2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

This review No More GM is mine. I am shocked at the debates and comments it has prompted. All I can say is having owned domestic trucks for 20 years, after this Toyota I will never own a domestic again. After 64,000 miles it finally needed front brake pads to get through inspection. That is all this truck has ever needed. I don't know how you can debate that.

17:11 Quality and service does retain great business. You're exactly right. And Ford, GM, and Dodge's lack of both have put them in the positions that they're all in today.

The fact that Toyota has grown as they have in such a relatively short time is proof of that; they have both quality and good service; the service end being a very rare thing for a Toyota owner. As I've stated many times, I've owned 3 and have never changed a part.

My domestics, all of them, proved themselves unworthy of ownership and were causing me headaches all the time. This is obviously a common occurrence, in reality.

In the statistics, new vehicles sales specifically, have shown the imports to be steadily on the rise and the domestics to be losing more and more sales. Sure, there are little ups and downs for both, but over the past decade, in general, the imports' sales have skyrocketed and on that same chart, you'd see the domestics' sales plummeting. Quality and quality service prove both.

That's a very good point 17:11, however our experience with older imports was also very bad. There's no question that they are worse now, but of the imports we owned in the 80's and early 90's, none were comparable to the domestics we owned even then, let alone since 2000.

Since 2000 we have owned 2 GM vehicles and 2 Fords. One of them is now 8 years old, and one is 6 years old this year. Neither has ever had a problem, so warranty has not been a concern for us. Nevertheless, it shows a tremendous amount of confidence in build quality when any manufacturer warrants their vehicles for 100,000 miles. It also gives us peace of mind knowing we will never have to pay for repairs, even in the very rare event that a problem should occur.

In addition, no imports (cars or trucks) that we've driven in the past 8 years have been anywhere near as smooth, quiet and comfortable as domestics. No more imports for us.

13:22 The argument is valid as irregardless of fuel pricing; a full size truck candidate will buy because of function first.

I am certain that sales statistics on many vehicles are driven over fuel. Many SUV's, large sedans etc can likely downsize and go that route. A purchaser of a full size truck needs one otherwise they would go with the little trucks. I tow and carry large loads, which over time would destroy a small truck.

The best way to review these comments is to be aware that are many applications and expectations on acquiring vehicles. You cannot put everyone in your shoes and expect them to fit all.

Full size truck owners that buy now are aware they will have to spend more to get more. If you have ever traveled overseas by the way, even 10 years ago, worldwide gas pricing has always been higher. It's now reached us.

Not everyone is going to drive small trucks, simple as that. On the higher end of the spectrum, meaning those that can afford the best quality, it makes no difference as far as fuel pricing. 40K for a great truck is not exorbitant, especially if it is fully functional. I know a high end dealership (exotics) that is unaffected by the economy, and are buying without concern over fuel or pricing. Besides having better quality in a vehicle and better warranty, you also have better quality of life. My truck enables our family to travel in one vehicle and enjoy boating on weekends. If a small truck would even remotely work as well as tow, we would have to take 2 vehicles to travel weekends... seems senseless. Again each family has their own applications.

You have to examine how the vehicles are being used and then comment. It's not always price or fuel, especially with full size truck ownership. Even this review is about an older 6 year old vehicle.

17:37,

If fuel keeps climbing upwards, as in gas eventually becomes $6-$7 a gallon, then this will ultimately affect the choices people make in regards to the types of cars and trucks they buy.

For example, I've been to Europe a number of times. The last was in 2000 when gas there was approximately the equivalent of $8 a gallon US. Out of all the cars and trucks I saw on the road, the vast majority were tiny little cars with small turbo diesel engines that averaged 50-60MPG. We saw very few pickup trucks, and of these, most were of the smaller variety. Most of those trucks also had small turbo diesel engines. Many businesses used larger Mercedes delivery vans for heavy work. These are now sold in the US as the Dodge Sprinter, which has a diesel engine that averages around 30MPG.

In many parts of Asia and Africa, the best-selling truck is the Toyota Hi-lux, or what is sold in the US as the Tacoma. Again, these are offered in a diesel variant. These have been the workhorses of those countries for decades.

