2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

"However, unlike him, my choices for cheap, reliable, used cars have been Dodge and more recently Ford, which I have typically bought when 5-10 years old for less than a few thousand dollars."

I think we're probably on a similar wavelength, but approaching it differently, which is fine. Both of my vehicles are the absolute bottom of the barrel, no-frills econo models. My truck has crank windows, manual locks, a manual transmission, cloth seats, and so on. I bought the truck for its engine, with this particular engine rated as one of the best engines in the market. The truck was only around $9,500 new off the lot back in 1995. My Wife's car is much the same.

We make pretty good money and truthfully could be buying BMW's and Mercedes. But I don't care and would rather have the cheapest, most reliable vehicle that will do its job for 15-20 years before I buy another one. People in the US seem very concerned about their outward appearance and spend lots of money on cars to do so. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the end of the day it comes down to how long you want to work and what kind of retirement you want. As-is, we save almost 55% of our incomes and even though we're only in our late 20's, early 30's could probably buy a house with cash and have enough in retirement to be pretty well set by the time we're 60.

But had we done like a lot of people and insisted on buying the nicest car that our income could strain to afford every 5 years, we would probably be in debt right now, which in my opinion is the option most people take.

I can also see the benefit to your route because due to their positive reputation, Toyotas demand much higher prices than the same vintage Ford. In fact, I have a friend who buys a 2-3 year old Taurus every 4-5 years. It usually makes it to a little under 100k before some horrible mechanical mishap occurs at which point he sells it and gets another.The cars are almost disposable. Since the cars are dirt-cheap, he still saves more money than buying a new Camry or Accord every 10 years. So if you just want something cheap, domestic brands do offer value at some level.

19:47 as well as plenty of other recent posts... do any of you actually own a late model full size truck whatsoever? I am trying to keep abreast on late model full size truck and exact equals. Does 19:47 have an exact Tundra model with specs so that I can offer an exact comparison to my new GM Silverado (full size) It speaks again of Tacoma. And I suspect the following post is Tacoma again, as it's never specific enough to be proud of what they own... it's "Toyota" certainly not the Tundra or it would be referred to. I keep waiting for anyone else that has test driven new full sizes within the past year with any new developments. It would be nice to actually learn something... when you buy a new vehicle do you not look at exact equivalents?

Full size trucks is a very dedicated specific category, so who owns a new one to compare? It's a holiday weekend, how about some serious shoppers going out and test driving some full size 2009 models import and domestics vs. the same boring vague little car and little truck tirade.

I disagree on driving a full size truck forever, especially if you have a serious investment in tow and jeopardizing a breakdown on the road with aged components. I had to leave my boat once over a hundred miles away, rent a car and drive back twice.

As far as the great savings, what if you are successful, own a home not mortgaged, can buy a new vehicle without debt... should you ride about in some beater?

I am meticulous on maintenance, especially taking a boat 60 miles offshore... and that over maintenance reflects in my new vehicles as well. Every single component on a 250,000 mile vehicle has wear, and why dump major money and have other elements still old. If I cruised around solo, towed nothing, had all my sockets and tool boxes filled I could stand on the side of road all day. I am not doing that in hundred degree heat, heavy shore traffic and messing with some old crap beater. I certainly would not pay towing, non warranty repairs far from home, rent vehicles, worry about what I am towing with losing my outdrives, electronics etc. being swiped. Maybe someone else on here has a new full size truck that may tow boats, larger travel trailers etc long distances on weekends and cannot deal with the crap.

If I were commuting solo to work, I could call on my cell and leave a $1000 used 200,000 mile truck on the road and let them take it. I wouldn't even pay the towing or storage. It's broke and done for.

It would be nice to be specific and say you have a full size truck and why you own one, what specific purpose and applications and get off the economy car discussions. Applications come first with full size, if you do nor have one how can you understand others that have invested in one? When I read "Toyota" only anymore not the exact model I am willing to bet 99.9% that its a small car, small truck owner on a full size truck review. How about saying model owned on each comment please.

