2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

Again... when discussing the 'problems' of Toyota, the arguments here are basically making mountains out of ant hills. Nobody seemed to read my previous statement on this- but I'll simplify them:

Camry: Total No. affected: Less than 1/2 of 1% of the total production for the V6, 6 speed automatic models. The problem was a faulty snap ring. problem solved.

Tundra: 20 TOTAL engines affected with faulty cams. 20 out of 30,000. Problem remedied, trucks affected repaired if owners chooses to do so.

Lastly, to the guy mentioning that the Tundra is for "small car minded people", well that's rather interesting considering the Tundra has more HP, more torque, more towing capacity, plus it's overall larger than the equivalent F-150 or Silverado.

"I enjoy reading Consumer Reports tremendously, and I keep all my old issues in the garage. So I went out and checked. Sure enough, in the 2006 and 2007 Buyers Guides, there are those red half circles for the Camry meaning above average. Then in 2008 it says "Reliability of the V6 dropped to below average and it is no longer recommended." No explanation, no apologies"

In 2008 Consumer Reports had enough data on the NEW MODEL (07) to stop recommending it. There WAS an explanation in the annual auto issue and no apology was necessary unless it came from Toyota. They explained that the 07 Camry has a 6 speed automatic (unlike the 4 cylinder) that has been troublesome -- something about the shift program if I remember right. Remember there is a lag between the introduction of a new model and Consumer Reports having enough data to either recommend or criticize it. Pay attention to the data section. It's broken down by model year, so your 2006 and 2007 Buying Guides wouldn't have data on 07 Camrys yet. In fact I have the 07 Buying Guide open in front of me and they only have ratings up to 05.

They released early info on 07 Camrys, Tundras, and a Lexus model last year (because they had compiled enough data already to be concerned and thought readers should be aware of the large scale problems). According to Consumer Reports, all of these vehicles' problems are being addressed by Toyota, but their overall rating is still only about average -- significant teething problems for Toyotas.

The truth is that there is no way to know for sure that a new model will be reliable no matter what its source is. If you want to be more sure, wait a year or two until Consumer Reports has data on it. Then their predicted reliability is likely to be accurate. Again, I hope this helps to clarify things.

"Camry: Total No. affected: Less than 1/2 of 1% of the total production for the V6, 6 speed automatic models. The problem was a faulty snap ring. problem solved.

Tundra: 20 TOTAL engines affected with faulty cams. 20 out of 30,000. Problem remedied, trucks affected repaired if owners chooses to do so".

I've read that before too. Odd, though, because that doesn't account for Consumer Reports' negative rating. Their sample would have had to include some of those faulty engines and transmissions -- unlikely if there were so few. Plus the Tundra also had some faulty propeller shafts as well. I'd like to know what other problems have come up in the sample that concerned them so much. Anyway... I'm not arguing with you; I'm just adding some questions that Consumer Reports could probably easily answer. I can't ask them, though, because I'm not a member anymore. Oh well...

Tundra is not for small minded individuals. In fact I tested one and considered acquiring a new one.

If you read the previous post, it seems that comments pertaining to full size trucks that lack utility or function of a full size... seem like they are emanating from a small truck "Tacoma" owner and individuals applying small car like analogies on a full size truck review.

Mechanically it can be A-1 if that's the point you are addressing however... you seem to forget why individuals buy larger full size vehicles to begin with. It seems all that is lost.

Sure the Tundra has power, but I found it in a straight line. I feel the handling, room, comfort, capability as far as load handling and towing characteristics are far better in my new domestic.

Have you driven both lately, meaning 2 or 3 new full size ones at least? If you take it a step forward and own and live with a full size truck, it gives even better insight.

I am not seeing any issues anyway... but again function, utility aspect comes first. So again a Tundra is a larger truck... I highly recommend buying a brand new full size after owning small trucks, if you are so devoted with much time and space enamored with these full size vehicles. Gets tiring reading about Camrys and small trucks on here though.

