2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

In the 70-80's I owned new what I consider the real Japan imports, however today you rarely see them. I liked the 70's not 80's Celica GT's and also the Datsun 240Z and later up to the 280ZX, but where are they today? Perhaps victims of chronic rusting, heavy oil consumption or depreciating and mechanical issues to the point of not having enough value.

I agree the smog/pollution devices that became mandatory created issues in the mid 70's domestics... prior to 72 it was extremely easy to work and maintain your own vehicles. My dad had cars I would love to have today and they were very reliable. He stepped up not sold out of disappointment. A lot of people were foolhardy in hindsight, trading in some really great classic cars during the long mid 70's gas lines and odd and even days when you could only buy gas. Quite a few of my friends have regretted going for the gas savers, but who wanted a Hemi Cuda with no gas for it?

I see the same issue a year back people buying small again over gas. Panic buying and they could have a much more pleasurable driving vehicle with less issues down the road.

The term jalopy I heard years ago on race tracks, not necessarily all negative, and can be a street rod today. I would use the term "clunker" or rust bucket as many of my early imports were. If you haven't been in a late model model street rod, you may be surprised how nice they are. Nice drivetrains, automatic, all power amenities, retro ice cold air conditioning etc. How much money would you dump into a well worn out 79 Corolla and do a complete restoration? I will watch Barrett Jackson and see if any roll through soon to confirm.

"But cars and trucks are expensive, and if you have distinct memories of how bad American cars were in the 70's and 80's (don't deny it - they were AWFUL back then) then would you be willing to make a possible $20,000 mistake in today's economy? As you can see, GM, Ford, and Chrysler made some bad mistakes that haunt them to this very day."

I will certainly deny that American cars of the 70's and 80's were "AWFUL". In fact, it was not until 2003 that I finally started seeing new cars that were AS GOOD as the Chargers we had. Examples I have owned?

1971 Dodge Charger (owned 1971-1975) -- dependable, stylish, comfortable

1971 Plymouth Barracuda (owned 1987-present) -- fast, stylish, totally dependable

1973 Dodge Charger (owned 1987-present) -- comfortable, totally dependable, good mileage

1974 Dodge Monaco (owned 1982-1989) -- comfortable, a work-horse, ran and drove great.

1975 Dodge Charger (owned 1975-present) -- totally dependable, very comfortable

1975 Chevy Vega (owned 1984-1986) -- junk

1976 Plymouth Volare (owned 1984-1992) -- totally dependable, ran great, good mileage.

1977 Dodge Tradesman (owned 1986-1998) -- drove great, work-horse

1977 Chevy Vega (owned 1982) --junk

1979 Plymouth Volare (owned 1987-1995) -- totally dependable, ran great

1980 Plymouth Volare (owned 1988-1990) -- totally dependable, ran great

1983 Chevy Cavalier (owned 1988-1995) -- dependable, good mileage but a puddle jumper

1984 Plymouth Reliant (owned 1995-2001) -- totally dependable, good mileage, good ride

1985 Dodge Ram (owned 1996-2007) -- very rugged and durable (260,000 miles speaks for itself)

1989 Chevy 20 Van (owned 1998-2006) -- totally dependable, very comfortable, drove and ran great

1989 Pontiac 6000LE (owned 1998-2005) -- ran great, dependable, good mileage, but a beater.

As you can see, I'm not trying to paint a perfect picture. Our Dodges and Plymouths of the '70s and '80 were great, but the economy GMs were junky to borderline junky, albeit dependable.

But things change -- Chrysler went from building great cars in the '70s to good economy cars in the '80s, to boring with poor quality in the '90s to '00s. However, they are finally building cars that I would give a chance to again --- the Caliber, Charger, 300, Challenger, Avenger. Ford went the other way --- I had a low opinion of them in the '70s and '80s, but by the late '90s and early '00s we were very happy to buy Fords (a '97 and '02).

I would not be afraid to spend $20,000 on a new Dodge or Ford. In fact, we just did spend that on a year-old Cadillac DTS.

-- "No more GM". That says enough for me. Apparently, this person, like many hundreds of thousands of others, has had enough with crappy GM products (your opinion). He has switched to Toyota... --

Yes, I see some people switching to Toyota as well. People switch car brands all the time.

