2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

11:26 Again, very funny. Supervised restructured means supervised restructuring. BANKRUPTCY means out of money, or at least not enough to operate; hence, not enough to do business and OUT OF BUSINESS.

The U.S. government may choose to GIVE them enough money to be BACK in business, like they made the mistake of doing once already, which produced nothing positive. If YOU own a business and are bankrupt, it means the your store closes down. Period.

I've owned GM vehicles before. They're junk, so I stopped buying them. Just like hundreds of thousands of other buyers. I bought something good instead: a Toyota. Which is why Toyota is doing just fine and GM is nearly out of business. Too bad they don't build better automobiles. If they did, they wouldn't be begging for money to stay alive.

But they're still good, right? Yeah, sure. That's the perfect environment for their workers to produce quality cars... Buy a Toyota and see what a good vehicle is like.

There's millions of great full sizes. You have a small import Tacoma and have never owned any. Why fret, your truck isn't the topic or applicable to the review anyway.

21:54 owned a used GM Buick Century. Is that the comparison to condemnation of all brand new GM full size trucks and absolutely all 2009 GM cars? Please clarify as I am wondering what logic applies to every single model available from a 15 year ago used purchase. Actually being quite specific of course. And if I read the prior post, it was not a bad car, even though it was purchased used.

If you wish to condemn an entire manufacturer and expect anyone to buy a Toyota, please be specific on why your vehicle is the best full size available.

I have owned "Toyota" as well and I will read your recommendation and test any full size truck import and domestic. What full size GM model truck have you ever owned past or present, and what current full size do you currently own? Are you implying anyone buying any new full size trucks will have no where to have them serviced?

The number one reason anyone will buy a new full size today (and I know you do not own any full sizes now or in the past) is actual applications.

Service is available everywhere. Not being constricted by price only I can literally buy any full size truck available. I have very careful to buy the best application full size truck, and I find more credibility from the business owner having fleets of full sizes.

I could own a now available as used only H1 if I wished and I have looked at new Escalades, Avalanches - do not like the high sides.

Who says you have to go to a dealer? My warranty mileage goes quick if it's less than 100,000 as a Toyota and too small. I guess I could park it from non use/too small application wise anyway. That makes a lot of sense - buy a Toyota that cannot be used... maybe some can with a Tundra, and again is that the full size you recommend enough to own one?

Irregardless of political issues, how do you ever expect to convert a full size truck owner with specific needs and applications to the Tacoma you have?

"You still have not proven that Japanese cars are more reliable than domestics in any of your diatribes.'

This ONE anti-American import fanatic has already helped sell AT LEAST two Fords (and probably a lot more I don't know about). When such baseless comments are made over and over in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it has just the OPPOSITE effect. It makes people laugh first, and then go investigate for themselves. I've used JUST THIS THREAD alone to convince two of my formerly import-owning friends to buy Fords, and emailed this site to dozens of my car enthusiast buddies who regard "Tacoma Guy" as the epitome of the irrational import fan: A Ford has a bad cigarette lighter at 200,000 miles, it is "crap". A Tacoma BREAKS IN HALF at 50,000 miles and it is "superior". That stuff sells a LOT of Fords!!

"BANKRUPTCY means out of money, or at least not enough to operate; hence, not enough to do business and OUT OF BUSINESS."

BLATANTLY FALSE. Auto parts maker Delphi filed bankruptcy in 2005 (FOUR YEARS AGO) due to competition from much more cheaply built parts from Japan and China, and has been carrying on with business as usual ever since. Bankruptcy is designed to SAVE businesses, NOT put them out of business. A business operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy HAS to maintain sound business practices and operate under stringent regulations (which ALL businesses should be forced to do anyway). If GM files bankruptcy it will HAVE to stay in business to meet requirements of the bankruptcy filing, just as Delphi has stayed in business. NO difference AT ALL to customers, except better cars, better service and a legally mandated warranty.

As has been pointed out, this entire tirade against American business is helping to sell a lot of domestics, and we need that right now.

"I've used JUST THIS THREAD alone to convince two of my formerly import-owning friends to buy Fords"

I like Fords too, but someone who would buy a $25,000-$50,000 vehicle on the say-so of some nameless, faceless bloggers on a Tundra thread, no less, is a gambler of Russian proportions.

No one on here can even prove that they have a drivers license, let alone prove that they own the vehicles they claim to. In fact some of the claims made here on this site are of such an improbable nature that it's doubtful that they do.

