2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

09:43 Well, I guess Toyota discontinuing the Tundra would be better than the Big 3 discontinuing their existence due to poor products and lost sales, which will likely happen. The only Toyota's I, and everyone I know that owns them, that have problems before 60,000 miles (or 160,000) are the ones spoken of online by domestic owners who can't stand the fact that a foreign company makes way better cars and trucks than the Big 3 do or ever did.

"I just heard that Toyota is planning to discontinue building the Tundra (and I can see why) so I guess this entire discussion will soon become pretty much irrelevant".

Where did you hear that? I ran a couple of searches to no avail. I saw that Toyota is planning a heavy duty Tundra. Are you sure that's not the one getting discontinued? There was also a supercharged version making over 500hp. Maybe that's the one?

400,000 miles is common for a Ranger? Maybe you should have come over and talked to the Ranger I had (thankfully long gone) that broke down twice a week between 70,000 and 140,000; which I poured several hundreds of dollars into to make it get to that point.

The Ford Ranger was the single worst vehicle I've owned yet. I'd have been financially further ahead to have bought it and then pushed it off a cliff. Would have saved me a lot of swearing and money, and walking half way home from somewhere a few times. Never had a Toyota leave me stranded, not even during serious off-roading. All I wanted from the Ranger was a ride to work on the road, and that was apparently too much to ask from Ford.

Tundra sales have plummeted (they were never very good) and Toyota is planning to delay opening its new plant in Mississippi indefinitely due to virtually no interest in the Tundra and a 50% drop in sales of the problem-plagued Prius. It's possible that Tundra production might be resumed if the economy improved and they could somehow improve the bad reputation the Tundra has earned with massive initial problems. Everyone I know who has traded a Tundra traded it for a Ford or Chevy due to poor satisfaction and problems with the early Tundras.

Basically, this argument will never-ever end. But I'll summarize what I've been reading on these reviews from all the die hard domestic fans:

1: " American cars are better. I know because my Grandpappy owned three and NONE had any problems" (Good, I know everyone in my family, plus all my friends and co-workers who own Toyotas seldom if ever have problem either.)

2: "I HATE foreign cars. They are ALL bad. But I LOVE the Chevy Aveo, Ford Fusion which is top-notch, Ford Escort, Ford Ranger, and Pontiac GTOS." (ironic since these are all actually partly or entirely foreign-made)

3: " I admit that Toyotas and Hondas WERE good back in the 80's, but you Toyota fans don't have a legitimate argument because none of the NEW Toyotas are good." (funny since of the three newer Toyota in our family, NONE have had any problems.

4: " Toyotas are BAD because I can prove it with a few reviews of sludging engines and the total of 20 faulty camshafts in the Tundra engine." (Of course they totally ignore the fact that GM alone has had more recalls and problems than all three of the biggest Japanese automakers combined, and probably just from one or two models.)

5: " The Tundra isn't a REAL man's truck. I know because I don't see any of them here in Kentucky" (Yup. Not in KY, but come out to California - only the most populated state in the US and you'll find PLENTY of them.)

6: " I buy American because it helps American companies." (yes, and up until recently, that money helped CEOs from Ford and GM fly in private jets.

7: "American cars are now better because this report says they're better in initial quality" (I could care less since I'm more concerned about long-term reliability)

I could go on and on. Let me know if I missed any.

"Nobody make s a better truck than Toyota. Some companies make larger ones with more towing capacity, but NOBODY makes a more reliable, higher quality, tougher truck than Toyota. I've said this before, but the true test of a truck isn't on the pavement. It's off road where they take a real beating. Towing a load on smooth pavement can't match the abuse a truck takes when it's being twisted, bounced, and over-revved off road. And anyone with any off road experience knows that Toyota can't be touched".

Since you are responding to my comment, I'll fill you in a little bit about the perspective from which I come. My last truck was a 2000 Toyota Tundra, which was rated above average by Consumer Reports when I bought it used in 2002. It was a very good vehicle. Not stiff enough for towing heavy loads, but a very fine off-roader. I took it 4WDing a number of times; Once by Ouray, CO. It was very good off-road for a truck because of its high clearance and comparatively short length. The only negative was that it suffered from axle hop in mud or snow. At that time, though, Consumer Reports also rated the F150 above average which provided me with a viable alternative in a slightly heavier-duty truck. I chose the Tundra partly because of Toyota's reputation for reliability and wasn't disappointed. It was a very close cousin to perfect until I sold it in 08.

I'm just becoming more encouraged by signs of improvement from Detroit. The mere fact that I think that the average reliability of past Toyota products (average of all products) has been better than their American counterparts' doesn't make me hope for the demise of an industry that underpins American manufacturing. So when I see signs of improvement at Ford and elsewhere, I'm perfectly willing to cheer them on and even plunk my money down when the time comes.