"There is one point that I have to agree with "Tacoma Guy" on. Driving an old vehicle does save you money, particularly if you keep it well maintained and can handle some repairs yourself. However, unlike him, my choices for cheap, reliable, used cars have been Dodge and more recently Ford"

I agree 100%. When I returned to the university in 1995 to finish my degree I wanted an old "beater" because I had to park in a very high-crime area. I paid $300 for a 1979 Ford Pinto with 180,000 miles on it. It ran flawlessly for 4 years, then I sold it for TWICE what I paid for it. I also bought my best friend's 1990 Dodge Omni to help him out financially. At the time it had 186,000 miles on it. I drove it to 240,000 miles and sold it for exactly what I bought it for. It had had only 2 brake jobs, 2 timing belts and 1 hose in its entire life (I knew the car's history because it was best friend's car and as a mechanic I serviced it).

You can't go wrong buying an old DOMESTIC car. My experiences with used imports has been pretty awful. I'd never recommend a used import that was out of warranty. They are way too expensive to repair and they tend to have many more problems after 100,000 miles.

"I'm not helping the economy any more than he is, except by having more discretionary spending in areas other than a car payment"

You ARE helping the economy by buying ANYTHING. Even though I'd never dream of stabbing my country in the back by buying a NEW import, I heartily ENCOURAGE people (who don't mind paying way too much) to buy USED imports from DOMESTIC dealers. When I recently bought my Fusion the local Ford dealer had a lot half full of Camrys that had been traded in on Fusions, as well as two Accords and a Tacoma Pre-runner SR-5. Buying one of those would be a boost to a local business, even if it was a less-than-ideal vehicle at a ridiculous price.

Apparently, I am 'Tacoma guy', so here's some more general comments on auto manufacturers as a result of my experience tonight...

I just had the misfortune of driving a brand new Chevy Aveo tonight. Long story short, left a wedding and drove the groom's Aveo from one place to another. He paid for this car the same price I paid for my new Hyundai Accent... and the Aveo is laughable. I literally felt bad for him as soon as I sat in it. This is the most cheap, tacky looking interior I've EVER seen.

My Accent is WORLDS ahead of this car. It just looks absolutely ridiculous, is designed absolutely ridiculously inside. It looks like a go cart inside. As cheap as possible. The engine noise is a joke. The vibration from the car when you downshift and hit 3500 rpms is a low pitch buzz that just settles in your ear and annoys the hell out of you.

There is NO styling whatsoever inside. Just a random collection of cheap looking parts tossed together. Typical Chevy. No wonder they're on their way out.

As a 3 time consecutive Toyota owner, I can tell you that my Accent, while a very good car, is no match for Toyota. This Aveo doesn't even enter in the running. No wonder the reviews it gets are all terrible. They should be. I don't know how he even drives it. Made me want to get out and push it over a cliff. If this is the best Chevy can do for what he paid for it, it's no wonder they have the reputation they do.

23:08 what possible benefit can be derived from a Aveo, Tacoma comment on a full size truck review for a tentative buyer? I keep hoping someone else has some new full size trucks that can comment on actual applications, daily experience etc. What you use it for, how it tows, handles, carries loads (full size truck).

Out of 1000 plus posts, very little if hardly a handful of people likely own a 2002 to present full size.

When you open a newspaper for example to buy a new full size truck, are you on the Aveo section? Or even better, why not read about Rolls Royce and then buy a small car/truck. There's absolutely no knowledge gained by other new full size truck owners comparing to exact equivalent full size trucks. Aveo... Tacoma, go carts, great, who's buying them on a full size truck review? Seems like a sounding board that has zero effect on us that test and really buy these vehicles.

I do not understand why someone with no interest ever in owning or has zero applications dictates what those that really own have late model full sizes. Have you ever carried what full sizes can, do you know how to tow, back up? Probably never and until you do why comment on zero application knowledge? It's the little train again wishing they could.