This site is especially useful when you read detailed information given as the miles are racked up. They can really shed light on the TYPES of problems an owner may encounter with certain vehicles.

But to treat the blogs as some kind of conclusive evidence while ignoring reliability surveys suggests that somebody doesn't know either the nature of blogs or of reliability surveys. For all they know, half the bloggers on here are employed by a manufacturer.

I like Ford F150, Chevy Silverado, and 08-09 Toyota Tundra (if they continue to maintain the average+ reliability scores -- I'm a little unsure with the Toyota because of the nature of the early problems in the 07s). Dodge has a new model so I'm not sure about them... looks good, though. This is based on multi-sourced RESEARCH... not anecdotal commentary by strangers on a blog who can't even prove that they have EVER owned a full-sized truck of ANY kind.

After that it comes down to test drives, capacities, and applications. Depending on your needs, you may have quite a few good choices. If you're just towing a fishing boat, for example, you've got dozens.

But to treat a blog as anything more than blind jousting... that just honestly amazes me.

20:17 Glad I could help you sell two Fords. Please convince as many people as you can to buy more Fords. That way, those of us who actually do out research when we buy, and want something better, such as a Toyota, can pay a little less for it if people are buying junk from the "competition". Fords also keep the economy going a little more. It keeps jobs for people who work in parts stores and garages all over the country. So.. please keep buying those Fords and Chevy's; if they manage to stay in business, Toyota quality will be my little secret.

20:17 Your comment would be much more interesting if it contained a single, solitary fact. More likely, at 200,000 miles, if by some miracle, a Ford is still running and HASN'T had a second or third engine and transmission replaced, the ONLY thing the might still be working would be the cigarette lighter.

In reality, Toyota's are most likely running just fine at 200,000 miles while the Ford rusts in a junkyard. There's a reason they're worth nothing at that mileage and a Honda or Toyota IS: the import is built well enough and still has the potential for many more miles and the Ford doesn't. Hence... worth nothing or close to it.

I always got a kick out of people in anything but Toyota's that would try to follow my buddy's '91 Toyota truck off road. It most likely had two or three times as many miles on it and left the S-10's and Rangers either stuck or broken down overheating... good times. It was sold still running at or around 300,000 miles. We don't know, because, I will admit... the odometer stopped working at around 225,000 or so. That didn't seem to faze the engine that just kept running under abuse for another 100,000 or so after that. Try that with a Ford... yeah, right.

Every prior post likely Tacoma guy I have read makes me question Toyota what? Or GM what or Ford what or Chrysler what? Meaning what model on earth are you talking about?

If a person owned a used Century, how does that have any bearing on any late model full size truck? And if they have a recommendation, have they ever followed through and bought a full size truck of any manufacturer ever? Apparently this post has survived so long as those that actually owned full size trucks know otherwise.

I started out with small trucks myself and have since put many miles on my new GM Silverado trucks. I drive a lot rarely empty and tow at the same time. It's doubtful anyone is going to repeat purchase spending over $45k unless they have a specific purpose, are extremely satisfied with past performance, and have faith the vehicle will tow a very expensive investment. This is not an empty to and from work commuter. I trust it to carry my family safely while towing. None of this is ever discussed with the small car/small truck owners as they would own one if there was an application at their home.

I do not walk in with stacks of magazine articles, who is in office comments... I test them and I buy. I promise to look at every new Toyota and every other full size truck before buying. The anti domestic hatred is quite evident and I can see how it could turn even a prospective import owner for a small truck away from even considering one. I use to feel there was some kind of cachet with imports when we had them, but ours became mechanical headaches to own. When you can cover up the price sticker and buy the most capable truck (and not a F-350) I have had mixed import/domestics ownership, do not ride around as good "ole" boy or wear cowboy hats. I work, boat and play golf and just happen to also own a new domestic GM truck for towing applications.

"I like Fords too, but someone who would buy a $25,000-$50,000 vehicle on the say-so of some nameless, faceless bloggers on a Tundra thread, no less, is a gambler of Russian proportions.'

The whole point is, if a commenter is not using supportive data or rational, fact-based arguments, it tends to give one the distinct impression that they HAVE no supporting evidence. My friends who have read this thread and bought Fords bought them BECAUSE the commenter made no sense, not because he persuaded them with any arguments. It was because he doesn't HAVE any arguments. That is the whole point.