One point: I think the data suggests that Ford has risen to better than merely the worst of a bad lot. The last Consumer Reports said that Ford now has an "average" corporate rating when all their models are included in the sample. That's not bad and I hope to see continued improvement for the sake of all the folks who rely upon them for a job or a vehicle. Cheers.

10:28;

Now take all of that and apply it to pro-foreign commenters, and you'll have about covered it all.

10:28 First of all you were off regarding the profession. Whatever labeling you are making an effort to prove, is not indicative of full size truck ownership. If I talk about Chevrolets and I have owned some pretty nice ones including Corvettes. I would have no problem going to Bowling Green, Ky. to pick up my new order.

I firmly believe anyone buying a new 2009, not languishing in an old vehicle that makes them the absolute authority... should test drive every single comparable model in their category and buy in a set price range. Walking into any showroom and saying "give me another only bigger" may be fine is you own a small Toyota now. If that works for you fine.

Ignoring or side-stepping serious mechanical concerns on late models both on here and consumeraffairs.com is foolhardy.

Love what you own and that's great.

I test them all and have a list of criteria on full size trucks. I would like to know what others are buying their full size trucks on here at the moment. If you are walking into a showroom what's the agenda?

Applying small car, small truck analogies on a full size truck review has zero applications. My truck and 2 cars are garage kept, not parked out by the outhouse as you insinuate domestic owners might.

I dwell on features and benefits and testing all before you buy... not hoping to persuade anyone to buy by insult or any other desperate measures. People are not forced and are usually taking more time to test, compare and become more and more educated on new models, not on something old that someone has kept and has no new basis of comparison to reflect upon.

10:28 You didn't miss many. And thanks for the laugh. So true. They'll go on and ON about the camshaft in the Tundra, which was only a very small number and remedied a long time ago, but they choose to ignore the mountain of recalls that the Big 3 have always had, which are of course much more frequent, almost always handled improperly, and usually far more serious and negligent. Ha. But... as long as they can find ONE issue that Toyota has had... they must be bad. Too funny. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

You have to love that backwoods logic too... Ford trucks must be better because they can haul more. Wow. Dump trucks must be the most reliable vehicles on the road because they can haul a LOT! It makes sense right? Ford and Chevy make cheaper cars, have tons of recalls on them, and are consistently rated worse than Japanese cars, yet are SOMEhow better. Cheaper and better. Right. Duh. If they REALLY were less expensive AND better then Toyota and Honda would never have gotten off the ground in the U.S.

The fact is, people pay a little more for a far better automobile when they buy Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. If you don't want to pay the price; you get a piece of crap Ford or Chevy. But, according the Big 3 fans on this site, they all get 600,000 miles and you don't even have to change the oil. Right.

You want a junk car? Buy a Chevy. Want a good one? Buy a Toyota.

First off, statistics don't lie. Our personal experience (not some mythical "friend's") is as follows:

1) 30+ domestics owned in over 30 years. None ever had a single engine or transmission replaced, or any major repairs of any kind. We own 3 to 4 cars at a time and some of these vehicles were kept for nearly 20 years. Several made over 200,000 miles, and one (a Ford) made over 300,000 miles. We also owned 3 imports during the 80's and 90's (when they were SUPPOSED to be "good"). Only 1 made 100,000 miles, and all of them were far less reliable than ANY of our domestics. Do the statistical probability of getting 30 GOOD vehicles from a supposedly BAD manufacturer, and 3 BAD vehicles from supposedly GOOD manufacturers.

2) I don't "hate" foreign cars. I just have far better things to do with my money than spend it on cars with high degrees of problems and very short warranties. I also don't care for sitting around a dealership all day waiting for repairs when I can spend my time more productively.

3) ALL of our 80's and 90's imports were less than stellar in reliability and VERY EXPENSIVE in repairs. I don't think they were any better in the "good old days".

4) It's hilarious how the number of defective Toyota engines has "magically" dwindled from THOUSANDS to TWENTY!!

That Toyota "engine fairy" must be at it again!!!

5) The Tundra ISN'T a real truck. How many heavy construction jobs do you see using the puny and unreliable Tundra?? We own two companies. There is not a Tundra in either fleet. Longer warranties and better service are essential to any company's bottom line. We can't have vehicles constantly out for repairs. That's why ours are all Ford, Chevy or Dodge.

6) Japanese auto executives fly in private jets too. I have yet to read of one of them driving to a meeting in a Corolla. And buying from American companies DOES help the American economy. Study your basic economics 101.

7) Domestic vehicles ARE rated higher than many imports. Fusion DOES outrank Camry and Accord, just as most domestics outrank most Mercedes. And considering that two of our current vehicles are rated "much worse than average" and NEITHER has given us a single problem other than a burned out light bulb in 65,000 miles and 75,000 miles respectively I'm not overly concerned about Japanese-biased ratings at this point. When a DOMESTIC gets a decent rating in biased media, it HAS to be REALLY GOOD.

