

Do you honestly still think all the accounts of Toyota engine failures on Consumer Affairs and the PARTIAL list of examples below on CarSurvey are made up?

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_6536.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_22516.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_21861.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_82050.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_85237.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_23139.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_23244.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_10591.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_25332.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_40999.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_33044.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_28023.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_15901.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_33248.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_73957.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_41126.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_70471.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_26098.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_37987.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_38217.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_67466.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_28054.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_107525.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_85094.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_21502.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_48643.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_49621.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_97335.html

I have just provided you with a specific design defect that has likely contributed to the many Toyota engine failures that have been occurring recently. I am still waiting for you to provide some specific facts on why Toyota engines are superior, not subjective media articles and pompous assertions that "everybody knows" (paraphrasing) your opinion is true.

I know all domestics are not perfect and I could site you examples of domestic models with serious design flaws too. But, Toyota is no way the standard bearer for quality over domestics; they are quite the opposite in actuality. The percentage of Toyota's having SERIOUS problems (e.g., ENGINE FAILURES) far exceeds the percentage of domestics having similar problems. The only thing truly remarkable about Toyota, notwithstanding their major quality problems, is the cult following they have in light of these problems.

"Any mechanical engineer worth a nickel would be able to explain how a Honda or Toyota engine is superior in design to a GM engine."

Really? I'm a mechanic with over 40 years of experience. I can assure you that there are basically NO differences between modern domestic engine designs and new Japanese engine designs except for the defects in Japanese engines that are so clearly detailed in comment 12:30.

Here again, we have to look at new models, not dwell on a minor problem someone had with a 20-year-old domestic with 200,000 miles on it. All modern engine designs are very similar. Any mechanical engineer worth a nickel will agree. All modern engines are basically the same, except that in some cases domestics (such as the one I drive) have more expensive, sturdy chains (or gears in some cases) driving the overhead cams instead of flimsy rubber belts such as those used by Toyota that break every 50,000 miles and require expensive repairs.

I spent all day Sunday at the SF international auto show. It's good to go to things like these because you can carefully look at and even sit in all the cars from all the manufacturers. I've never done this before, but it gave me a Birdseye view as to why the Big 3 are doing so badly. People arguing here should do the same. Here's what I observed:

I looked at the GM, Ford, and Chrysler brands. All-in-all, the quality, fit and finish, and design seemed fairly solid. I was able to spend a lot of time sitting inside the interiors, looking under the hood, and basically looking each and every car over very carefully. But what was interesting is that there were not many people at any of these manufacturers. There were a few - and most of these were older guys, looking at the New Mustang, Challenger, and Corvettes.

The situation was totally different at the Honda, Acura, Lexus, Audi, and VW sections. These places were overflowing with people. I had a hard time getting close to the cars in these sections. What was very clear was that these brands were much more appealing for some reason to younger adults and families.

After looking at all of the brands, what I can tell you from observation that the Big Three aren't getting and what many of the other brands get is that being 'good' simply isn't good enough anymore. While the interior and design of almost all of the Big three's cars and trucks were all-in-all good, with the one exception of the upper end Cadillacs, which were a step above, there was nothing that really stood out in the cars as being memorable. They were just that - plain and uninspiring. The other car makers took it just a few steps further with attention paid to small details like the interior materials, lighting, and gadgets. A GM car might have had a nice looking interior, but there were lots of places where corners had been cut. There wasn't a lot of texture or tactile qualities to their layouts. It was just there to hold door handles, switches, and so forth. But in brands like Honda, Infiniti, and Audi, there was careful attention paid to tactile touches.

The Big Three simply must come up with cars that are a step ahead of the others. As it is now, they just made so-so, uninspiring, uninteresting cars. If what I saw with the level of interest at this car show is any indicator, then the Big three need to pay attention.

While we are on the topic add transmission issues, undersized brakes and remove the tailgate on Tundras. I have yet to see one comment from the import fanatic about consumeraffairs.com. Not one. They will jump over to a domestic comment immediately. If you claim perfection than address Tundras engine, trans and undersized brakes. Better yet look at todays comments on other Tundra owners brake rotor issues... Has your Tundra been immune to all of these issues?

14:18 That's exactly what separates Toyota, Honda... even Hyundai now from the domestics. Attention to detail and quality without cutting corners. From the engine design and build right down to the door handles.

I can't imagine what anyone would find "interesting" at a car show about basic transportation appliances. They all look alike and offer nothing new or exciting.

12:30's answer... that the import dweller went to a car show and saw people walking around cars. Maybe they were looking for something cheaper to drive that burned less gas.

