2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

"the Tundra is (thankfully) biting the dust too."

Why "thankfully"?

"never having spent one penny on repairs on any of them, I doubt that I'll be gambling on a foreign company that has never built trucks before"

I doubt it too, considering that you find it good news that the Tundra is "biting the dust". Let's face it, this has nothing to do with reliability, capacity, relative inexperience at building trucks, or anything at all that has to do with the vehicle. It's doubtful that you would buy the Tundra even if it walked on water -- carrying 2 tons of bricks in its bed. You just said you were hoping they'd fail... without having owned one.

So if no one cares about sales numbers, then who cares what people prefer owing, driving, Consumer Reports etc.

I tend to agree with that direction myself, basing my buying decisions on performance, features, utility, towing, load carrying, ride, handling, warranty, and then did not buy a Tundra. I test drive one after another, especially with the full size truck...

I disagree Toyota has the best. Put loads towing and aforementioned points in your personal test and find out first hand. I could care less what others drive, but I expect them to perform under load not just an empty interstate commute.

If you think people buy new full size trucks with zero applications or just out of habit, it's not so in 2009. The problem on a new full size truck is mainly when it's your own wallet being hit for repairs, not anyone elses. I have a lot of fun because of mine and do not want my free time destroyed languishing in a new dealership with a really crap warranty. I credit most for being wise enough to test drive before they hand over money to buy in 2009.

"Additionally, the avg commute here is longer and further than the avg American's. So Toyota and Hondas get used on a much more abusive scale than elsewhere"

Flawed logic. Freeway mileage is far EASIER on vehicles than short hops that don't allow for the engine to warm up or the transmissions to get into top gear as much. Short, in-town commutes are the MOST abusive type of driving one can do. We put 325,000 miles of in-town, red-light to red-light rush hour driving on a Ford. THAT is abusive driving, not cruising along a freeway for 25 miles. It never required any repairs beyond a muffler, starter, catalytic converter and hoses and belts. Our pampered imports never lasted HALF that long.

"Sales don't mean anything. More cheeseburgers are sold than health foods; that doesn't mean they're better..."

Isn't it ironic that when a Japanese car sells well, it is "proof of how good they are", but if a domestic sells well, "Sales don't mean anything". Gee boys and girls, can we say "HYPOCRISY"??

"I have never had any problems with my domestics, but have seen friends of mine countless very serious problems with their imports, ESPECIALLY TOYOTA's. In science, which is my profession, a theory (e.g., the notion of Toyota's being reliable) is tested by experiment (e.g., real world ownership experience). Experimental results always take precedence over theory. If the experimental results agree with the theory, the theory is validated. If the experimental results disagree with the theory, the theory is considered to be proven wrong."

Yes... but science requires REPRESENTATIVE samples. Your (and your friends') experiences are too narrow to be considered anything more than indicators. That is why, in science, an "experiment" takes you from hypothesis to theory which is published for peer review. Peers then conduct the same experiment using a set of controls to make sure outside factors aren't skewing the result. They then release the outcomes of their experiments. These outcomes are then used to either further the theory or question its validity. In the realm of vehicles, the organization you reject (CU) is the one who is most careful and scientific with their method. So you say you're a scientist huh?

"I do not mean this as an offense to you, but the organization (s) you consider to be "expert," I consider to be a joke."

And I don't mean this to be offensive to you, but you're rejecting the only and best "science" available out of hand.

"Those same "experts" (Consumer Reports) who had to do an about face with their tails between their legs and renege on their ratings of the Camry and Tundra, and admit that their reliabilities are actually much worse than average as opposed to their pompous assumptions that they would be better than average. Never mind the fact that all the while, none of their ratings were ever corresponding to the actual real world experience of people outside of their brain washed subscribers, who seem to think Consumer Reports is God's visible organization on Earth and adjust their evaluations to agree with (and preach) whatever Consumer Reports has trained them to believe."

CR surveys only ask for what went wrong with your vehicle, vehicle type, and mileage. They also ask if you're satisfied but that is presented separately. Obviously you've never filled out one of their surveys. Nor have you read the FAQ on their method. But you are "preaching" your opinion (in essence a conspiracy theory) that members are adjusting their evaluations en-masse... and that not born of information. I believe that there are weaknesses in the way CR data is compiled, but no discussion here would be an informed one because it would be assumed that I'm "The Brainwashed One".

Yes CR did an about face with the new (07) Camry and Tundra because they thought they would follow the same trajectory as past models. They didn't and caught CR by surprise. Consequently CR changed their method of reporting new models based on the reliability of the last one.

"Based on my real world observations, and that of countless other people on this thread, your "experts," and their theory that Toyota's are reliable, are wrong."

"Countless" indeed. You don't know how many are on this thread (I don't either). For all you know, this subject is being batted around by 6 people. This site isn't a scientific, controlled survey. It isn't designed to be. Toyotas may be fantastic. Toyotas may be crap. This site won't further either hypothesis. You don't even know for a fact that those who claim an experience with a vehicle even own one. In fact there are a couple of posts that go a long way toward proving the opposite on a few threads.