I DEFINITELY put lots of credence in the owner experiences shared here and it is usually VERY easy to tell which are bogus and which are not. If a commenter says "All fords are crap" I instantly KNOW that is a totally subjective and highly prejudiced, unfounded statement. If a commenter says "I put 277,000 miles on a 1977 Buick LaSabre (as my family did) with zero problems", I feel a bit more comfortable in accepting the credibility of the commenter.

To say this site shouldn't influence car buyer's choices is a bit hasty. I was on the brink of buying an imported sports car when I came across this site. After reading numerous posts from owners who had had warranty repairs denied, I opted to buy a Ford Mustang instead (and have been VERY happy with it). I am a certified therapist as well, so it's not hard for me to spot (and point out to my friends) BS when I see it. When a commenter who has previously stated that they have never owned a new domestic or full sized truck suddenly states "I've owned NEW and used domestics", you can immediately disregard the credibility of any previous (or future) statements from that commenter.

Of course, car buyers should NEVER base a final buying decision on ANY one source (ESPECIALLY biased magazine reviews). They should drive many vehicles and base their choice on what is more in line with their needs and what has the best quality.

Before my friends bought their new Fords, each looked over and drove my 2006 Ford Fusion and agreed the fit, finish, feel and handling were better than the 2009 Accords and Camrys they had driven. In addition, they actually talked with others who had bought Fords and driven them for a few years. This is an excellent way of determining quality and reliability.

I have yet to talk to even ONE Fusion owner who has not been tremendously impressed. The same can be said of the F-150. It takes more than reading a Toyota sales brochure or baseless rants from prejudiced used car owners brochure to become fully informed about a vehicle.

06:37 I agree. I've also owned domestics. Clearly, I wasn't biased if I bought them. The problem is, they let me down almost every time.

Now I am biased. More than 1000 comments on this ridiculous thread don't change the fact that I, along with MOST buyers, discovered Toyota vehicles at some point, bought them, and stopped buying domestics cold turkey. Sales numbers over the last decade reflect my statements.

I've said this before, but the really absurd argument is that domestics are better AND cost less. If this were true, Toyota would never have gotten off the ground. The FACT is, domestics DO cost less but you GET less. You get a LESS reliable, lower quality vehicle. Toyota's cost more because they're WORTH more; i.e. built with a higher standard for quality. FAR better research and development practices; hence a better product that lands on the dealer sales lots.

I've seen the same argument about Honda's on Honda threads. Anybody who is mechanically aware knows that Honda builds probably the best engines in the world. But, you'll still get some people who actually believe that a Chevy Cobalt or a Ford Focus has a better engine, or is a better car. Not even close. Nor are they close to any of Toyota's products in quality, cars, trucks, vans, or otherwise.

"If GM goes out of business (HIGHLY unlikely) you import fans most likely won't be buying ANYTHING. If the U.S. auto industry goes under, so does the ENTIRE ECONOMY."

First of all, the US economy will not go into a depression if the US auto industry fails. Manufacturing is no longer the largest industry in the US economy. In fact, auto manufacturing doesn't even make the top 50 on the current list. Education, medical, technology, and even grocery stores are all considerably higher than that of the auto industry.

Secondly, I have to agree with you. The US government won't allow the big three to go under. That said, what will happen is that when they do go bankrupt - which likely will be GM and Chrysler - they will emerge as smaller, niche players with smaller lineups and smaller production numbers. Bankruptcy will give GM the chance to basically eradicate their union obligations. But even so, the days of US cars and trucks are likely numbered. With the future bringing even more cars and trucks from India and China, the US auto industry cannot compete on that level.

21:50 I also am extremely specific and own a new full size domestic GM Silverado. Since the topic is specifically full size trucks, I appreciate direct comparisons as well.

Some might feel that my new full size truck was a considerable investment, and I would like to know how you spent more $ specifically and attained a lot more than myself with your research on full size models. Why would you spend almost $50,000 and what far greater functions, applications were attained?

Since I own a new full size and apparently spent less and received less, what is it exactly that your truck has? I drove them both and bought just 1. It was not pricing by the way. This is not a small 4 cylinder vehicle, it's a considerable investment and I suspect you have many posts.

Is the model I bought and comparing to a "Toyota whatcar" or a "Toyota whattruck"? If you indicated you spend more and get more, what do you specifically have? It would nice to just say I have a F- Series, Tundra, Silverado, Ram, Titan as we all know the models on here as well as the manufacturers.