But, in the case of people switching to Toyota, it is my observation that often times these people owned a domestic and had many trouble free years of driving it, before the most minor and routine of problems cropped up at 150K+ miles or so, whereafter buying into all of the sensational hype associated with Toyota, they resolutely purchased one thinking that Toyota's were the Ark of the Covenant, all their car troubles would be over for the rest of their lives by virtue of them buying one, a rainbow would appear in the sky every time they went to drive the car, etc. But to their amazement, their brand new Toyota's which they whole heartedly believed were going to be beyond reproach, do not have minor problems, but completely self destructed in stupendous fashion within just a few years of purchase.

I am talking about catastrophic problems such as these:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Taken aback by the unimaginable severity of problems with their Toyota's, these people finally realized that all of their perceptions about Toyota had been based upon an erroneous myth. Many of these people subsequently switched to/back-to GM (and in some cases Ford), have no more car problems at all and have not looked back.

While what you say might have been true in the past, I actually see the exact opposite occurring now. I see a lot more people switching to GM than I do Toyota, and those that I do see switching to Toyota, soon end up dropping them (Toyota) because of all the problems.

"I actually see the exact opposite occurring now. I see a lot more people switching to GM than I do Toyota, and those that I do see switching to Toyota, soon end up dropping them (Toyota) because of all the problems."

Then I'm not sure where you live because out here in Cali, I've yet to meet a single person who has switched to GM from Toyota, and especially not when GM has several toes in bankruptcy.

This thread is never going to end. You pro-domestic people need to give it up. People who drive Toyotas have zero reasons to switch when what they drive is typically better and more reliable. And for the pro-Toyota crowd, it wouldn't matter if a pro-domestic guy has had 5 Ford Tauruses in a row blow their head gaskets. They'll swear by their clunkers until none of them are in business anymore.

"But things change -- Chrysler went from building great cars in the '70s to good economy cars in the '80s, to boring with poor quality in the '90s to '00s. However, they are finally building cars that I would give a chance to again --- the Caliber, Charger, 300, Challenger, Avenger. Ford went the other way --- I had a low opinion of them in the '70s and '80s, but by the late '90s and early '00s we were very happy to buy Fords (a '97 and '02)."

I tend to agree with your comment, except that my 1990 Dodge Omni was one of the most reliable vehicles we ever owned. It made 240,000+ miles with two timing belts, two brake jobs and one heater hose and NOTHING else beyond normal maintenance. I test drove several Calibers, but was not sure about the reliability of the CVT belts. My nephew has a new Charger (240hp V-6) and it is a very nice car, though a far cry from the original Chargers in sportiness.

Ford has been building some of the best cars on the planet. We own a Fusion and a Mustang. Both are flawless. We also own 2 GM vehicles and they are also both flawless. I can't conceive of calling ANY new domestic vehicle "crap". The name is hardly appropriate.

"What year Tundras, Silverados did you own? There's 3 involved. How was the towing, load carrying and other capabilities of your Tundra vs. Silverado? And warranty."

I bought a 2000 Tundra SR5 with 38000 miles on it. It was a good *light duty* truck. I towed my 31' Airstream with it. Loaded it weighed close to 7000 lbs. I would suggest that others who do this put LT tires and overload leaf springs, because this is very close to the maximum weight limit for these early Tundras.

I also built a house and used this truck to haul building materials. I've put a ton+ in the back. I was careful because this was well over its payload capacity, and the axle was bouncing off the snubbers when I went over bumps. It did fine, though. It still was straight and true after my project.

At the time this truck was built it was a little lighter duty than 1/2 ton Silverados and F150s. But it served my needs well. I sold it last year.

Warranty-wise it was already out of the bumper-to-bumper when I bought it but I think that there was still a powertrain warranty until 60,000 (I could be wrong about that... set me straight -- I can't remember for sure). I never used the warranty.

At that time I knew plenty of guys who owned and were happy with their domestic trucks. But if you need a lighter-duty truck a first generation Tundra may work out for you.

If you need something heavier, I would suggest a domestic. The new Tundras aren't proven and have had a few disturbing "teething problems". My personal taste runs toward the F150, but the Silverado has better capacities and has also proven reliable. If you want a smoother ride, the Dodge Ram isn't as tough, but has coils in back make for a good riding and handling vehicle.

