2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - All Comments

I disagree. Traveling extensively abroad myself, I have seen many imports up to V-12's "gas guzzlers" with hefty price stickers from Ferrari, Lamborghinis, Mercedes. Seem to be pretty popular. Also in Florida they are pretty common as well.

As far as full size truck ownership, the number one selling vehicle in America for well over 20 years has consistently been a full size truck. It is extremely doubtful the usefulness and versatility of such a vehicle will ever disappear. If anything, they will remain unchanged with perhaps different engine designs involving Hybrids or the like down the road.

Gas is not very expensive at the moment, if anything the little smart cars have lost some appeal in our area. When someone get gas scare they seem to rush to go small. We have found the usefulness and appeal of full size truck ownership. With a family of 5, having a full size truck is not limited to weekends only towing. We have utilized ours from towing as our primary application, to attending to our rental properties, moving and carrying gear, larger shopping and being able to bring home same day items from stores, antique shops, and sometimes I will bring home a gallon of milk. It's likely that anyone actually owning such a vehicle finds how handy and useful they are.

I have had small trucks and found them to be extremely limited... needing 2 vehicles following one another, calling in friends to move my boat (s) in the past, having to still pay delivery fees as my small truck could not handle it. I also have found that someone can be taking on additional debt even buying a new small car that have bad debt ratios vs. someone that can handle buying a large vehicle with very little or no impact.

As far as traveling abroad, my final comment on that is that I have traveled and seen someone drinking from a puddle along the road and the sanitation was unreal... sure the people survive somehow, but do we wish to emulate the minimum on getting by.

Somehow I find it wrong to indicate what everyone should be driving when they own the new vehicle in question, also their residence(s) mine are all positive income and have zero credit card debt. If I can own a new very practical useful vehicle for long distance trips vs. a high mileage beater, I'll take new. I consider having a new practical vehicle ideal with a very active family... if I were solo I could stand along the road, but it's certainly not necessary for us. I have quite a few friends, some mentors that have been inspirational in not settling for the bare minimum in life. If you can successfully work hard and achieve success, feel good for those that have. Anyone that loves their new vehicle worked hard and owns it....... congratulations!

"I am always amazed at U.S. citizens who want to see our economy fail. It makes little sense.

As for heavy-duty vehicles, U.S. companies have to have them. Our companies have to have vehicles that can carry heavy building materials and be depended upon to get to and from job sites every day. Needless to say, none of our trucks are Toyotas."

Nobody on this site has said that they want the economy to fail. This topic is mostly about vehicle quality. Not a single person I know works in an automotive related company. If US carmakers fail, the US economy isn't going to implode. Lastly, I doubt US carmakers are going to outright fail overnight. GM is going to go bankrupt in order to restructure their bloated company. I would say that in the future they will likely be a smaller, leaner company. Then again, the US auto industry could slowly evaporate over time as that that used to exist in the UK, where over time most of their brands either went defunct or were bought out by foreign companies. Yet the UK economy up until recently was strong, thus it's clear that the US could easily transition from a manufacturing based economy to a service based one... which honestly we've already over the past 30 years. The factory economy is long-gone.

In regards to US companies having to have full size trucks, well the bulk of this and other countries towing is done using tractor trailers. These are not consumer vehicles.

Secondly, I agree that there are farmers, construction workers, and equipment repair people who need full size trucks. But roughly 90% of the full size trucks I see on the freeways are all for show. Most look like they are never used for anything other than hauling groceries. The argument that the average US consumer NEEDS to have a full size truck is bunk. The real answer is that most Americans are wasteful and spoiled rotten after decades of ill-gained lower cost oil.

Trust me - the current prices are a temporary stall before the economy recovers. Say what you want, but China alone will have as much as 9 times the cars that the US does if they continue with their current growth rate. I can assure you that gas prices will ultimately rise again, and do so probably higher than last summer. Once again Americans who have short memories who buy huge trucks to do nothing but haul toys, boats, campers, etc etc will suddenly find themselves with absolutely worthless, impossible to sell trucks that will eat their savings away. It's not a matter of if, but when this will happen. The bottom line is that yes, it is your choice to buy the biggest honkin' truck out there. But don't fool yourself into thinking that fuel will always be cheap and plentiful.