My argument isn't that Americans will suddenly stop driving trucks and cars, but they're eventually going to have to reconsider what is necessary. People in Asia, Europe, and Africa who use smaller vehicles to accomplish the same things that we do and often times more are not deprived just because they don't have gigantic, huge Ford F-350s. My argument is that the time is coming where Americans are going to be joining the rest of the world in terms of having to deal with higher fuel prices which greatly influences the kinds of vehicles they buy.

Additionally, we've built the US infrastructure to be completely reliant on freeways linking far-flung suburbs to major cities. This system was reliant on affordable fuel prices. We commute more than ever these days. To say that with high fuel prices and the increasing pressure of inflation will mean that we're going to always be driving large and embarrassingly inefficient trucks for none other than the luxurious enjoyment of such things as boating, camping, and so on seems far-fetched. You see, it isn't just a problem with the cars we drive, but how out entire residential structure is entirely reliant on suburbs supported by fuel.

Then again, I don't have to say anything else about it. The fuel prices will rectify my point soon enough anyway.

I don't normally defend the Tacoma guy because he isn't discussing modern, large trucks, but I do have to say that the gas price argument is valid, even where large trucks are concerned. I can't accept for a second the argument that "a person who buys a full size truck needs one, otherwise they'd buy a small truck." NO ONE I know (except construction companies) that owns a large truck or SUV EVER uses it for anything except taking the kids to soccer games or grocery shopping. You could do that in a golf cart. AGAINST my wishes, my wife chooses to drive a large SUV because she is afraid to drive a small vehicle as long as our roads are clogged with 3-ton Corolla/Civic Squishers. All of our neighbors, relatives and friends buy their children SUV's or large trucks for the same reason: SAFETY. NO ONE hauls ANYTHING in them or tows anything. My wife seldom even has a passenger with her.

The driving force behind recent small car sales (Ford has increased production of the 35mpg Focus by 30% to cover increased demand) is HIGH GAS PRICES, not any perceived difference in quality. Most car buyers don't even know the difference between a crankshaft and a water pump, but they DO know gas costs a LOT. I sincerely hope that our government will finally get the backbone to outlaw monster SUV's and trucks for anyone other than large construction companies.

We are destroying our planet and our economy by driving 8 mile per gallon monsters like the Ford Excursion, Hummer, Toyota Land Cruiser and Nissan Armada, as well as the humongous 4-door full size trucks that take up two parking spaces and cost $100 to fill up.

As for the new large hybrids, the Tacoma guy has that right too. Their gas mileage is still laughably low. 21 miles per gallon is 14-16 mpg less than a non-hybrid Corolla, Civic or Focus. Even though import quality is dropping like a rock, they still attract buyers because of gas prices, and the average buyer is not very well educated about vehicle quality and relies on ad hype to make most buying decisions. High fuel mileage makes for GREAT ad hype.

17:13 How about discussing recent 2008 Toyota quality?... recent new owners having owned a vehicle for a minimum 2-3 months. Out of 1000 points Toyota finished 5th on surveys on reliability and quality. Volkswagen AG with includes Audi finished 1st at 892 points, General Motors finished 2nd at 867,followed by Ford and Honda tied for 3rd at 862. Toyota finished 5th at 860 points. This is current not the 3 older Toyotas you had or have. You can ignore one time buyouts and declare it's about quality rather than factual information. VW, GM and Ford were the only corporations which have shown improvements on the current surveys.

Gasoline pricing is a factor on current sales numbers. Eventually the mechanical issues and how they are handled are reflected which they have been. How would you like a $2000 repair bill on your Prius just beyond the lousy 36,000 mile warranty for a failure on the electric steering system designed to save fuel and beyond the recall date, or a $4000 plus trans or Engine repair on a Honda, Toyota? If any of this happens to you at some later date when you buy newer imports, as many are reflecting these issues, you may not accept it any longer. Again it's 2008, not the same older imports of which you have owned 3? How about us that have had 12 or more, all bought new?

I like looking at a collective current opinion before I spend, and I am seeing it's false economy rushing out to buy the cheapest chasing MPG, without analyzing true costs to own and mechanical issues attended to. Face it, 36,000 miles is a lousy warranty... no warranty at 37000 miles is no warranty. The actual owner surveys are indicating the quality issues, not the marathon owner with 1 vehicle that they have 200,000 miles with no intention of being in the mainstream with late model comparisons.