Everyone's needs and tastes vary. Plus some people feel that there is a strong economic and/or patriotic reason to purchase domestically. So, for them, there isn't any reason to even consider any non-domestic --- regardless of capability. Thankfully there are some very fine choices among the domestics that would likely serve their needs well.

Maybe you should move from California to the Northeast as I see the complete opposite. Few Tundras.

If you like a Tacoma and have had some other Toyotas since, fine... but that does not make one an absolute authority on late model domestic full size pickups in the 16 years since you owned one.

I have never had a head gasket issue on my new GM Silverados... I drive a lot and love mine. I actually carry loads and tow. What do you carry, what do you pull and how is the warranty on your new truck? (whatever size it may be)

This is a full size truck review. I do not own Taurus or Aveos... I like GM V8 engines and have had zero drivetrain issues.

It gets funnier and funnier. People are switching from Toyota to GM. Yeah, right. Well, I can tell you what's happening in my little town... the Ford dealership looks like a graveyard. And that's sad, because they're the best of the domestics right now, which still isn't very good.

The Dodge dealership closed completely and is now a Honda dealership. Business is good now that people can buy Honda's there instead of crappy Dodges.

Dodge is the absolute worst of the worst. The lowest reliability ratings on the market. Their whole lineup is a joke. Especially the cars.

The second largest Dodge dealership near me also closed it's doors. Meanwhile, a Hyundai dealership opened up directly across the highway and is doing great. I should know; I bought an Accent there last year. They had 6 of them when I shopped, and 2 days later when I had made my decision, there was ONE left, and I bought it.

Meanwhile, the GM dealership also looks like a graveyard and appears, to me, to be on their way out. They've had the same 8 trucks parked near the street for about a year. Nothing moves. Meanwhile, the Toyota dealership bought the entire shopping plaza next to them and has overflowed into two full blocks.

I don't know where all these people are that are giving up reliable Toyota's for junk GM's, but it surely isn't anywhere close to where I live.

"Taken aback by the unimaginable severity of problems with their Toyota's, these people finally realized that all of their perceptions about Toyota had been based upon an erroneous myth."

Here we go again with the perpetual post linking to the same site "proving" how bad Toyotas are, despite the fact that every single major publication and survey shows them above and beyond the ratings of all three US producers.

Secondly, if people want "proof" in regards to the quality of US produced vehicles, all they have to do is read this site because virtually every other review for Fords, GM, and Chryslers are negative and rife with ridiculous mechanical issues.

In regard to the following comment:

"This thread is never going to end. You pro-domestic people need to give it up. People who drive Toyotas have zero reasons to switch when what they drive is typically better and more reliable. And for the pro-Toyota crowd, it wouldn't matter if a pro-domestic guy has had 5 Ford Tauruses in a row blow their head gaskets. They'll swear by their clunkers until none of them are in business anymore."

The comment is correct about one thing - This thread won't end (unless Steven puts an end to it). But in my opinion it goes on and on because there are so many people who think that their opinion is the only one that's correct and it doesn't matter what anybody else's experience is. To them there is just black or white, no gray. It's funny that people can't just come to the conclusion that there are good (and some not so good) domestics and good (and and some not so good) imports.

There are you know.

It really does depend on what your needs and preferences are. I don't think anyone is 100% right or 100% wrong.

The sad part about many of the anti-American comments on this site is that so many people are unaware of the dire consequences of destroying an industry that employs roughly 1 out of every 14 people in this country either directly or indirectly. It is also irritating to see comment after comment that is purely opinion with no sources cited. There are so many reputable sources available that clearly refute the "everything American is crap" argument.

For years now the Ford Ranger has had a reliability rating EXACTLY the SAME as the Toyota Tacoma. This is a fact. It is not a matter of opinion. The same is true of almost ALL of Ford's line of vehicles. USA today just ran a review of the new Ford Focus coupe. It said "Ford got it ALL right". This is from a reviewer that always tells it like it is and has had no qualms about attacking our automotive "sacred cows" such as Mercedes. The F-150 STILL outsells every other truck in the world. It is also "truck of the Year" (again).

GM is currently building some of the world's best cars and trucks. The Corvette outperforms cars costing twice as much, and does it with comfort and style. The Cadillac CTS-V is the fastest sedan on the planet and puts BMW and Mercedes to shame. The Silverado is one of the best trucks ever made. The ride, interior comfort level and handling are extremely good compared to the Tundra.