"I disagree. Traveling extensively abroad myself, I have seen many imports up to V-12's "gas guzzlers" with hefty price stickers from Ferrari, Lamborghinis, Mercedes. Seem to be pretty popular."

I have been to the UK, Ireland, Germany, France, and Brazil. The vast bulk of cars in all of these countries were tiny little cars. I rented a Ford Galaxy, which in Europe is a minivan. It seated 8 people but it got over 50MPG. The family we stayed with drove a Ford Fiesta. It too was a small car that got 45-50MPG. There are heavy taxes in many countries for cars. The Fiesta was 16,000 British pounds, or around $25,000 US at the time. Having a car period in other places is a luxury.

I saw maybe 2-3 full size trucks during my whole time in the UK, and these were actual American trucks imported from the US. Apparently some of the wealthy in the UK and other countries import these. That's right - the wealthy. That says a lot. What we did see a lot were Mercedes vans. You will see these in the US called the Dodge Sprinter. They're tall, ugly, and underpowered. But they are made to do one thing, and that's to haul lots of equipment and other commercial goods. They get 30MPG. A far cry from the MPG most US consumer trucks get.

The big difference between most other countries and the US is that vehicles used to haul things are purpose-built, versus the bulk of the trucks in the US, which are mostly pleasure vehicles that seldom see real work.

"When someone get gas scare they seem to rush to go small."

This is very true and not very smart. Do the math. If you trade your 6-year-old full size truck or SUV for a small car, you will lose virtually all the initial purchase price of the older vehicle. In addition if you pay $25,000 for a new hybrid you are out ANOTHER ton of money. Unless you drive 500,000 miles a year you'll NEVER recover enough to break even in such a case. When gas prices skyrocketed we checked the trade-in value on our 6-year-old GMC. It was worth $25,000 less than we paid. We had no intention of trading, but if we had traded for a $25,000 hybrid we would, in effect, be throwing away $50,000. That will buy gas for the GMC for the next century, even if it hits $5 a gallon.

"Once again Americans who have short memories who buy huge trucks to do nothing but haul toys, boats, campers, etc etc will suddenly find themselves with absolutely worthless, impossible to sell trucks that will eat their savings away. It's not a matter of if, but when this will happen. The bottom line is that yes, it is your choice to buy the biggest honkin' truck out there. But don't fool yourself into thinking that fuel will always be cheap and plentiful"

The last I checked this was a dedicated topic specifically full size trucks. The small truck owner who never has and likely never a full size is making some effort to dissuade people from buying. Whats the point? I would be equally unaffected seeing them in front of new full size truck dealerships parked out front with signs on their little car.

Heres how I have found full size truck ownership. If you are worried about fuel MPG, don't buy one... I have never checked my MPG and quite frankly why?

#2 If you are pleased that you can quickly address towing, carrying requirements, that's a very good reason to own.

#3 If you have 50/50 small truck large truck needs, how will you ever make a small truck larger?

#4 If you have zero application for a large truck, why do you have beyond zero for a small one?

I maintain small trucks can be replaced by cars, meaning hatchbacks with a rope, roof racks or small sedans with a trailer with no insurance. My friend with a Taurus pulls a big trailer. In spite of that, it cannot ever do what a full size truck can do. Having a new full size truck empty or full is "showy"? It's a truck. Trust me, few if any people driving by are overwhelmed with your buying a truck. They will never see the hidden upgrades under my hood. I like tasteful fun to drive upgrades, not the junk piled on roofs and flash. Quite frankly if there's an argument I see only full size trucks or cars with trailers. I prefer a mid size car... they ride better, handle better overall.

