2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

"So Toyota only sold TWENTY V-6 6-speed Camrys in 2007-2008???"

The twenty were 5.7 liter engines in 07 Tundras. The problem in the Camry is a transmission issue primarily in the 07 6-speed auto.

Moreover that wasn't what he was saying. What he was saying was that, while the problem only affected 1/2 of one percent of ALL Camrys, the ones affected were only the ones with the 6 speed trans. So the real percentage may be more like 3%-4% of those models. That percentage may be high enough for Consumer Reports to flag the models with that transmission as unreliable compared to the average midsizer.

While that may be true, I wonder if there are other problems as well because I've read about owners who had to have the transmission reprogrammed because of an over-long delay in shifting.

"The 20 is Toyota's figure (for the 2007 Tundra)"

Gee, now how convincing is THAT?? TOYOTA's figure!! WOW!! I bet they really convinced the import fans with THAT ONE!!

I've always known that 99% of all the "it's better" hype came directly from import ads and nothing of a real-world nature. If 30 flawless domestics over a 30-year period doesn't convince import fans of the reliability of them, NOTHING ever will.

The odds of us getting 30 VERY GOOD domestic vehicles in that time and THREE ALL BAD imports is proof enough to last me a lifetime, even if the latest data showed otherwise (and it doesn't).

What is the statistical probability that 30 domestic vehicles from all three domestic makers would ALL be perfect while ALL THREE of our imports were lemons?? I'm eagerly waiting for some math wizard to run the odds on this, but something tells me it will never happen. It's like asking for frequency of repair records, It's not gonna happen!!

There have been some comments about the two year delay in Consumer Reports reliability data. An good alternate to look at is www.truedelta.com. The results come much quicker there.

Most of the time the results match what I see in Consumer Reports. But some things make a lot more sense over there. For instance I know 3 people with BMW 3-series cars. All of them have things breaking at least once a year. Truedelta shows BMW cars having more problems than other cars, but Consumer Reports shows the 3-series as better than average in reliability. It could be a matter of Consumer Reports filtering out problems they don't think matter? I don't know.

My next door neighbor had her BMW coffee cup holder break 4 times. Each time she paid $140 to get it fixed at the dealership. At Truedelta, that would be reported in the general category of successful repair. At Consumer Reports, I assume that would be filtered out because they say they only report serious problems.

15:52 what better comment than to buy a personal brand new full size truck and comment that you do like it. It's nice reading again about the V6 Camry, how thought provoking on a full size truck review.

What is the favorite feature you like about your new Tundra? I own a new full size Silverado... rather than peruse articles as none of these publications buy my vehicles, I get out of my chair and drive.

When you researched your brand new full size truck, what made you buy one rather than a small car or small truck? If you do not own one, I wonder what exactly would be the stimulus to buy the large models? Usually it's applications that prompts the decision.

I never talk about small cars and small trucks in the same context... there's zero utility mentioned.

The repair factor keeps popping up, but there's no point of addressing until an actual need is established. I like a 100,000 mile warranty and in fact have not had reason to use it. I have my truck (s) subjected to actual applications, towing, bed loads, people carrying not carrying light loads or empty. Do you tow or carry anything, or is it about a Camry?

"It could be a matter of Consumer Reports filtering out problems they don't think matter? I don't know.

My next door neighbor had her BMW coffee cup holder break 4 times. Each time she paid $140 to get it fixed at the dealership. At Truedelta, that would be reported in the general category of successful repair. At Consumer Reports, I assume that would be filtered out because they say they only report serious problems."

That's a great question. In the CR surveys I filled out, minor things like that usually end up in the general "body integrity" category. They don't simply filter them out. Also CR often releases data sooner than 2 years in their annual auto issue, but not in the buying guide.

As far as the differences that show up between two reliability reporting publications;

#1 They probably have slightly different methods for reporting and weighting the data.

#2 They may have different minimum sample sizes.

#3 They may have different methods for gathering data

#4 There are anomalous differences all the time, even within the same publication, which makes looking for multi-year trends a good idea.

#5 There may be differences in the regions that were reported upon (for example, one publication may be sampling European BMW 3 Series while the other is sampling the American version).

It's nice to have more than one place to look for info. JD Powers reports especially on initial quality. CR reports on long term reliability. Car and Driver reports primarily on performance aspects of vehicles. Other mags emphasize luxury. Some sites emphasize anecdotal stuff that can be used to help you find out where a vehicle's problem areas are, and how well the dealers and manufacturers respond.

And no one should overlook the all-important test drive. One guy on here has complained that no one seems to decide what truck they drive based upon capacities and capability. I think most serious buyers would indeed look at those considerations as primary ones, but this discussion has been sidetracked by the reliability debate. Anyway, cheers.

