2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

To qualify for the Million Mile Club a vehicle must still have its original engine and transmission. There are actually GM trucks that have gone 2,000,000 miles. I am sure that most import owners are used to the idea of frequent engine replacements and transmission failures, and our Honda was a good example: 1 engine in less than 100,000 miles.

Many Hondas and Toyotas require transmissions every 40,000-60,000 miles. I suppose, for that reason, it is hard to conceive of a vehicle NOT requiring engines and transmissions.

None of our Ford, Chevy or Dodge trucks has EVER required a major engine or transmission repair, let alone replacement. Domestic trucks are over-engineered and with proper maintenance easily make 300,000 miles. Our companies F-150's, Chevys and Dodge Rams routinely make over a quarter of a million miles with NO repairs. The Rangers (used for light duty) often make 300,000 miles with nothing beyond routine maintenance.

"So the old-fashioned assumption that modern domestics are super-simple is an outright myth, and in fact the opposite is true."

Agreed. I was saying that this has been true IN THE PAST. Today the only factors that help are better reliability (of overall vehicles), an abundance of parts and a large base of semi-knowledgeable shade-tree mechanics.

Simplicity is only a benefit if you purchase an older vehicle.

"To say domestic trucks do not last (e.g., obtain 500K+ miles) is absolutely preposterous. Someone earlier speculated that all high mileage domestics must have had their engines and transmissions replaced."

Some do. Who speculated that all high mileage domestics had their engines and transmissions replaced? If you're referring to my comment that high mileage vehicles have often had major repairs or replacements... well... I wasn't talking about domestics specifically (and I didn't use the word "all"). Otherwise I stand behind what I said.

What's "preposterous" is this thread. People will be unlikely to read this and let it make their car buying choice for them (or have it sway them about the import vs domestic argument). They will likely let their experiences and those of friends and relatives make that determination. Otherwise, they'll probably consult publications that they trust to help narrow down the choices.

So this fits the classic definition of a tempest in a teapot. More than likely most readers are laughing and shaking their heads. I know I am. Cheers!

"Thanks. I stand corrected. Why do you feel that uni-body is unreliable?"

Because it's not as durable as body-on-frame. I'm not trying to cause a debate but it is. That's part of the reason why Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car are so durable. I may only be 19, but I have done at least 3 years worth of research on these cars, then finally made my decision and purchased one. I have put 10,000 trouble-free miles on it and expect many, many, more. It's a 98 Crown Vic with 95,680 miles.

16:20 Well, you can keep reading and believing USA Today if you like. I'd rather value the opinions of people who actually matter in the automotive industry, like Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, and Motortrend, for example, who rate Ford as lukewarm at best (which IS generous considering their track record for making junk cars), and rate GM as the complete junk that it is; near the bottom. I'll stick with the best vehicles in the world, Toyota and Honda, and continue to avoid what has proven to me and millions of others to be junk - Ford, GM, and Dodge.

Toyota does a far better job of RESEARCH and design, something Ford and GM know very little about these days. Just draw it up, slap it together, and sell it. This is why Toyota's get far better real world gas mileage than a Ford or GM with the same displacement. This is why Toyota's always run smoother and the engines don't sound like they're full of nickels under acceleration, like the brand new F-150 does every time. This is what has made Toyota the best automaker in the world, while GM, Ford, and Dodge are busy begging for their mere existence.

Domestic fans, go ahead and keep posting all the dirt you can find on Toyota. I'm sure I could find negative press about Mother Theresa if I looked hard enough. Go ahead and continue to ignore the fact that the Big 3 still make junk and still have more problems per 100 vehicles than Toyota (far more). Somebody has to buy that garbage; it helps keep the price of Toyota's down a little when somebody buys the other crap.

"To qualify for the Million Mile Club a vehicle must still have its original engine and transmission."

Was that always true? Can you give me a link? I've been looking for THE Million Mile Club and can't find one that isn't related either to semi-trucks or individual brands like Volvo.

As far as the imports needing engines or transmissions early, I can only say that CR doesn't show that nor did I experience it with any of the imports (or domestics) that I've owned (the ones that hadn't been abused by a prior owner. We had one import and one domestic that had been beat and needed major repairs).

But when you're talking about vehicles that go half a million or a million miles... no one does reliability research on them. I've seen pretty impressive domestics too. I don't mean to put them down at all.

I wrote the following - "No they do not - they may be rear wheel drive, but they are not body on frame. Virtually everything is uni-body nowadays."

Nowhere in this statement did I ever say the unibody vehicles were unreliable. Please don't confuse me with someone else.

7:54... it would be nice instead of saying "Toyota, Ford, GM, Dodge over and over to indicate the specific model instead that you have.

The 2009 Tundra made by Toyota is not the fuel leader... it's 13-17 MPG V8 4WD to Fords F 15-20 MPG and GM Silverado has a 21-22 MPG comparable engines. If you wanted a 2WD Tundra is still last... why anyone would want a 2WD V6 when mileage is not significantly different anyway?

I maintain anyone spending for a new full size truck; it's not the same economy only mode as someone driving in small cars and trucks, likely empty. I am not getting an adrenaline rush on saving 2 MPG either way when the trucks cost 40K plus with decent options.

In addition, what advanced body design are you referring as far as any specific 2009 Toyota model? I do not see any advanced styling exercises. Is it Prius, Corolla, Camry the truck designs? Not seeing it.