Please buy a new or newer full size and give us actual real world illustrations. Manufacturer, model, packages and why you ordered them and how they perform daily. There's some people that own full sizes or considering buying new(er) or they would not be hanging, dreaming so much on a full size truck review. I'd be on the Rolls Royce section.... if I never will buy, own, have actual daily experience, pick a high end dream car to comment and lust after. That is what I would do rather than devote so much time on a vehicle I am not ever going to own.

"19:47 as well as plenty of other recent posts... do any of you actually own a late model full size truck whatsoever? I am trying to keep abreast on late model full size truck and exact equals. Does 19:47 have an exact Tundra model with specs so that I can offer an exact comparison to my new GM Silverado (full size) It speaks again of Tacoma."

I wrote 19:47. No I don't (and never have owned) a Tacoma. I sold my 2000 Tundra SR5 extended cab in Sept. I was just ASKING some questions. I wondered what you own and how it compares to new Tundra specs. I own a travel trailer and, like you, am wondering if someone has some actual experience with current model full-sized trucks has any cross-shopped-experience. When you are looking at trailering like I am, information about how they handle, drive, and perform over the long haul is in short supply. So I was just asking you about your experience.

You have a Silverado? How does it do? With what load weight and type? Have you had any problems? What do you use for a hitch? I've used a weight distribution type (which is the only reason a 2000 Tundra could pull my 6500lb trailer -- it's rated to pull it, but the tongue weight was too much for good handling).

The new Tundra boasts competitive specs (I've heard it can tow trailers up to 10,300lbs??), but anyone who trailers can tell you that the numbers don't necessarily tell you all you need to know.

"Yes, exactly... and NONE of them are very accurate or even remotely reliable. And YES, people lie on every conceivable type of survey, even anonymous ones. Many people would rather hold on to their prejudiced views (as import fans do) than admit that a problem IS a problem. To the average import fan, a blown engine is "just a small issue" with Toyota, but a non-functioning cigarette lighter on a Taurus with 200,000 miles on it makes it "crap"."

Demi-god (It IS a good name :) ) : Well I can't comment from the "import fan's" perspective since, as I said before, I not one. Apart from that we're just going to have to agree to disagree then because fanaticism (import and domestic) goes both ways and cancels out the effect to some unknown degree.

"In college we had a wonderful course on "How to use research, statistics and sales data to lie effectively" I LOVED that course. It was so true to life. ALL companies skew statistics and research studies for their own benefit, and magazines and "unbiased" sources are just as bogus as any. Does ANYONE really believe the ratings in Consumer Reports or J.D. Powers are 100% accurate??"

No more so than ANY decent research. Simply proving that someone CAN lie using statistics doesn't prove that they ARE. The obvious answer to you is "prove it".

Indeed, you seem to have drawn a false conclusion from your course... to whit, that all research is bogus. Your college course has been affirmed by users on this thread alone... those who use partial truths, overly narrow sources, and partial statistics that affirm their viewpoint while leaving out the rest that maybe even tells the opposite story (then, when the rest of the info is quoted, often attacking the very firms from whom they got the stats in the first place).

Simply discrediting ALL statistics leaves you with no basis for (purchase) decisions without reference to sources that are decidedly suspect due to their sample size or personal biases. In fact, if you simply removed the term "domestic" and inserted "foreign", many of the domestic fans' arguments would still sound valid because THEY AREN'T RESEARCH BASED COMMENTS. If you discredit statistics, you have perpetual argument and no resolution --- nothing but opinion... you'll rail against "Tacoma Guy" but be forced to use his arguments (in reverse).

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree because you seem to think that all studies are biased just because they COULD be... and I doubt that conclusion. We're at an impasse. I don't think that the basis for doubt should simply be a disagreement with a statistical outcome.

Stats say that ALL of the trucks involved are of nearly equal quality and that Toyota and Ford are at the top of their respective games quality-wise. But you won't accept the possibility that Toyota is any good... so... by extension ALL research showing otherwise must be faulty; All Toyota owners must be brainwashed by "add hype"; All of them are willing to lie about it; Most of them apply inconsistent standards to vehicular quality; All of them are unpatriotic; And any of them who have the unmitigated temerity to mention some problems they had with a domestic vehicle MUST BE bald-faced liars.

