2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

19:20 I can't remember the specific source, and no, it wasn't a Toyota brochure, of course. I listed it a while back; something like Edmunds, maybe Consumer Reports; domestic fans on this site chose to simply tell me I was wrong or that the source was wrong, so why would I bother looking it up again? If I can't convince them of simple facts, then I'm done arguing because their opinions don't matter anyway. It's the same as telling them that the air they breathe has oxygen in it, and then they ask where I read it and tell me I'm wrong. I'm not looking up the source again only to have some Ford fan tell me that the facts are wrong and their opinion is right.

Toyota's make less trips to the garage. Fact. Period. Do some research and you'll come up with the same information. We Toyota owners already knew it without being told.

Why argue with strangers? Your opinion is your opinion... period. Not everyone shares the same repair warranty and out of warranty experiences based on their own personal direct ownership especially recent imports.... period.

The nice thing about this site is reading many collective comments, going to consumeraffairs.com and buying the car you like owning and driving the best as well... period. Maybe I just had a few import lemons in a row maybe just a remarkable coincidence. I like seeing everyone testing both... if that's not a valid an argument (which you seem to prefer) what is?

A lot of people on here have made frequent trips to the garage and are commenting that fact. First hand ownership strikes a nerve more so than someone than read something somewhere but forgot where it was. And then say thats a fact thats the way it is. Go to consumeraffairs.com and look at Toyota... newer ones. I remember seeing what I wanted to know on there. That's a fact and I remember where I read it.

OK, since I'm bored at the moment and have a few minutes, I will yet again prove all of these domestic fans completely wrong. You say the Big 3 make better automobiles than Toyota and Honda. You are wrong, and here's just a few examples of the proof that's already been offered here many times: These are printed from:

1. Motor Trend: without quoting, they say (in 2008) that Ford leads the domestics in reliability, GM is a mixed bag, and Dodge doesn't even enter into the running with only TWO vehicles with an average reliability rating. Japanese automobiles are still the most reliable, by a large margin.

2. Consumer Reports: "Ford's new sedan's shine among the domestics, but Japanese are still the most reliable by far" (their words). Quoting again (2008).."Of the 47 vehicles studied, (top 47 most reliable) 39 were Japanese, and only 7 of those were anything other than Toyota or Honda." More proof.

3. More from Motor Trend: Top 5 most reliable brands. 1. Scion 2. Acura 3. Honda 4. Toyota 5. Lexus. All Japanese. Proof again.

4. Car and Driver: Japanese cars are the most reliable, with Toyota's Prius leading all others.

Is that enough proof for you? I can find a lot more just like this. Ford, while improving, is not anywhere close to the reliability of Japanese cars. GM is extremely hit and miss, not really in the running, and Chrysler is basically a joke. Not even in the running.

So... other than stories about long-running domestics that are impossible to prove, let's see some proof from you domestic owners. The fact is, you won't offer any because it doesn't exist. Read the information above again. There are the facts. And by the way, citing the Ford Fusion doesn't mean anything. ONE car from a domestic automaker doesn't save Ford from sub-par ratings overall, and GM and Dodge don't even have a leg to stand on.

Other than your opinions, I'd be interested to see what you come up with. There's your proof, AGAIN.

The best proof is going to an import dealer waiting area and watching us write out the big checks for repair.

First hand direct ownership is the most telling of all. Why not encourage everyone to get behind the wheel and test drive every single new available vehicle in their price range? You can use publications to certainly help you. Since this is about full size trucks or at least it use to be... get out and drive them.

I am 6'2, maybe the seating position even with adjustments is awful... maybe the 5'1" driver cannot get in a decent enough position to drive and have to pay for a dreadful ride for 4 years.

What motor, gearing are you in the mountains or driving flat expressionless roadways. What are you carrying load wise or towing? Instead of carrying armfuls of publications, bring printouts off your computer or study specs pertaining to the specific vehicle you are buying. Maybe carrying Scion info to the dealership when they order a new full size truck may help the dealer salesman get a higher price from you.

I get the best buy when they know I have tested both import and domestic and they better work hard before and after the sale. I am a repeat buyer; it was one import after another for years and I am sure we were hosed. When your car or truck quit running and you are late for work or upset repeat visits, you look around.

If the Tundra is so terrific, why such dismal sales results even when the economy was going full speed a while back? Have you ever driven brand new domestic full sizes and then a Tundra the same day. Or is it walking around a lot on Sunday when the dealerships are closed looking at paint and peering in windows? I couldn't be bothered.... I have a requirement or specific applications and I get the keys.

Go from one dealer to another while the driving experience is fresh and get the greatest list of elements addressed. Then I write a check and waste no one's time.

"Toyota's make less trips to the garage. Fact. Period. Do some research and you'll come up with the same information. We Toyota owners already knew it without being told."

We're STILL waiting for you to cite some PROOF of this. Opinions based on 20-year-old domestics with 200,000 miles on them are not valid. Just WHERE are we to find this mythical "research"?? Please CITE SOURCES.

How can any automotive magazine, after driving a car several miles, make ANY valid assessment of how RELIABLE it is? Only genuine frequency of repair records can do this. I'd like to see THOSE (but I know I won't).

Just to solidify the facts a little more, here's some more proof of Japanese auto reliability from Consumer Reports:

- All 10 of their most reliable automobiles, from every category (small car, family car, small truck, etc) were Japanese with the exception of one; the Pontiac Vibe. 9 out of 10.

- Most reliable small cars? All Toyota and Honda. The whole list.

- Family cars? Top 4 were Toyota's and Honda's. Yeah, the great hope of Ford fans, the Fusion was in there. Behind two Toyota's and two Honda's, of course.