If you are conjuring about comments, be true to the exact model being compared to... full sizes.

There are a lot of cars I do not like... as well I do not like them. It's not very indicative of actual full size truck ownership and daily experience.

If you read Car Survey, I have yet to see a manufacturer, only on any reader comments. It actually has a manufacturer, a make and a year involved. Maybe there should just be a "Toyota" list and never say any more. Maybe there are others like myself that appreciate specifics as we own exact categories being discussed.

Also Honda keeps being commented on... there is not 1 single full size truck. And Aveos on here... why? What full size truck do you own that you are so enamored with and are raving about?

"The whole point is, if a commenter is not using supportive data or rational, fact-based arguments, it tends to give one the distinct impression that they HAVE no supporting evidence. My friends who have read this thread and bought Fords bought them BECAUSE the commenter made no sense, not because he persuaded them with any arguments. It was because he doesn't HAVE any arguments. That is the whole point."

The problem that you, if you are indeed a therapist, should realize is that whether or not some Toyota fanatic has a supporting rationale is immaterial to the question of whether or not one exists. Restated, it simply doesn't matter if you are able to talk down, outlast, outclass, or outthink a Toyota lover because the truth is independent of his argument. You could absolutely blow someone out of the proverbial water with your information... yet still be absolutely, utterly wrong.

Also your friends, I maintain, would have to have incredibly low standards of evidence as well. That was the point of my post. If they weren't already going to purchase Fusions because of the other evidence, to accept a blog as remotely conclusive is just plain bizarre.

Again... I'm not talking about the actual reviews on here (they have value). I'm talking about this thread.

So what if the Toyota guys on here haven't produced a compelling rationale? It doesn't make an ounce of real difference. It's a blog!!! Its likely loaded with half-truths and outright lies.

The reality is that according to most sites that use or at least attempt scientific type surveys, Toyota and Ford are some of the highest rated companies (based on average product quality) in the world. You can sit on here posting otherwise based on purely anecdotal evidence as some have done and seem to be making a rational argument. But the truth remains that the most conclusive, scientific, and large-scale studies show very similar results: Toyota AND Ford are VERY highly rated as are several brands and products from GM and Chrysler.

You and others can pretend that they are just "magazines" and that they don't represent any research, but until someone has actual proof of intentional wrong-doing in an attempt to create biased outcomes with these studies, they remain what they are: the single best source for reliability information.

You mentioned that your friends didn't ONLY look at this thread in making up their minds (that's a relief). Neither do I or anyone else that I've read suggest the same of surveys. They are ONE OF MANY factors someone should consider before their money should hit the barrel-head.

"When a commenter who has previously stated that they have never owned a new domestic or full sized truck suddenly states "I've owned NEW and used domestics", you can immediately disregard the credibility of any previous (or future) statements from that commenter."

And if you can tell with absolute certainty that the poster is one and the same person, you are a far more than a therapist, you're a demi-god. I've been wrong (I think) when I've assumed that two people were one on this thread alone... so I'm a mere mortal.

"In addition, they actually talked with others who had bought Fords and driven them for a few years. This is an excellent way of determining quality and reliability."

That's fine but a survey is helpful too because of the number of respondents. The outcome will be more conclusive... especially if you examine more than one survey to average their scoring.

16:00 These are "off-topic" comments, as the title indicates.

This whole process started with some Ford or Chevy fan bad-mouthing something they probably know little or nothing about, which is Toyota vehicles.

I haven't owned a full size truck, because I have no use for one. Besides, this whole discussion is mainly about brand superiority, and Toyota wins that one hands down, as a careful look at the reviews, frequency of repair records, problems per 100 vehicles (by brand and model), and reality will indicate.

Most of these empty comments obviously come from people who've never owned a Toyota, although claim otherwise, or at least can document all of their neighbors problems with some Toyota lemon...

Getting back to the point, I actually have owned at least one of each of the big 3's offerings, and like every single other person I've ever known that switched to Toyota (or Honda, or Nissan, I immediately noticed how much better built they are, and saw the long-term effects, which amounts to them breaking down a lot less than domestics, and in my case, never once.

New or old, I still see some people having trouble with Fords, GM's, and Chryslers. I can, and have, cited many specific examples in the past. I still continue to see how content Toyota owners are. It's simple, they break down rarely, are more efficient, and hold their value better because of those facts.