If the only problem with the Camry was just the blip with the 1/2 of 1% snap ring in the transmission, they would have a better rating than the "average predicted reliability" that is now showing in the January 2009 Consumer Reports magazine for both the V6 and 4 cylinder.

17:45 I wish I could take you in a ride in a Dodge Viper or a GM Vette C5 or a Z06, and then rave on about your Toyotas. Toyota V6 0-60 in 9 seconds must be utterly fantastic?

I also drove an NSX when they first came out; nicely balanced but overpriced.

Other than the Toyota Supra, great in a straight line but poor handling... I have yet to ever gotten excited whatsover over any relatively recent Toyota.

Sorry your exposure is limited to Chevettes, you must be kidding. The generalization of brands by bottom end comparisons is such a shame. Maybe I bore easily reading bland boring basic car comments.

Even full size trucks can be tastefully upgraded with nice performance features to make them fun to drive. But maybe fun to drive isn't necessary, it seems just a vehicle and Consumer Reports that chooses what you buy vs. what you enjoy and like.

Why not continue the Tundra conversation after reading....

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_ball_joints.html

And then go down to the 3-4 million Toyotas with sludging engine issues next.

Selective reading is why I insist on personal first hand ownership, bought new, and my own personal repairs monitored since inception.

If it happens 2-3 times in a row, I look at maybe stronger elements lacking in my previous vehicle and try yet again. I am not personally locked into a nameplate, only best service and less issues to buy yet again the next one.

Used Car Verdict. Reliability "Much Worse than average" Toyota Tundra 2007 (V8 4WD)

New Car Prediction. Reliability "Much Worse than average" Toyota Tundra 2007 (V8 4WD)

Page 261 Consumer Reports Ratings and Pricing Guide Winter 2009.

"as a result, we cannot recommend it." page 197.

On the newstands now. You can go down to the grocery store and read it for yourself.

It's hilarious how the thousands of seriously defective Toyota engines has magically dropped to "20". It never ceases to amaze me how import fans continue to grasp at straws to try and salvage a myth that Japanese vehicles are better. They have never yet provided a shred of hard evidence to back up their claims, and several thousand bad engines becomes "20".

As for Consumer Reports, I hate to burst your bubble, but Ford is rated HIGHER than either Camry OR Accord. If you're going to cite magazines, at least try to pick one that actually backs up your claims.

The Tundra is pretty much a thing of the past now anyway. Toyota has halted production and due to virtually no sales they will probably not resume production of it or the gas-guzzling and equally unreliable Sequoia.

Motor Trend wisely washed its hands of the Tundra and chose the Ford F-150 (once again) as Truck of the Year. Almost every day I see one or more new F-150's, Silverados or Rams with a new vehicle drive-out tag. I haven't seen a new Tundra in several months. All I can say is "Good riddance".

"Their sample would have had to include some of those faulty engines and transmissions -- unlikely if there were so few."

But their report was specifically for the Camry V6, 6 speed models. These are the top of the line Camry, and not exactly the biggest seller of the model, hence their production numbers are likely much lower than the other typical 4 cylinder and V6 5 speed automatic models. Thus it makes sense that a single trim of a model could be singled out and not recommended due to a flaw.

But the argument here is being blown out of proportion by the Import haters, whom point at this tiny selection of affected vehicles as indicating that Toyota's entire lineup is bad.

"As for Consumer Reports, I hate to burst your bubble, but Ford is rated HIGHER than either Camry OR Accord. If you're going to cite magazines, at least try to pick one that actually backs up your claims".

I'm the one (at least the main one I think) who has been promoting "Consumer Reports" data here on the forum. I didn't promote them simply because they support any particular claim about overall reliability.

This is a (ostensibly) 2002 Tundra forum. Back in 02 the Tundra was recommended because, while it was imperfect, the problems were still below the average pickup. However the new 07+ Tundra isn't recommended for the converse reason.

Consumer Reports has been reporting for a couple of years about the improvement of American makes and the more hit-and-miss quality (than has been true in the past) of Japanese-based imports. Ford has indeed improved... so has GM. Toyota has had several major introduction stumbles. Nissan has experienced very poor ratings on their Titan and Armada. They've also had a significantly lower corporate reliability average.