- Best large cars? All six were Japanese, with the exception of one Lincoln, which was third or fourth place

- Luxury cars? Lexus (obviously) and Infiniti.

- "Sporty" cars? All 6 Japanese.

- Wagons/minivans; the Pontiac Vibe came in first, the rest were all Japanese. 4 of 5.

- Small SUV's; all 6 Japanese, topped (of course) by; guess... Toyota and Honda. Same with large SUV's; all 6 Toyota/Honda.

- Pickup trucks? All four Japanese. Of course.

05:34 Which part of consumeraffairs were you talking about? The part where they said "Toyota has one of the highest customer satisfaction records around and is about to displace GM as the leading auto seller?" OR... the part where they tell you that Toyota Camry was just named car of the year? OR... the part where it explains how Toyota, already the most fuel efficient vehicles in the world (along with Honda) are redesigning their already superior engines to increase gas mileage by 5%?

OR...well, I could go on and on. Yeah, I read the negative comments by owners. Guess what? If you're hunting for dirt about Toyota, I can guarantee you that for every ounce you find about Toyota, I will provide you with a TON for each of the Big 3. Toyota's are the better vehicles, obviously.

Consumer Reports findings ARE based on frequency of repair records. Toyota and Honda break down less - there's your proof. Yet again.

I offer proof from credible sources; several of them, Ford and GM fans offer nothing but opinion and stories.

21:16 obviously you did not read the earlier consumer affairs.com Toyota mechanical issues sludging, braking, air bags links.

I know you will refer to a fuel filler on Fords vs. condemn your own brand. It's amazing the "head in the sand" viewpoint based on ownership of a 15 year old small import truck and a few small cars next door. I wish I could have "found you" when I was presented with high import repair bills. Maybe it would have been free because it's absolutely impossible to follow exact mfr. recommended dealer service intervals on multiple new imports that literally impossible never have a major issue.

I can go for free mechanical repairs; where do you recommend and what dealership do you have that will eliminate my concerns? Dream on my friend.

It literally drops to small imports and cars on a full size truck review... Tundras should be selling bumper to bumper tractor trailer loads as they are the best. I was quite unimpressed driving them, guess I should test drive a Scion before my next new truck requirement.

17th Jan 2009, 15:54.

Just wanted to correct something you typed. The Pontiac Vibe is a re-badged Toyota Matrix. The Pontiac salespeople will even brag about this if you go to the lot and look at one of them. I found this out last year when my wife wanted a new vehicle, and the Vibe was listed as one she wanted to look at.

Myths die hard. Why anyone would buy a car built by a foreign owned manufacturer in these tough economic times is hard enough to understand, even if the vehicles were somehow superior (and not a SHRED of real evidence indicates that they are). If you want to extend the recession into a depression, you live in a country that gives you that freedom, even if it hurts you as well as your fellow citizens.

What I don't accept is an argument that has never had a SHRED of evidence to back it up. The only valid proof of any car's reliability is either 1) Frequency of repair reports, or 2) Real owner experience. Since Japanese car dealers are not about to let anyone know just how unreliable the new imports are, you will NOT see any frequency of repair reports on them.

If you read owner's experiences, you'll see that the domestic trucks are solid, reliable and get the job done. Owners report 200,000 miles or more on F-150's, Silverados and Dodge Rams.

Company owners (and my family falls in that category) use 100% domestic trucks and vans. We have to in order to make a profit in these tough times. We can't afford to be without a truck for days at a time because of bad engines (which Toyota is noted for lately) or accidents caused by defective brakes or front suspension (again, a Tundra trademark). With GM's 100,000 mile warranty the trucks are basically total profit for the first 5 years with zero repair costs. Compare that to Tundra's 36,000 mile warranty and much higher initial cost, and few business owners are going to go that route and lose thousands of dollars.

So what large SUV's and large pick up relevance were commented upon while you are on a full size truck review?

The thing with publications is you can pick and choose. I maintain the best way to buy a full size truck is make a large list of criteria and see who has the most elements present before you buy. Do not forget to test drive them all. The last thing you want to do is be stuck with a long term car loan riding in a crappy riding vehicle. I read someone bought a Checker for reliability... great, would I ever want one? Hardly.

I would rather research the specs loads, towing, ride, handling, people carrying capability, features, best warranty. I did that and did not buy a Tundra. If you are buying a Prius maybe your theory works.

It's important to get as many elements as you need and buy a new full size pickup. Application for a full size is the most important... it's likely the negative commenter even owns a new full size as their comments seem carlike or very small in their approach.

I walk in a dealer and tell them straight up I have towing in mind. I want reliability as well and not a lousy warranty that is up in our house in under 2 years. Owning a full size truck that is being functional, not just a substitute for a car or because it has higher ground clearance to off road, is not enough to perhaps move up and consider the advantages of full size truck ownership.

This has become a car and light truck review it seems... remember what the topic is. If you are spending another $10,000 plus, is there ever an application in mind over the small vehicle mentality? But if you never buy or own one, this may totally escape your reasoning.

15:59 The evidence is there and I presented it. Whether or not you chose to stay in denial about facts is up to you.

I don't care what owners on this site or any other say about anything, because none of it can be proved.

Forget the high-mileage stories, the postings about opinion. What can be reported as FACT is that all of the actual credible sources, all the major ones that I listed, the largest and most widely know automotive publications show Japanese vehicles as the most reliable. Period.

So go ahead and tell me more stories about your Fords and Chevy's. It's entertaining to a Toyota owner, knowing that I drive the most reliable vehicle made.