15:25 I'm happy to discuss Toyota quality in 2008: it's still the best, rivaled only by Honda. That sums it up.

I have no idea which poll you're talking about, because you don't say, or what relevance you think some obscure point system has, but I don't worry about any of that nonsense. What I do know is that Toyota and Honda still make the most reliable, long lasting engines and drivetrains money can buy, and that's a fact.

I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else of that. I don't care who knows it and who doesn't. I know that, and most educated car buyers know it too. Those of you who don't, well, that's your problem, not mine.

23:20 for an older vehicle owner that hardly ever buys new vehicles, it's not surprising. Strategic Visions Total Quality Index is comprised of complete ownership experiences after 90 days of new ownership. It comprises ownership of every vehicle sold in America. 1000 points is perfect, of which Toyota owners rank its quality in 5TH place.

It's wonderful that you love your vehicle. Anyone owning a late model, literally thousands with first hand ownership in 2008, indicate otherwise. VW including Audi (and I have have a friend with a new one that loves it) is number 1. 2008 GM owners in second place. Since it is 2008 and I own 2008 vehicles, I prefer thousands of collective experiences vs. a lone dissenter knocking vehicles they had 10 plus years ago.

My next new vehicle will likely be 2010; again, not 1999 or older. I have a lot more faith in many thousands commenting as well. I like evaluating my overall ownership experiences not just on fuel costs, economy only or limited application vehicles designed for mostly solo ownership. I buy after examining every aspect... not seeing the outstanding quality as VW and GM owners have in 2008.

Honda at least was tied with Ford in the number 3 spot. I guess you do not care what thousands of 2008 owners think overall... I respect it however more so that a solo commenter.

Taking out fuel economy and even price of the vehicle to a point, I buy the best there is. Function is again dismissed; why buy a minimum type vehicle to beat around in. I paid 4.28 a gallon today for premium fuel in my one new GM, but the overall quality, ride, room, warranty is worth every penny. My scoring would be excellent on my 2....and I will buy more. Apparently thousands of others agree with me on total quality and level of ownership as well in 2008.

Yes, I suppose that's why Consumer Reports (one of those "obscure" systems, which uses such silliness as allowing actual vehicle OWNERS to inform them of the satisfaction of their vehicles) no longer recommends Tundra, Camry or Yaris.

12:36 You know, you domestic owners are funny. I've argued on here with dozens of you guys anytime Consumer Reports gave an import a good rating, and I was told that it was because Toyota pays them a lot of ad. money, or that they were biased toward imports for some unknown reason. I guess it was because they called domestic automobiles what most of us know that they are; junk. Substandard to the imports. Now that a couple domestics get a decent rating, Consumer Reports is right on the money and the end all-be all of publications. You can't have it both ways. Make up your mind.

I don't believe everything I read. The proof is in the ownership, and I've owned domestics and imports. The imports win every possible category when comparing the two in my book, new or old.

I just bought a Hyundai Accent. I looked at every compact on the market; the Aveo and the Focus. I don't bother with Dodge, because they're the complete bottom of the barrel, didn't even waste my time there.

I wanted the Fit above all, the Yaris was my second choice, and I settled on the Hyundai because it was a few thousand cheaper than those two and had a much longer warranty.

The Aveo is junk, and Ford's history of problematic cars kept me away from the Focus.

07:49.

I think you have misunderstood some of the arguments pointing out the bias of Consumer Reports.

Consumer Reports is indeed biased against American manufacturers, no matter what their ratings currently say. It is only due to the fact that Toyota has gotten so bad in recent years that it is impossible even for CR to cover for them anymore, at the risk of losing whatever perceived credibility they have left. Their recent ratings are not due to them suddenly abandoning their anti-American agenda, but just to cover their tails because their past shoot from the hip odes to Toyota have turned out to be such an embarrassment.

Let's see. Our Ford made 325,000 miles with no problems other than a carburetor, starter and muffler.

Our Dodge made 240,000 miles with two timing belts, one heater hose and two brake jobs.

Our Buick has 277,000 miles with NO repairs.