I would like to see more detailed comments such as 12:30. They have yet to ever comment on consumeraffairs.com catastrophic Toyota engine issues. Maybe everyone else got a chance to absorb that illustration however. I will not be in line for another import replacement myself.

I think most of the comments here are off topic.

I honestly don't understand why this has to turn into a debate about Imports vs. Domestics.

I also don't understand why so many people take it so personally.

If you have a make or model that you like and have had good luck with - Good for you! Enjoy it! Whether it be a domestic make or an import.

We will never see an answer to 12:30's challenge to address the serious issues Toyota, and Tundra especially, have had in recent years. All we have seen is opinion and comments about car shows where people were looking for cheap basic transportation. We have yet to see a single frequency-of-repair study, nor any justification for why Toyota does not have the confidence in their vehicles to provide a decent warranty. We have also never heard from one single individual who has bought a SECOND Tundra. Every Tundra owner I know has traded back to a domestic well before 100,000 miles due to major issues with their Tundras.

For the guy who keeps posting the links as "proof" of how supposedly bad Toyotas are, I suppose I could owe you an explanation, but on the other hand, I could just as easily do the same and post the rotten reviews from just two models Chevrolet makes alone, and just on this site. I in no way even came close to posting even a small fraction of the numbers of bad reviews for these models, but here are just a few for you to gaze at:

Chevrolet Silverado:

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_111793.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_103160.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_112330.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_98836.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_111355.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_117352.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_76336.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_110024.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_78376.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_23398.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_17465.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_98161.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_89593.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_43962.html

Malibu:

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_104376.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_112325.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_94578.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_100845.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_77066.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_102557.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_95426.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_112437.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_32204.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_34791.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_57022.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_51921.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_17310.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_28570.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_115175.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_36386.html

So you go right ahead and post all the "horrible engine failures" from the cherry-picked reviews you've found. That still doesn't change the overall fact that Toyota and Honda still build better cars and trucks. Sure - they've had some problems, and some still do. The important part is what manufacturer has LESS problems, and by and far, there's no contest here. Toyota and Honda still come out well ahead in every aspect.

If there is a comparison regarding new full size truck any make or manufacturer it remains on topic. Its when it drifts off to cars or small trucks that it loses relevance. Individuals that own or are contemplating ownership of a full size truck can certainly benefit from actual first hand ownership within a few years at least of the original commenters review.

10:19 I don't know who mentioned any 20 year old domestic with 200,000 miles on it.

The only domestic that I know of that has made it over 200,000 miles WITHOUT major engine work or a tranny rebuild or replacement (or a ton of minor work) is a Dodge Ram with a 318. ONE truck.

Your blessed timing chain is a perfect example of just how outdated your domestic is. A Toyota with a timing BELT will in almost all cases run for 100,000 miles more than your Ford or Chevy. Change it every 100,000 or so. If you want. Most people I know don't even do that with their Toyota's.

The most recent problem I have encountered with that was an S-10 with a timing CHAIN that broke and tore the engine to pieces. It had about 70,000 miles on it if I remember correctly, which for a GM meant it was at or near the end of it's productive life anyway.

You may have 40 years experience, but this isn't 1970 anymore. The timing chains are fine.

2 Durango company vehicles; mine is a 2003 with 228,000 miles and a co worker with 260,000. We also have a smaller V8 Dakota touching 200,000. Same engines.

Universals and 1 one had a trans replacement, but run great. The Dakota 4 door handles the best and we alternate driving it when we service our larger SUV's.

If they gave me a Tundra to drive as a free company vehicle I would be unbiased as well. But the Chryslers we have are nice and the V8's are the way to go.

It's easy for commenter 10:08 to find lots of examples of defects in the Silverado. I suspect that that has a lot to do with the fact that there are about 1000 Silverados on the road for every Tundra. When you have 1000 times the number of vehicles, finding 10 times the number of problems is pretty easy. It still leaves the Silverado AHEAD by a factor of 100 to 1. Nice try, but sorry, no prize.

I'm not surprised that an import fan would regard a cheap, flimsy RUBBER timing belt as superior to a STEEL one. It seems that anything cheaper that is put in a Japanese car is "better quality" no matter how unreliable and troublesome it is. I don't know of anyone who has gone over 100,000 miles in a Toyota without having to replace the flimsy rubber belt. Of course, I only know of TWO people who have actually gotten over 100,000 miles out of a Toyota anyway. Only ONE of our domestics ever required a timing belt. It was a Dodge with 192,000 miles on it, and it DID have the flimsy rubber belt like Toyota and Honda use.