2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

The car manufacturers request a smaller loan than banks.. note a loan not a gift, and are not free to spend it any way they wish as with the banks.

It would be also a good ideal to eliminate all tax concessions and real estate tax exemptions that were given to attract foreign manufacturing. Maybe no warranty meaning past 36-50,000 import may be equivalent to 100,001 miles domestics.

Laughing at the state of the current economy may come back at haunt you as far as future costs of everything you buy including your precious new next import. Why has banking, stock market drop, mortgage defaults and extreme high fuel costs been overlooked in your equation on what has influenced new vehicle purchases this year? What about consumeraffairs.com when you discuss import infallibity? Not buying your comments as 100% quality driven or lack of it. It's people cutting back in my opinion, yet still wanting to keep the homes, pay higher utilities, groceries, jobs and be able to drive. We are in an overall recession my friend.

07:00 IF they get the money, (some of which they ARE asking for as gift, some as a loan), so far they ARE free to spend it any way they wish. Unless the Congressional committee does what they are suggesting, which is to set up another committee that has legal power over the Big 3 to regulate how they spend the money and how they run their companies. As of today, none exists. They went in asking for a GIFT of 25 billion dollars which has mysteriously increased to 38 billion, and none of the 3 CEO's are happy about anyone else having lawful power over how they spend it; that was obvious to anyone who watched the hearing yesterday.

What this all amounts to is the Big 3 wanting to hang around just a little longer. 18 billion dollars will keep GM alive a matter of mere months. That's it. Unless someone that actually knows how to run a company steps in and tells them how things SHOULD be done (they might take a look at Toyota's success as an example) GM is doomed, which I saw coming for years and have been telling Ford and Chevy fans on this site for a long time. All they want to keep doing is living in denial and pretending that any of the Big 3 make cars that are relevant or of quality, like Toyota or Honda does.

To you GM fans that have been asking for 'proof' for the last 500 comments... here's your proof. Told ya so. Toyota has survived, is doing much better than GM, which is blatantly obvious to anyone who can read, see, or hear... and the 100,000 mile warranty you guys keep bragging about means ZERO, just as I said ALL along. Well, that about wraps up the foreign/domestic argument after 500+ comment. Anything else you Ford and GM guys could say would be completely pointless after what has happened to them this week. I won't be checking back to read the replies I'm sure will follow this comment, so... GM and Ford guys, have a nice day, I'll STILL be buying another Toyota next time, especially now that no one can trust the BIG 3 to honor a 10 mile warranty much less a 100,000 mile warranty. See ya.

"buy a Toyota or a Honda. Not only is it a clearly superior vehicle, but they will be in existence after January to back up their warranty."

Oh, yes, by all means, all patriotic Americans should instantly go out and start throwing our country into a depression by buying foreign vehicles. Nothing like destroying the livelihoods of 13 million MORE Americans and causing a depression that will literally be world-wide. This would effect EVERYONE adversely, including import owners. Why people can't grasp this very obvious issue is beyond me. If the auto industry in the U.S. fails, our government will then have to bail out 13,000,000 FAMILIES with food stamps, unemployment compensation, medical care and assistance with housing. With a trillion+ defecit (thanks to W) we are already almost bankrupt as a country (and YES, countries go bankrupt too). If China (who has been financing our disastrous political decisions for 8 years) decided we were a bad credit risk we'd become a "third world country" overnight and owning ANY car would become nearly impossible for any but the very rich.

The scare tactics being used to try and make people believe domestic auto makers won't honor their warranties is not true or not applicable for 2 very good reasons:

1. BY LAW companies in bankruptcy HAVE to provide for honoring their product's warranties and service needs. If you buy a 2009 GM car with a 100,000 mile warranty (higher than ANY Japanese car) your warranty WILL be honored for 100,000 miles. That's the law. There are NO exceptions.

2. How many people can you HONESTLY say you know who have EVER had a major mechanical issue with a domestic vehicle in the first 100,000 miles? Out of a couple of dozen domestics we've bought new, NOT ONE has ever had a mechanical problem in a mere 100,000 miles...EVER. That includes examples from all 3 of the Big Three.

As for Honda or (ESPECIALLY) Toyota being a "superior" vehicle, there have been literally HUNDREDS of challenges on here for PROOF (NOT opinion) of this... and we're STILL waiting.

Finally, it will be a great case of "payback" if the Big Three DO go out of business, because the price of a Corolla or Civic will jump to $40,000 overnight, with no discounts, high interest rates and no incentives of ANY kind. When that happens I will laugh myself silly at all the import fans and just keep driving my domestics for the rest of my life. My dad bought a GM car in 1956. He died in 2004 and the car is still in the family and still runs as good as new (and is still 100% original). My brother died in 1992 and his son only recently sold his 1977 Buick (which never had had a single mechanical problem).

To all of you who have decided to turn this site into a forum for arguing the domestic vs. import question over and over and over again, - I have one question:

Since the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry & Corolla are built in the USA, while the Chevrolet Impala & Chrysler 300's are built in Canada. The PT Cruiser is built in Mexico. What is YOUR definition of a domestic car?

Now can we get back to using this site for reporting on cars & trucks?

Ford has cash and makes good products. They'll be fine and may emerge as the new dominant American manufacturer. Ford is not even asking for a loan, just a reserve "if they need it" to absorb the shock of suppliers shutting down if GM goes down.