So it's fine to dislike Toyotas....that's your right. But it isn't science.

"Isn't it ironic that when a Japanese car sells well, it is "proof of how good they are", but if a domestic sells well, "Sales don't mean anything". Gee boys and girls, can we say "HYPOCRISY"??"

Only if the same person believes both. Then there would be a double standard.

Regardless of your position here on this thread, you should celebrate crossing the 800 comments line. Pop a top, boys!

Actually would be curious how well a newer Tundra would hold up with 4 passengers and towing a large boat in very hot bumper to bumper traffic 2 hours each way with a limited warranty. Every single weekend year in year out.

It would certainly have time to thoroughly test its drivetrain, braking, cooling, but it seems like the word "commute" on here means driving daily to work empty, again the car comparisons. It seems like its wishful thinking comments on here from those not even a likely consumer for any new late model full size truck. The comments have zero utility ever mentioned, and anyone I know owning them certainly finds that having utmost importance to own/ buy.

"I have never had any problems with my domestics, but have seen friends of mine countless very serious problems with their imports, ESPECIALLY TOYOTA's. In science, which is my profession, a theory (e.g., the notion of Toyota's being reliable) is tested by experiment (e.g., real world ownership experience). Experimental results always take precedence over theory. If the experimental results agree with the theory, the theory is validated. If the experimental results disagree with the theory, the theory is considered to be proven wrong.

Based on my real world observations, and that of countless other people on this thread, your "experts," and their theory that Toyota's are reliable, are wrong"

Very well said, and 100% accurate. Remember, however, that we live in a country that is rife with legends (Bigfoot, UFO's, Japanese cars being better) that are not amenable to logic or rational thinking. When the scientific method can't validate these myths, the "true believers" start chanting "Consumer Reports... High sales... My uncle Ichabod owns a 7,000,000 mile Tacoma..." and totally IGNORE any REAL evidence. If a domestic has good sales, it is written off with the comment "sales don't mean anything". If a Japanese car sells well, it is "proof they are superior". You can't win with non-scientifically minded people. The playing rules change with each game.

And to another commenter, NO, I WOULDN'T buy a Tundra even if it could walk on water, because with the U.S. auto industry in desperate need of help, NO WAY am I sending my American-earned money to a foreign industry (even if the product WAS better, which it definitely is NOT).

Finally, with the world's best selling truck for the THIRD DECADE in a row, Ford doesn't take a backseat to ANYONE. And it's not just the trucks: I'll leave you with this direct quote from USA Today about their test of the new Fusion Hybrid:

"OK, let's just get it out there: The 2010 Ford Hybrid is the best gasoline-electric hybrid yet. What makes it best is a top-drawer blend of an already very good midsize sedan with the industry's smoothest, best-integrated gas-electric power system. It's so well done that you have to look to the $107,000 Lexus LS600h hybrid to come close."

Better than a $107,000 Lexus? Not bad Ford!!

I would buy a Tundra if it were superior and found it lacking in many areas.

I have recommended from the onset to test everything if you are buying a full size truck. Maybe a new car shopper run in buy an new import without looking at any other comparable models. They will certainly get you around, but full size trucks are designed to be utilized; at least that's why I buy them. If it has zero applications or no purpose why buy the larger models... if you have very light applications, no towing, maybe a commuter vehicle that you throw a bike, a shrub, a couple bags of mulch then there's no need to ever consider applications, function and practical usage.

Maybe I am one of the very few that own a new full size on this review. It would be interesting on each comment if it indicating a car owner, a small truck owner making individual comments on a full size review to have a better grasp of personal input, This specific comment however is from an actual full size truck owner that tested them and bought another new GM Silverado.

"And to another commenter, NO, I WOULDN'T buy a Tundra even if it could walk on water, because with the U.S. auto industry in desperate need of help, NO WAY am I sending my American-earned money to a foreign industry (even if the product WAS better, which it definitely is NOT)."

Amen brother!!

Watch how everybody attacks this comment and we will be able to plainly see why the US economy is in so much trouble. They can drive their Tundra's to the poor house (assuming they can even make it there), which is where we are all going to be because of this utterly stupid "global economy" and "patriotism is for dumb rednecks" mentality going around today.

I know my parents and grandparents (WWII generation) did not think that way. They loved our country and did not take a single thing they had for granted, nor assume it would magically continue without them contributing to it, instead of constantly taking away from it - sending money to Japan and putting another nail in the coffin of US industry every time you buy a Toyota.

"This specific comment however is from an actual full size truck owner that tested them and bought another new GM Silverado"

My wife's family still owns the 1983 Silverado they bought new in '83. They disagree that Japanese trucks are better too.

Toyota makes better vehicles than Ford, Chevy or Dodge. No amount of talk will change that.