This seems to be the illogical package that has been being presented here on this forum as though it were somehow conclusive. I hope your friends enjoy their Fusions. They are very fine cars... according to the stats.

What does one do when they drive a $1000 vehicle that needs a $3-4000 transmission or engine? Then say they were foolish enough, it's a crap shoot on every other component with equally aged components... suspension, braking, cooling, electronics even if you have few power options. I tried this theory and failed miserably... air conditioning, heater core flooded the cab next. Add in being late to work or not making it home...

And still if you buy a Tacoma 1998 with over 200,000 miles, when are you going to address never being a full size truck ever. The economy only theory on here is pointless on a full size truck review. Some on here have worked smart and do not want a beater. I drive 30,000 miles a year and am not a proponent of this false economy... I want a newer example with a warranty/loaner, am not pulling engines and trans and dealing with expensive parts, A/C failures, electronics, heater cores again.

I tried this hanging onto my Nissan too long, but I am sure other imports share being a high mileage low value vehicle - one major repair and you're out a vehicle. Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it.

"You ARE helping the economy by buying ANYTHING. Even though I'd never dream of stabbing my country in the back by buying a NEW import"

Once more, people like me - who are from other states where Toyota and Nissan have large plants, in my case Tennessee and our neighbors in KY, don't really care about the states of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, or the rest of the rust belt states, which have been in decline for decades. Toyota, Honda and Nissan actually make major strides to take care of their employees, regardless of nation, and as such have been great for our state's economies. So when I buy a Toyota, I'm helping people that I know who live in states that I care about. Honestly, I could care less about Michigan. Sorry.

"Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it."

I think you're misunderstanding a few things here. First of all, I've kept my truck for 14 years so far and so far has had no major problems. All told, I spend perhaps less than $200 a year on repairs, and of these, most are redundant items like spark plugs, air filters, plug wires, and so forth. Like I said before, the truck is in fantastic mechanical condition and I would trust this truck to go anywhere, night or day, short trip or long trip.

A mechanical device is easy to monitor. Just because something gets old doesn't mean it's automatically going to become problematic. Age in regard to a mechanical thing is only incidental. I've seen some cars that have 80,000 miles that run and look awful. Likewise I've seen some that have 300,000 that look and run like new. It all depends on how well that car or truck was treated.

But I have my own way of driving and determining when the time to replace a vehicle is appropriate. As I said before, I am 31 years old and have significant savings in cash and retirement, not because I make tons of money, but because I don't think in black and white terms when it comes to buying stuff, which ultimately means debt, I have saved more than even the typical 50 year old mainly because most people are bad with their money and waste it buying the latest-greatest cars and trucks just because they have seat warmers and "safety". You want to know what the greatest safety device a car could have? The driver.

But you're free to keep buying cars and trucks every few years if you want. To each their own.

"11th Apr 2009, 17:36.

What does one do when they drive a $1000 vehicle that needs a $3-4000 transmission or engine? Then say they were foolish enough, it's a crap shoot on every other component with equally aged components... suspension, braking, cooling, electronics even if you have few power options. I tried this theory and failed miserably... air conditioning, heater core flooded the cab next. Add in being late to work or not making it home...

And still if you buy a Tacoma 1998 with over 200,000 miles, when are you going to address never being a full size truck ever. The economy only theory on here is pointless on a full size truck review. Some on here have worked smart and do not want a beater. I drive 30,000 miles a year and am not a proponent of this false economy... I want a newer example with a warranty/loaner, am not pulling engines and trans and dealing with expensive parts, A/C failures, electronics, heater cores again.

I tried this hanging onto my Nissan too long, but I am sure other imports share being a high mileage low value vehicle - one major repair and you're out a vehicle. Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it."