The warranty on Toyota and I can say the manufacturer as the import fan does truly does not reflect 2009 other models with 100,000 mile warranties. If it's so incredible, why not offer the warranty that the mfr. would never need to act upon based on your illustrations?

I think there are a lot of former import owners on here that have proof and first hand knowledge after buying initially and learning that way. I want a excellent warranty in 2009 standard... and expect great service and not getting excuses. I would expect people to be selling all their domestic full sizes lining for new Tundras or are they?

It would be nice to be model specific on a full size review. If it's not full size, say it's a 4 cylinder Tacoma direct experience for example, different class vehicle.

10:52 Domestics are OVER-engineered?? By 1955 standards I'm assuming? The engines in all and any brand new domestic vehicle have nowhere near the refinement of a Honda or a Toyota engine from 1988. It truly is funny that someone would think that GM does, or has ever, built an engine that is even in the same class as an engine in a Civic or Toyota's near perfect 22re engine. Those were the definition of reliability. GM, Ford, and Dodge have done nothing to compare to this kind of quality.

But please, domestic fans, keep buying them... it stimulates the economy when you guys buy them and then feed the auto parts stores money when they start to fall apart at 70,000 miles or less.

This site HAS influenced people's decisions on car purchases. I first found this site the day I was about to go out and take delivery of a Hyundai Tiburon. I ran across this site that day (back in 2006) and saw numerous comments from people who had bought Tiburons and had had trouble getting Hyundai to honor the warranty. I instantly scrapped my plans to buy a Tiburon and a year later bought a Ford Mustang instead.

I put great stock in the more sane and sensible comments I see, especially those who appear knowledgeable about cars and trucks and who have driven a variety of vehicles. I had a friend who was on the brink of buying a Camry or Accord and I showed him the comments on this site. I also showed him that the Ford Fusion is rated higher in predicted reliability. This weekend he made his decision. He took delivery of a new white Fusion SEL V-6. He has a much better car and saved nearly $5000 over the Accord (the Camry price was nearly the same). He is glad I showed him the comments (and related references) that helped him get a better car.

Looking at the comments on just this thread alone, my friend commented, "The domestic owners comments seem far more fact-based". I told him I agreed, and that after reading the comments on just this thread my choice in a full-sized truck could be nothing but a Silverado or F-150. Toyota is by no means junk, but to see every comment from import owners labeling ALL domestic vehicles as "junk" or "crap" goes a long way toward convincing a truly open minded individual to buy domestic.

"It truly is funny that someone would think that GM does, or has ever, built an engine that is even in the same class as an engine in a Civic or Toyota's near perfect 22re engine. Those were the definition of reliability. GM, Ford, and Dodge have done nothing to compare to this kind of quality."

Yes, it's also "truly funny" to think of one of these puny engines pulling a boat or hauling a load of concrete blocks. I imagine they'd last all of 2 miles.

"The warranty on Toyota and I can say the manufacturer as the import fan does truly does not reflect 2009 other models with 100,000 mile warranties."

By "other models", I assume you mean GM trucks because they are the only ones offering the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I checked Ford and Toyota. They both offer a 5yr/60,000 mile powertrain warranty and all three have the same 3yr/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Dodge, of course, has their lifetime limited warranty. That's a great deal on a nice truck. Their bumper-to-bumper is the same as the others'.

So... again, to clear things up, comparing powertrain warranties, Ford and Toyota have 5yr/60,000mile warranties; GM has their 5yr/100,000mile warranty; Dodge has an unlimited/lifetime warranty (non-transferable). ALL have a basic 3/36 bumper-to-bumper warranty.

The 22RE is not a good engine.

The blow head gaskets frequently and leak a lot of oil, frequently.

The number of 22REs I've seen blown up on the trails is 10x what I see of 4.0L Cherokees, Pathfinders, and any other domestic trail rig. Period.

Actually, I've never seen a domestic engine blow up on a trail during a hard, VERY hard run. Toyotas, yes. And frequently, too.

20:32 so I can pick just 3... 2009 stock domestic engines that indicates absolutely no technological advances since 1955? Hardly.

2009 Corvette 620 HP 0-60 under 4 seconds... 2009 Mustang Shelby 450 HP, and not forgetting Dodge the 2009 Challenger Hemi.

Wish I could add more... I would pick any of these 2009 domestics mated with 6 speed transmissions.

When you open your garage door and get inside your new 2009 vehicle, what enthusiasm can you share being you have the best vehicle? Other than turning the key and riding somewhere, I am disappointed both with lack of styling, the blandness, handling, spartan plain aspects of most Toyotas I am seeing. The design elements - are they the cupholders?

As far as warranty, I would now personally dump a vehicle as soon as the warranty expires... it will never happen to me again with our imports weak warranty expired rapidly. Indicating new domestics will fail in 70,000 miles I put it another way. If your import fails at 70,000 miles with manufacturing defect with absolutely no 100,000 mile warranty, what do you say? The answer is likely, do you take credit cards to repair my vehicle? I have all my repairs done at dealership on scheduled intervals, and have not had any of the so called catastrophic failures on my late model GM Silverados. I tack on miles rapidly and surpassed your figure with ease, with towing and they were very nice vehicles when sold. I am commenting on V8 gas models not small 4 cylinder pickups.

Appreciate any clarification on what specific model/year acquired, not what manufacturer only when commenting on the full size forum.