Citing specific negative comments about Toyota and citing a few positive ones about some domestic doesn't change it either.

All automakers have mechanical issues. Toyota has less of them, by far, than any of the domestics, and that is documented.

Also, saying that you don't believe the credibility of the source of that information doesn't change it either. In the auto industry, there are publications that are at the forefront and ARE the experts... Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. ALL of them rate Japanese vehicles as still the most reliable. If you don't believe it, it still doesn't change that fact. Not to mention the real world experience that backs it up.

As always, this comment will be followed by some other comment (impossible to prove) that says somebody had a faulty Toyota and a domestic that lasted forever. SO what. Getting back to the facts, Toyota's, along with Honda's, have been rated as the most reliable, highest quality vehicles on the road, as well as being rated as the vehicles most likely to get to and over 200,000 miles. Also a fact, from the experts.

Those of us NOT blinded by Big 3 advertising or in denial of the truth already know that. You might well HAVE had a Toyota die early and ALSO had a Ford that lasted to 200,000 miles. If so, that is a rare exception to the norm. Toyota still makes better vehicles, and, odds are good that if you buy one, it'll get a lot more miles than any domestic. That's just the way it is, because they're designed and built better.

So, keep talking about all of these 'bad' Toyota's. It's not going to change the fact that I, as well as practically every other Toyota owner I ever knew, were thrilled after making the switch from a crappy domestic. The Big 3 simply cannot compare, and at this point, are lucky to even be in business.

I'm actually glad to see that Ford at least is making some strides in a positive direction and building better cars. Maybe if they keep it up, they'll do what Toyota has been doing for decades: making automobiles that last and gaining a reputation for that. Until then, I'll obviously buy what I know is best; Toyota and Honda.

"Remember, however, that we live in a country that is rife with legends (Bigfoot, UFO's, Japanese cars being better) that are not amenable to logic or rational thinking. When the scientific method can't validate these myths, the "true believers" start chanting "Consumer Reports... High sales... My uncle Ichabod owns a 7,000,000 mile Tacoma...""

So..."Consumer Reports" and high sales serve as a response to Bigfoot and UFOs huh? :)

Actually I've spent a fair amount of "ink" pointing out that CR and other organizations have shown that the reliability of some models and years of American trucks are on a par with or better than any of their Japanese counterparts as far as reliability goes.

Some might be chanting, but I'm just sitting here typing quietly pondering patriotic purchasing vs. purchasing strictly on the merits of the product. I've done my fair share of both. I've owned both Japanese and American cars. I've owned many American made, German made, Japanese made, and Chinese made products. I prefer to buy American and often will pay more to do it -- as long as the USA made product is better. But I won't tell you what to do.

Maybe I'm just not enough of a "true believer" to shout along with either of the types of blind followers represented here on this thread.

"The playing rules change with each game."

Or perhaps with each person. You aren't only talking to one other person on this forum. To one, high Japanese sales is proof of their superiority. To another, high domestic sales is meaningless. It's only a double standard if the same person believes both.

The best selling beer in the world is Bud light. Never mind that it's pretty much watered-down tasteless swill. I can almost bet it's the same beer the guys making claims that their Fords and Chevys are better than Toyotas drink. This thread is hilarious. Sure... Fords are wayyyy better than Toyotas.

Guess what? The world knows the truth, knows what a better product is when they see it, and hence the reason Toyota is now the no.1 car maker with a reputation based on reliability and not planned obsolescence.

"Watch how everybody attacks this comment and we will be able to plainly see why the US economy is in so much trouble. They can drive their Tundra's to the poor house (assuming they can even make it there), which is where we are all going to be because of this utterly stupid "global economy" and "patriotism is for dumb rednecks" mentality going around today.

I know my parents and grandparents (WWII generation) did not think that way. They loved our country and did not take a single thing they had for granted, nor assume it would magically continue without them contributing to it, instead of constantly taking away from it - sending money to Japan and putting another nail in the coffin of US industry every time you buy a Toyota"

THANK GOD there is at least ONE other patriotic American out there!!! THANK YOU!!! I've been absolutely APPALLED at the "I don't care if the country goes bankrupt, I'm buying from FOREIGN COMPANIES" response from so many import owners. Even if the quality was better (it ISN'T) I'd still prefer to help my own fellow citizens by supporting American industry. We've started a "Buy American" campaign and are talking to import owners about trading up to a domestic. We've had quite a bit of success, especially with people trading Camrys for Fusions.

Ford's high ratings are hard to dismiss, even for die-hard anti-American industry folks.

I agree that if the best-selling beer in the world is swill, it proves that the best-selling brand isn't always the best. And how does that help your argument that Toyota must better because it sells more vehicles?

Personally, I prefer a nice, cold Dos Equiis or Negra Modelo for beer, or a rich merlot. I still say my Fords and Dodges have been better than any foreign car I've ever encountered. Sorry, your attempt at associating Fords with beer-swilling rednecks failed.