And I own a new truck. It's another vehicle in our driveway with a purpose. Mine has proved invaluable. I use it both for personal use and with our investment properties. I do not know if you can claim a partial tax deduction riding solo in the woods or in the mud, but let us know. Whatever anyone is driving in Brazil or other countries with cars, that's great. I am not interested. I would like to kept abreast with newest full size truck developments. I keep hoping more will appear.

Lastly, saying we will have no savings from new full size truck ownership, hardly... if I even gave mine away to my kids or whomever, it will be replaced with another. I own everything now, what more savings do I need? I will look and find another one.

The small truck/small car mentality is quite limited on a full size truck review. The reason is totally neglecting why people buy, own and have applications. My horn does go honk honk by the way... I guess yours goes beep beep or toot toot? You will never find a way to make a small truck become a full size... maybe on the small truck review you can commend vs. condemn what you never have had or will, or even understand.

"The small truck/small car mentality is quite limited on a full size truck review. The reason is totally neglecting why people buy, own and have applications. My horn does go honk honk by the way... I guess yours goes beep beep or toot toot? You will never find a way to make a small truck become a full size... maybe on the small truck review you can commend vs. condemn what you never have had or will, or even understand."

Again - I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the term: " Small truck Mentality". We're also disagreeing with why people tend to buy large trucks. I maintain that 90% of those buying full size trucks likely never or seldom if ever use them for their intended purpose. If what you're saying is that "Small truck mentality" is inferior to "Large truck mentality", then I suppose the bulk of the world's population must have a bad case of "Small truck menality" because you will not find full size consumer trucks outside of the US and Canada. Sorry.

"Large truck mentality" again is the epitome of the American who even now already forgot what a world with high gas prices is like less than a year after gas prices spiked to $5 a gallon. As said, this will happen sooner than later. I'll enjoy hearing the silence from these full size truck owners once this happens in the future.

Sorry, but "Large truck menatlity" is a dinosaur. Might as well get yourself used to the changes coming your way.

"We're also disagreeing with why people tend to buy large trucks. I maintain that 90% of those buying full size trucks likely never or seldom if ever use them for their intended purpose'

I totally agree that 90% (or more) of full size truck buyers never use them for anything beyond transportation. Due to the far greater safety of large trucks, probably 75% of the families in my upscale suburb buy their teens either a full size truck or truck-based SUV for the safety factor alone. My wife insists on driving a truck-based SUV because of the safety factor, although virtually 100% of the time there is no one in the vehicle but her (we use one of my cars to go out together). No one I know who owns a full sized truck ever hauls or tows anything with it.

I'd like to see EVERYONE switch to smaller vehicles, but the fear factor continues to drive the demand for big vehicles. Also, the media doesn't help. The big headline articles last week (April 12-18) about how dangerous small cars such as the Fit, Yaris and Versa are in collisions with larger vehicles adds to the hysteria over crashes with monstrous vehicles. I guess it's understandable. My neighbor was bemoaning the fact that his teenage son's full-sized GM truck got such awful fuel mileage (15-18mpg), but then he added "I guess it's better than having him die in a little tin can." Until a huge majority of drivers are in smaller vehicles, many people will be hesitant to risk their lives or those of their families in smaller vehicles.

This is a large truck owners survey. When you buy or own a vehicle, you conduct a survey of its daily performance, capabilities and repair records. This information enables others to compare exact equivalent models to watch out for repair issues or buy another exact equivalent.

I find it a bit off topic to never have owned a vehicle or ever plan to own one, yet post hundreds of posts not to buy. This is a forum that could be more beneficial staying on topic and relating to actual experience and ownership reflections.

The small car/truck mentality I am referring to is gas pricing or economy only. If that is why you want everyone to sell their full size trucks, keep in mind new trucks many do get mid 20 MPG, but even then that is not the reason people buy. Again it's applications never discussed by small vehicle owners, as if you own and use a full size it's instant.

I do not know where you get 90% empty, is this a figure you have derived for your specific commute in your town? Maybe go to home centers, building supplies at 6 AM and see loaded trucks... maybe go to some marinas on a hot sunny day at the ramps.