Yep, those "crappy" domestics just don't last!!

I was an new import owner since the 70's... buying new over and over every few years. I do not think it's funny that the situation deteriorated to quit buying. I do not know where the Consumer Reports magazine comments appeared from, but I do pay attention to manufacturer's reliability and overall quality with owners that have owned new vehicles in under 3 months.

I do not know why Toyota owners are so surprised so much at 5th place. It's related to quality and mechanical issues. Another import is in the lead... VW, which also includes Audi, has the highest satisfaction in 2008 followed by GM. I drove my friend's new Audi and I am fair; it's a great vehicle.

Again this is about full size trucks; anyone own a 2008 Tundra that has also driven 2008 full size trucks on here beside me? I was unimpressed with the Tundra's handling,room and capabilities.

I also doubt I will be buying a Yaris anytime soon by the way.

First of all, I don't believe for a single second that VW or Audi could be anywhere near the top of that list. ALL of the people I know who own or have owned a VW or Audi have had absolutely horrific problems. My Wife's Mom, two of my friends, a former co-worker, and countless other people I have run into have had unbelievably bad problems with these cars. We're talking about cracked intake manifolds, transmissions that burn up, countless electrical gremlins, and beyond. My Wife's Mom's car has a problem where all of the interior lighting will suddenly turn off at night. This is a 2003 Jetta with less than 40,000 miles. NOTHING VW or Audi makes is worth the pot metal they're slapped together with. Just read the reviews here. They're almost hilarious.

Secondly, the only argument so far that seems to be rather persistent is that somehow, as if by magic, the "new" Toyotas and Hondas aren't as good as the "old" models. Ahhh... I see. So far, the reviews for it are no different than the previous generation, meaning that on average, the consumer experience has been positive. My Mom has a 2007 Honda CR-V. 78,000 miles and no problems later, she's a happy camper. In fact, of all the people I know who own a Toyota or Honda - or as you all like to generically call "Imports", none have had any issues whatsoever.

But to be fair, I agree that GM and Ford have made vast improvements in their lineup. In my opinion, the new Malibu and Taurus (which is really a Volvo Platform using many Mazda components) are in some ways nicer than the new Camry, which has become somewhat dull and pedestrian. The fit and finish on many Ford and GM vehicles is superior to what these companies made just 5-10 years ago. But the quality of their products back then was absolutely awful, so it is quite easy to make a dramatic improvement. Even so, GM and Ford are still losing billions of dollars in North America. Their only salvation is that they were smart enough to get into the markets of developing countries such as China, India, and parts of Asia and Africa. Smart move. Otherwise I seriously doubt they would still be around much less be making cars anymore.

The big picture is that automotive manufacturing is less about patriotic pride and nationalism and more about international cooperation. My Tacoma was made 15 miles from where I sit- in Fremont CA. It actually has GM parts under the hood such as the AC compressor and radiator. Other parts come from Denso USA in Tennessee. Still others come from California, Mexico, Japan, and Canada. The brand might be Japanese, but the origin of its components are truly international. This is a 13 year old truck. New vehicles are even more of this nature. The new Ford Fusion is based on a Mazda 5 platform using an engine developed by both Ford and Mazda, with a crank forged in India, and assembled in Mexico. A far cry from the Fords of the 50's, when they were made in Dearborn MI with all American parts made in humming US factories, with US workers toiling away at a press all day.

This range of co-development and manufacturing is what makes modern cars better and better. This is why some brands such as Ford and GM are now doing much better than they were. If they were to have continued down the path that they were a few years ago, they wouldn't have survived. This was because Japanese cars were vastly superior to their products and were gradually eating their lunch. Perhaps this huge disparity between quality no longer exists. But it is safe to say that without that type of competition, GM would still be making throwaway garbage with little regard to consumer satisfaction. So for those of you who continually bash 'imports' as being bad, you have such foreign brands to thank for forcing your beloved 'domestic' brands to get their act together for your own benefit.

Don't get me wrong - GM and Ford have made big improvements. But my money still goes for the brand that has never EVER let me down. Toyota. Until I start seeing the majority of GM or Ford products lasting 15-20 years with 250k on the odometer, I am still not convinced because I have yet to see that happen.