It is easy to say "Fords are crap" or "GM builds crap". It requires no effort, no research, and no hint of an open mind. It is based solely on opinion, and that often based on a bad experience with ONE vehicle out of millions. To make an informed judgment of vehicles, one needs to own more than one Ford with 200,000 miles on it, or one Toyota. Out of over 80 vehicles owned by both me and my siblings and other family members over the years, I have never seen ANY of the issues constantly attributed to domestics. No transmissions replaced, no blown head gaskets, no engine failures. We've owned imports, including Toyota. They were not any better than any of the domestics.

Would I buy another Toyota? Absolutely not. I care too much about my country and our dire economic situation to send money to foreign industries. I'd have no qualms about buying a USED import from a DOMESTIC dealer, because that DOES benefit our economy. The problem with that is that used imports are very poor values compared to used domestics. Why buy a Camry that is rated as "average" when I can buy a Fusion that is rated "much better than average" for 7 grand less? That makes little sense financially.

As long as I make my money in America, I feel obligated to support our industry. Yes, that is a matter of opinion and choice. So is sending our money out of the country and contributing to our growing unemployment and the suffering of our fellow citizens.

"10th Mar 2009, 21:24

Dodge is the absolute worst of the worst. The lowest reliability ratings on the market. Their whole lineup is a joke. Especially the cars."

I actually am seeing a lot of Avengers, Calibers, and Chargers on the roads. The former two seem to fill a niche for a lot of people.

As for "reliability ratings" well, you have to take those with a grain of salt. My family has owned quite a few used cars with only "2 out of 5 stars" that have gone over 200,000 miles with minor to no issues. Maybe we just take better care of our vehicles, and avoid having break-downs, who knows? My personal experience trumps some rating system, and I'll buy what suits me.

Has the Toyota Tundra sold a lot more last year and displaced all other new full size truck sales? With all the fanfare on this thread they should be standing in line waiting.

The thing that gets me is someone that owns a Tacoma comparing it to Tundra and other larger trucks and not even a late model illustration. I can say my dad has great cars, but he hardly drives them and changes the fluids every 4 months with low retired mileage. I drive, tow heavily and rack up the mileage and have personal first hand ownership and testing others (full sizes) I was unimpressed with Tundra... cover the nameplate up I was still unimpressed.

The sales history of this model compared to full size pickups illustrate this... please no Yaris, Prius, Aveo etc. What is the point... It's not the category exact to the review and at least be within the same decade.

10:48 Your opinions are yours, but your facts are wrong. Your using a technique of propaganda to try and sell Fords by singling out a SINGLE Ford that has a decent reliability rating. Learned how to dodge those attempts in 6th grade.

Ford does NOT have most of their vehicles rated anywhere close the the marks in quality and reliability that Toyota gets. They are rated far UNDER Toyota, with the exception of one or two models, which you domestic fans love to keep mentioning. A couple of decent models will not save them, and they are not rated as, nor are they a match for Toyota or their quality. The rest of your OPINIONS, you're welcome to mention all you like.

"Here we go again with the perpetual post linking to the same site "proving" how bad Toyotas are, despite the fact that every single major publication and survey shows them above and beyond the ratings of all three US producers."

I assume you are talking about this site:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Maybe it keeps getting posted because somebody has yet to explain why Toyota's are blowing engines in epidemic numbers at less than 50,000 miles. Maybe it is because people keep proclaiming that Toyota's are so impeccable, and anybody else who thinks otherwise is wrong, when in fact it cannot be denied that Toyota's are having serious problems and people do not want to admit it. That includes the auto publications you cite.

Do you believe Fox News or CNN? Do you agree with the New York Times or the Washington Times? Do you agree with National Review or Time Magazine. All of these are major news sources, but I take it you and most people would disagree with one or the other of the pairs of sources I listed. Disagree with one of each or do not agree with one of them. There goes your argument that just because something appears in the news it has to be correct.

If you do not like the Consumer Affairs site constantly being listed, then explain why Toyota is having all those engine failures and we can put the issue to bed. Don't tell me those types of issues are routine or due to lack of maintenance either, because if that were the case, all manufacturers would be having those problems. They are not. Only Toyota, the company that could very legitimately be considered the worst car company on the road presently.