10:28 asks some very good questions. In choosing new full size trucks, my family's companies use the following criteria:

1) Does the truck have a good track record? ALL domestics do, Tundra DOES NOT.

2) Does the truck have a good warranty? ALL domestics do, Tundra DOES NOT.

3) Is the purchase price realistic? ALL domestics are, Tundra is NOT.

4) Will the dealer in your area stand behind the vehicle? In our area Ford DOES NOT, GM DOES, Dodge varies, and Toyota is the WORST. The warranty doesn't matter. Toyota (here) won't even repair their vehicles that ARE under warranty.

5) Can the truck be relied upon to perform daily without undue down time? ALL domestics can, Tundra CANNOT.

It should be easy to see why none of our fleet is anything other than domestic.

"It's like asking for frequency of repair records, It's not gonna happen!!"

Particularly if you don't read them when they're presented. AGAIN, and listen carefully, all the data you could ever want on compiled frequency of repair records is available from Consumer Reports (and truedelta, apparently). It's not as if this is an endorsement for the Tundra. Consumer Reports doesn't recommend the 07 and says that even after the problems with the engine were addressed, its still only rated average. It also shows that earlier Tundras had brake issues. So don't be afraid to check.

"What is the statistical probability that 30 domestic vehicles from all three domestic makers would ALL be perfect while ALL THREE of our imports were lemons?? I'm eagerly waiting for some math wizard to run the odds on this, but something tells me it will never happen."

The odds have to be astronomical, especially in light of the repair data over the implied time span. Certainly no one would fault you for choosing domestics if, in fact, what you said is the unvarnished truth. The trouble is... I don't know you. Likely no one else on this forum does either. So why should we take the word of a stranger whom we've never met over the large-scale data of respected consumer organizations especially if the premise is that ALL domestic vehicles=good; all foreign vehicles=bad?

I've had my own set of experiences with my own vehicles and those of friends and have seen problems with all -- foreign and domestic. I'm not going to try to get you to buy anything you don't believe in. You aren't going to convince a stranger to do that either. Most serious buyers probably DO look at vehicles from many perspectives before purchase to determine if it will suit their needs. They buy the vehicle that is capable, reliable, reputable, affordable, and available. So your argument runs far shy of compelling, no matter how often you repeat it.

10:28 The argument here pertains to ANY Toyota versus any domestic (Ford, Dodge, GM) vehicle. The fact is, no domestic is as good as any Toyota. Because, Toyota clearly puts much more time and effort into every step of the practice of making automobiles.

From the very beginning, in research and design, testing, to actual assembly, Toyota is far superior. They build the most reliable, highest quality cars and trucks in the world. Period.

They are number ONE in surveys concerning customer satisfaction... are the owners happy with their vehicles? Toyota ranks first. As it should be. It's about the fact that some people can't stand the fact the Japanese cars and trucks are of higher quality.

As if the Dodge Neon or Chevy Cobalt is as good a car as a Corolla or Civic. These are the same people who think that a Silverado is as good a truck as a Tundra. Not even close.

13:41 has the best response I have seen.

I also drive company vehicles since 1984, as well as my own personal vehicles. Not owning these vehicles, there's no bias. You can hate them if they stink and not feel like you have a dime in them.

I have found starting and stopping and driving long distances on a daily basis what holds up. My best have been Ford Crown Victorias with the small V8. Since I only have to pay for personal fuel and taxed on personal use to select any additional vehicle, it has to be very functional and have applications.

I test drove the new full sizes and bought the newest Silverados, mostly over the nice ride and handling, but Ford was fine too. I did not like the Tundra to even consider one, and I also did not like the Ram. I had one for an entire day, however real terrible ride.

Maybe you can read magazines for some guidance, but what is the new dealer giving you? If you don't drive these vehicles and then hate the ride, handling characteristics and capabilities, no magazine is going to overcome the letdown. Warranty in place is important as well... no warranty left at very early age gives you zero leg to stand on.

It amazes me the ones who do not own a full size truck that do not see the applications... it comes up as car comments or fuel economy. By not owning one it's perhaps understandable, but for us to pay more, added insurance when I already have a new company car there are specific needs not just an empty truck to cruise about.

I like the spreadsheet concept listing every single element you want and expect in a new full size truck... features, benefits, function, options, strength, bed loads, towing, ride, handling, best warranty, best ride, best handling, appearance (subjective), family input that ride in for hours, dealer proximity, dealer follow up for a few.

Add up on the features and capabilities... I actually left off pricing and fuel economy, which shows I do not possess the small car, vehicle thinking that seems to be so important to the non new full size truck owners on here. Test drive and then buy, and not waste your time.