On the other hand -- just to cherry pick a bit -- the Fusion and Malibu have had few problems in their first years. Corporate quality averages still are better for Japanese based companies but since we don't buy companies --- we buy cars --- we need to be more informed than the customer who simply looks at country or company of origin to determine if the vehicle is reliable.

As I mentioned before, GM took out an advertisement basically apologizing for allowing their quality and innovation fall below industry standards. Who are WE to disagree with THEM? Toyota and Honda are widely seen as SETTING the industry standard for reliability. But...

They haven't been perfect as of late. This has been true of core products -- especially for Toyota. And Ford and GM are improving. So watch the reliability ratings data closely before purchase because "times -- they are a'changin'".

"But their report was specifically for the Camry V6, 6 speed models. These are the top of the line Camry, and not exactly the biggest seller of the model, hence their production numbers are likely much lower than the other typical 4 cylinder and V6 5 speed automatic models. Thus it makes sense that a single trim of a model could be singled out and not recommended due to a flaw".

I suspect you're right. But, while true, I think this shows that something at Toyota is slipping because it didn't happen in the past. Toyota and Honda could be relied upon to produce "fully baked" models from the outset.

The problems, though they affected so few, are surprising and concerning because Consumer Reports paints with the same brush whether it's an American, European, Korean, or Japanese vehicle.

The surprising things were the fundamental nature of the problems, the explanation (pushed into early production), and the importance of the models in question. Since I wouldn't give GM a pass if they did the same thing, I won't do the same for Toyota.

Most vehicles that Toyota has produced over many model years have been reliable from start to finish. We've grown accustomed to it... this just serves to prove that a degree of caution is in order no matter what company you buy from.

Now Ford and GM are producing some very reliable vehicles and some Japanese companies are producing some more trouble-prone models. As buyers, we need to be smart enough to avoid prejudices... this is true irregardless of whether or not it plays into the hands of the pro-domestic crowd. If a Fusion or Malibu is better than a Camry, for example, why shouldn't people buy it? But if a Civic is better than a Cobalt, for example, people shouldn't reward GM's poorer design by purchasing it.

Wait for GM to build something that better suits you. You do your country no favors by rewarding mediocrity. I'm voting for our automakers' success, but success should, in my opinion, be based upon improvement.

"It's hilarious how the thousands of seriously defective Toyota engines has magically dropped to "20"."

Its even funnier if the opposite is true, wouldn't you say?

Let's face it...we're jousting at ghosts. We don't know if these figures are accurate; The 20 is Toyota's figure (for the 2007 Tundra), the "thousands" figure is based on other model years taken cumulatively and anecdotally. The truth may be somewhere in the middle. So let's stop arguing. OK?

00:10 Talk about grasping at straws...

#1. Everything you said was untrue and non-factual.

#2 Ford isn't rated higher than Toyota and never has been in any major publication. You may have found a single model that was (let me guess... the Ford Fusion), but overall, and it always has been and still is, Japanese automobiles are higher rated.

#3 The F-150 isn't rated higher than the Tundra, and if you care to mention about it being "truck of the year", please remember that the Tundra has been also.

#4 Import fans don't need to grasp at straws to prove the obvious superiority of Japanese automobiles, since we have the ratings and the proof to back it up.

#5 You may like Fords, and that's fine, but Toyota makes the better cars and trucks. Refer to a bunch of the earlier comments in which proof of this is repeatedly cited. Of course, if you actually recognized and accepted these facts, you'd be driving Toyota's, so I'm not holding my breath.

I can't wait to read the response to this, as usual. I can see it now..."fords are better, because I like 'em"...

"But their report was specifically for the Camry V6, 6 speed models. These are the top of the line Camry, and not exactly the biggest seller of the model, hence their production numbers are likely much lower than the other typical 4 cylinder and V6 5 speed automatic models. Thus it makes sense that a single trim of a model could be singled out and not recommended due to a flaw"

So Toyota only sold TWENTY V-6 6-speed Camrys in 2007-2008???