Better in "initial quality" means best right out of the shoot. I would suspect that means imports steadily decline thereafter. I know my latest Japanese imports fell apart prematurely... if you want to drop 3-4 grand a pop on major mechanical issues on a weak warranty car/truck fine.

I respect my grandparents and parents advice as well. My family has owned many collectible cars over the years, are computer and internet savvy and expect outstanding dealer service to this day. Only a fool would buy without testing thoroughly and comparing all. My grandfather (not grandpappy) reminds me a great deal of Carroll Shelby. Implying family of being ignorant with mechanical knowledge attained over many years is far from accurate. If you are buying a new full size truck and also own 1 or 2 other new cars, as well you are typically not poverty stricken or illiterate.

I have equipped my truck with loads of amenities, yet it is quite low key non flash on the exterior. I go from car, SUV, truck without any labeling

career path or socio economic status. It's a useful practical addition to own.

11:51 I don't want to see the demise of the Big 3 either. I truly hope they continue to improve and actually offer Toyota and Honda some competition. Not likely though. Toyota and Honda have decades of brilliant engine design under their belts and each of the Big 3 may just be beginning to realize the fact that they need to make something comparable to those imports. It'll take a lot longer to actually do it. Toyota and Honda have specialized in making the most efficient, reliable vehicles anywhere, and are rated as the highest in both categories. Overall. No, I don't need to hear about the Ford Fusion's "initial quality" ratings all over again. That's one car, and it's no match for the imports' proven track record of long term reliability; something that the Big 3 haven't lived up to.

I just have a problem with the logic of the domestic fans: how they justify their opinions such as "Ford is good" and "Toyota is bad" makes absolutely no sense. You can't single out ONE car like the Fusion and pretend it makes all Ford's decent. And you can't point to one single problem that Toyota has had and condemn the whole line.

The fact that these domestic owners like to skirt around is that Toyota, Honda, and Japanese automobiles in general have been wiping the floor with the Big 3 for a couple decades, consistently, when it comes to quality and reliability ratings. That's a fact. If some Ford owner out there doesn't agree with it; too bad. Still fact.

It's also fact that domestics make more return trips the garage. Also fact; proven by surveys conducted on original owners of 3 year old cars... the domestics make more warranty (and out of warranty) trips back to the garage. They break down more and have more issues. Fact. Again, if a Ford owner out there doesn't like that, too bad. Still fact.

11:41 I maintain my domestic full size drivetrain is far superior to the Tundra; the topic of this review?

Explain how such a limited Toyota large truck lineup surpasses better load, towing capability, ride, handling, better cost to own over 5 years on Edmunds with my new GM Silverado and with a far superior warranty. It drifts off over and over to fuel efficient little cars. There is just no basis of comparison comparing a little car to large full size trucks carrying loads and towing. The little imports drivetrain and weak bumper will be splattered all over the road. Hook up a hitch and fill the trunk up. Ever see the Home Depot picture of the overloaded car with building materials that a fool tried to use as a truck? Good gas mileage on the way there empty however.

I have never bought a new full size truck and discussed Civics, Corollas, Focue, Cobalts when I write my check for a new full size. If I were buying a little truck, I could see it to a point, but not full size models.

"It's also fact that domestics make more return trips the garage. Also fact; proven by surveys conducted on original owners of 3 year old cars... the domestics make more warranty (and out of warranty) trips back to the garage. They break down more and have more issues. Fact. Again, if a Ford owner out there doesn't like that, too bad. Still fact."

It would be nice to see a SOURCE cited for these "surveys". Where and when were they done? In what source were they published? (let me guess: A Toyota sales brochure, no doubt). We've asked repeatedly for a VALID and VERIFIABLE frequency of repair comparison. If you have it, please provide it (of course I won't hold my breath).

I buy new Silverados. With the amount of driving and towing I do, my Toyota warranty would be up in 1 1/2 years.

Length of ownership is one thing... actual mileage and especially much of it towing brings out a vehicle's strengths and weaknesses.

I buy new ones and sell around 80,000. There hasn't been any issues at that mileage other than I like newer features and order either more options or less of others not being used. I also examine aftermarket products that add versatility.

I like the utility of a fully functional full size pick up bed and hate caps. I went with an aftermarket Trac Rac system with my Knaack Weatherguard box, cargo containment that can be locked or easily removed with the slide rail system. Keeps the clean lines of the truck.

I personally dislike a lot of aftermarket garbage... load of lights and gaudy exterior accessories and the huge noisy hard riding tires and lifts.

I like upgrading engine performance without a lot of advertisement.

I'm not having repair issues. Granted I do not keep every truck 250,000 miles by choice, not out of necessity. I like drivability, handling, features, ride and great warranty that so far I haven't had to use.

I am fickle for the best and latest new vehicle... if I like something I move on it. If Toyota ever makes a better full size truck, I may buy one someday... it's not now.