"I actually left off pricing and fuel economy, which shows I do not possess the small car, vehicle thinking that seems to be so important to the non new full size truck owners on here."

I agree with most of what you said, but fuel economy and pricing ARE a part of most purchases be they a small car or a full-size truck... regardless of the mentality of those on this forum.

The 13:41 comment is the best you've read huh? DOMESTIC trucks have a good track record? Do yourself a favor and look up recalls for ANY of Ford, Chevy, or Dodge's full size trucks. How's that track record look now?

As far as purchase price, when it comes to full size trucks, you'll get what you pay for. If you want the better Toyota, you'll pay more for it. Same difference as between a Chevy Cavalier or a Toyota Corolla. (Please: don't suggest that the Cavalier is even close to as good) The vast difference in quality is reflected in the price.

I have a good friend that continues to buy full size domestic trucks; he refuses to buy Toyota's. His last full size Dodge Ram had SIX warranty recalls inside of the first six months. Seat belts and airbags, wheel bearings twice, I can't remember the others. He called that a piece of junk (it was) and bought an F-150, which, since day ONE has had a bad hesitation in the acceleration that Ford tells him is normal, as well as the fact that it overheats and is completely gutless when pulling his camper, which is well under the weight that that truck is SUPPOSED to be able to handle. At this rate, his transmission is going to be gone in under 50,000 miles, typical Ford at that, and the engine is going to be scrap.

Typical Ford yet again. He won't buy another GM, because once had an s-10 with that miserable 4.3 liter engine that simply consumed itself at around 45,000 miles if I remember correctly. It was under 50,000.

So I ask him finally, after he sees me driving (and towing) with Toyota's and having NO trouble..."why won't you buy a Toyota?" He basically says, "Look, I'll deny saying this if you repeat it, but I KNOW Toyota's are better, I just won't buy one."

Is this the mentality that you domestic guys ALL have? You know at heart Toyota's are better. All the proof in the world is out there. Do you all have this sort of denial going on? I can see if you need the equivalent of an F-350, because Toyota doesn't make one; then I guess you have to settle for a domestic. But if you're buying an F-150 instead of a Tundra, or ANY domestic car, for any reason, well... it doesn't add up. You're willingly buying a sub standard vehicle.

Ha! I certainly don't know any such thing, that "Toyotas are better." My own experience tells me what vehicles have been trouble-free, and nicer to drive and ride in.

My experience has been that for cars of the 1960s and 1970's, Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler made the most reliable cars; for the 1980's, Dodge trucks and Plymouths were still good; for the 1990's our GM's (Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Cadillac) did well; and starting in the late 1990's into the 2000's, Ford and Mercury has been the best.

As for Toyota, well... anemic, underpowered, rattling cars and trucks that ride like go-carts and haywagons are not for me.

The modern day Fords and Mercuries are the best riding and driving cars that I've driven of any decade, and that is born out by the high marks that Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers, as well as CNN gives to them.

Since it's 2009 and I find your comments not accurate in our household. Whats with the S-10 comment? Small truck yet again, and was that not replaced by the Colorado? How about some recent new comments on full sizes?

I did not like the Ram, but I would certainly place it ahead of my choice of the 2009 Tundra.

If it interests the fuel misers, some of the equivalent small Silverados have better MPG than the latest Tundra same small class.

I have experienced zero issues on my late model full sizes they are exceptional. Tundra cannot even compete in my tow category - very limited offering.

2001 F150 Lariat King Cab, 115,000 hard miles.

Problems since new: 2 coil packs (first one at 94,000 and the second at 112,000 total cost $120 for parts, I do my own work.) and a recall on the cruise control which was taken care of last week without questions or hassle. I had my truck back in an hour and a half, while the dealership shuttle brought me to and from the bar. Truck runs and drives like new.

2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 Limited, 102,000 not so hard miles.

Problems since new: BRAKES, BRAKES BRAKES! Ball joints, fuel pump, dash lights, exhaust hangers breaking constantly, coolant leaks, misses at idle and acceleration sometimes (he's still trying to figure out what's wrong), now getting worse gas mileage than my truck, heater core.

And he STILL says Toyota is the best and his truck is better than mine!

Must be the mentality of Toyota owners, even though their car/truck/van/SUV breaks down a lot, it's still a Toyota and therefore it's still the best!

"I have a good friend that continues to buy full size domestic trucks; he refuses to buy Toyota's."

Why should anyone wanting a full size truck even CONSIDER Toyota? They don't have any experience AT ALL in the full-size truck market. It sounds like your friend is very smart. My friends who have bought Tundras have all lived to regret it. It's no fun sitting in a Toyota dealership waiting on repairs, or bumming rides from your friends who wisely chose to buy a domestic truck.