It depends on how you define "worth." When you decide to drive an old car, it means that you are not a slave to used car "value" which is only important when you get caught in the trap of trading in every four years. It doesn't matter if you only paid $1,000 for the vehicle. It has "value" so long as it continues to move under its own power and serve its function of transportation. Its value is defined in terms of how much money you save every month on a car payment. If you had a vehicle that ran and drove, but was only "worth" $50, and it needed a new alternator for $60, would you seriously junk it and decide to make a $500 car payment? Now which method is "not worth it?" Your example of spending $4,000 on an old $1,000 beater is extreme. No, of course you wouldn't spend that on that car. You would go buy another $1,000 car and drive it for 2-3 years.

12:29 with the mechanical complexity of vehicles today, unless its very minor... I would say most are better off checking fluids, fixing a flat and that's the extent of that.

I suspect your repair comments are specific to a very small truck 4 cylinder perhaps? If you had a V8 larger Tundra I suspect you might amplify your expenditures annually. I doubt you tow or carry loads, which does factor into the wear and tear. I would like to see the Tundra owner that tows a larger travel trailer and keeps it for 14 years and see the actual expenditures. Do they match to yours? Theres not enough comments on here to inform us. It's who's in office, the economy, multiple car and it seems like I have read more about Tacomas than Tundras. Maybe the Tundra owner can hold out for 14 years keep towing and add up his costs for us. Anyone price a Tundra engine or trans out of warranty?

Again, I'm really not sure why the idea of keeping a vehicle - any vehicle - for as long as possible is such a financial mystery here. Money is money. In all of the cars and trucks that I've owned, none - and I mean NONE - have had to have any major repairs. No pulling engines or transmissions here or there. The most major "repair" I've had was on my Tacoma, which was really more like routine maintenance was when the clutch was replaced, and that was after the original wore out at 210,000 miles. I did it myself with the help of a friend. The replacement parts were a total of $275 and it took us 2 hours to do the job. Like I said before, the truck is very easy to work on, which ultimately saves time.

But on the other hand, this same friend of mine was also going to help another friend the next day with his 5 year old Ford F-350. It has an impossibly complicated transmission and has been in for major repairs at least 3 times thus far, each trip costing anywhere from $800 - $3,000. The solenoids and valves within the transmission have a tendency of getting stuck, requiring a total dismantle of the entire transmission to remedy. The truck has less than 80,000 miles yet it's a nightmare to own and is eating the owner's wallet alive. If buying something newer and more technically complex is deemed superior, then examples like these don't prove the notion.

Getting back to what I have been trying to communicate. You figure that an average truck today will set you back close to $20,000. If you keep that truck for 20 years and have nothing more than brake pads and the occasional starter motor or clutch to replace versus buying a new truck every 5 years, there is no way that you would even come close to saving what the person who kept their truck for 20 years did. It is mathematically impossible.

Of course, then again if you've owned Fords and Chevys, which in many cases do tend to start having major problems after 5-6 years, then perhaps that would explain the reasoning behind buying something new before they fall apart. I've never worried about this with any Toyota I've owned. They might get old, but they stay running reliably and solidly for long past the typical useful life of your average Ford or Chevy.

But to perhaps throw out one more suggestion, if you want to save money over the long term, it's well worth simply learning how to work on your own vehicles. All in all, it really isn't all that hard. I have basic tools and yet I've done all of the maintenance and repairs on all 3 cars and trucks I own, and they have never been at an actual repair shop. It doesn't matter how old or new a vehicle is. They were built by people and can also be repaired by people. Get a shop manual and learn how your vehicle is out together.

Lastly, my Father does in fact own a Tundra (a 2002 model) and uses it for "real" work, hauling a trailer full of concrete pumping equipment every workday. It has almost 220,000 miles on it, and just like my Tacoma has required little to no mechanical repair.

"So when I buy a Toyota, I'm helping people that I know who live in states that I care about. Honestly, I could care less about Michigan. Sorry."

Sure. You're helping the 9% of all automotive workers in the U.S. who work for foreign companies. Apparently you have little concern for the other 91% of auto workers OR the entire economic stability of a country that consists of 50 states, not just a handful that employ a miniscule number of people.