I don't care about a warranty, because my experience has shown that American cars are reliable. If Chrysler were to go insolvent and dealers were selling cars at 20% of MSRP to unload them, heck, I'd buy two Calibers and drive them the rest of my life!

Since this review is specific to full size trucks, and Ford F Series full size trucks alone has sold over 7 times more than Tundra annually, and the number one selling vehicle in America has been the Ford F Series for over 20 years... let's still not lose sight this is a review on full size trucks. It's not Camry time here.

Anyone that has bought a new full size truck this year has bought one over function and utility as fuel costs have risen dramatically... small cars and trucks are for totally different applications. They are cheap to buy and run but they cannot meet the applications that large trucks are designed to perform. Maybe it might sink in... sigh...

To 07:46: I'll be very happy to address what a DOMESTIC car is. It is a vehicle built by a company based in the U.S. The vast majority of income from these vehicles goes to the U.S., NOT Japan. This issue has probably been addressed on here a hundred times, but no one ever bothers to actually READ the posts.

Japanese companies ALREADY get massive billion dollar plus "bailouts" in the form of tax exemptions, low cost land leases, etc. They also locate in very poor areas of the country where they can pay half the wages of domestic employees and offer very meager benefits. Unlike the aid being sought by domestic companies, the U.S. will NEVER receive a penny of reimbursement from Toyota or Honda for the money our country has given them. On the other hand, the domestic makers are asking for a LOAN, NOT a tax break. Just as Chrysler did in the 80's, it will be repaid WITH INTEREST.

I'm going to laugh at the import fans if the domestic auto industry should go under. Not only will the resulting depression hit them just as hard as those of us driving reliable domestics, but when they see the price of a Civic or Corolla jump to $40,000 overnight, they'll be BEGGING for a domestic vehicle.

17:42 You Big 3 fans are incredible. Really. You ACTUALLY said, in light of all of what's going on, that people will be begging for domestic vehicles. WOW. Talk about a confusing leap of logic in the dark... new car buyers need a 'domestic' right now about as much as a drowning man needs a bucket of water. I forget... was it you or another commenter that said "Ford has cash and will emerge as the new"... I guess I imagined Ford's CEO sitting in front of Congress begging for billions of dollars. Well, since you say they have money, I guess you won't be upset if they don't get it. And guess what? If they don't, they're finished. It would be smarter right now (and always) to buy a Toyota with three wheels on it than a new domestic.

I am going to buy a new GM full size truck before year end with my double reward points. The best Christmas gift is one you like and pick out for yourself. I am not into 3 wheeled imports, but I actually saw one once.

So what. A car company based in the US. That really doesn't mean much when the company in question: (GM, Ford, Chrysler) does things like slash pension and retirement plans, shut US plants and reopen them in Mexico and Canada, rely less and less on US suppliers and start relying more on companies in China, Brazil, and India for parts - even major components like engines, transmissions, and electronics.

It also doesn't mean much to me that the CEOs of these companies get overpaid and squander it on things like private jets, vast exotic car collections and mansions. If you want to know where the profits go, it doesn't go to Johny Paycheck if that's what you're saying. It goes to corporate fat cats.

12:03 what it does mean is test driving all the new full size trucks and buying one. I look at utility, beds and hitches capability, handling, comfort warranty when I buy. When I write my check I look at what I am towing, not so much politics. Maybe I can talk about politics after I tow and launch my boat from my new full size pickup I'm buying. I was unimpressed with Tundra no matter what flag you are waving... the truck better perform well without a batch of compromises or less capability.

Ford wasn't begging for anything. Ford's CEO decided to REFUSE the loan guarantees because Ford doesn't need it now. Ford's sales have dropped LESS than all Japanese cars sold in the U.S. except Subaru, which sells very few anyway

(USA Today, December 10, 2008).

Ford did not refuse the loans. Ford's comments were that they weren't sure if they needed the loans because they have $19 Billion in cash left. But that's not saying much since they've lost over $24 Billion in less than two years. They aren't outright refusing such a loan. Admittedly they are in better shape than GM or Chrysler, but that doesn't mean much since the other two are finished if the bailout talks fail.

In regards to the comment about capacity and handling, to each his own. Frankly, to me the Tundra not only handles and drives better, but its every bit as capable as the F-150 it directly competes with. But lets do a direct comparison anyway:

Tundra:

Engine 1:

4.7L DOHC 32 Valve V8. 276hp, 313 lbs torque.

Engine 2:

5.7L DOHC 32 Valve V8. 381hp, 401 lbs torque.

Also comes with a choice of 5 or 6 speed transmission.

Ford F150:

Engine 1: 4.6L SOHC 16 valve V8. 248hp, 294 lbs torque.

Engine 2: 5.4L SOHC 24 valve V8. 300HP, 365 lbs torque.

Choice of a 4 speed transmission.

So a direct comparison actually shows that the Tundra has more HP, more torque, a wider selection of transmissions, a more advanced engine design, and greater towing capacity.

So if I personally wanted to haul less, I'd probably go with the F150. More, I'd go with a Tundra because it's actually a more powerful truck.

I went with a new Silverado and added some mild performance upgrades. Light to light, stock, the Tundra again stock is faster. But look at handling, comfort, ride, bed carrying, people carrying, warranty and I went GM again. I like fast cars light to light, but with a truck I like a mixture of features, utility with power with handling, not just power by itself.