Personally I have said it before; trucks are uncomfortable and not as nice handling and driving as cars. Many own both anyway. People buy full size trucks because they get the job done... it's not just gas. Not everyone is destitute or has to drive distance crammed up taking 2 vehicles instead of one. I do not check MPG anyway. It sounds like the "Chicken Little" story on here about fuel and the sky is falling down.

Trust me, when my family gets out refreshed in a nicer vehicle and goes out in our boat, we enjoy our time off.

I love vehicles and enjoy driving... constant complaining and trying to get everyone to sell their specific vehicles on here is unlikely. I have a friend selling his beloved Vette is retiring 55 year old (pilot) and is now buying a small plane to enjoy at the local small airport. Hes not whining about buying Av-Fuel. He's looking forward to retiring and enjoying another type of transportation.

My family total enjoys our life as well. Maybe we will live longer with not being so down on others.

This is a full size truck review with owners that enjoy what they own. If they have some issues it's nice to know that as well. But the applications are there or I know I would not have bought a truck. Cars are better to drive, but full sizes work and are extremely useful. I'll take both.

"I do not know where you get 90% empty, is this a figure you have derived for your specific commute in your town? Maybe go to home centers, building supplies at 6 AM and see loaded trucks... maybe go to some marinas on a hot sunny day at the ramps."

There are those who use full-sized trucks for various towing/hauling purposes, but I have to agree that AT LEAST 90% of all the full sized trucks in our area never have anything in tow or in the bed. Far less than 10% of the public own boats or do any repairs to their homes requiring a truck to haul materials. Most people here driving full sized trucks are teenage boys. The only full sized trucks I see hauling anything here are company vehicles, such as those of my family's company. For heavy hauling they use Ford F-150', Chevys and Dodge Rams. I don't know of even one personally-owned full sized truck that ever hauls anything other than drivers and passengers. In the 6 years my next door neighbor has owned his Ford F-250 crew cab he has never hauled anything or towed anything with it. I have no idea why he bought it.

"I do not know where you get 90% empty, is this a figure you have derived for your specific commute in your town? Maybe go to home centers, building supplies at 6 AM and see loaded trucks... maybe go to some marinas on a hot sunny day at the ramps."

I live in the Bay Area, California where there is around 6 million people. So a pretty big metro. There is a few Lowes and Home Depots near our house. The irony is that honestly, the bulk of the "work trucks" trucks I see parked out front owned by contractors are small trucks. Primarily Rangers, Nissans, and Tacomas. It's ironic because all during the week you'll see these little trucks out there, loaded to the top with tools, splattered with paint and covered with little dents and scratches. They are used almost like wheelbarrows. Most look like they've been through WW2. These are what I would call "work trucks"

Yet when the weekends roll around, that's when you'll see all the weekend warriors and their huge, shiney new Chevy Silverados, Tundras, and F-150's getting their one piece of lumber of couple bags of cement.

I see a lot of nice new large trucks at our independent building suppliers quite early, typically selling EP Henry Coventry Double Sided walls, Stonewall, Travertine patios EFIS, Enviromental Stone, Penncrete, doing high end homes in our areas, not driving junk. Lowes and Home Depot do not have the quality or products.

The owners have some pretty sharp trucks towing trailers with nice logos. They are not all splattered up. They go out on estimates and it's a reflection on quality not driving a pigpen. Many have shops, yet drive their new trucks home, many with Trac Rac sliding Rails on beds, Knaack Weatherguard better boxes that slide as well. Maybe you ride around on the bad side of town.

"I live in the Bay Area, California where there is around 6 million people. So a pretty big metro. There is a few Lowes and Home Depots near our house. The irony is that honestly, the bulk of the "work trucks" trucks I see parked out front owned by contractors are small trucks."

I'm not the guy you've been trading comments with up until now, but I thought I'd tell you a bit about my experience. I was a carpet installer in Fargo, ND and central MN for 10 years. In this area, the contractors drive larger pickups. Almost all drive F250, F350, and even the occasional F450. There are also quite a few Chevy/GMC 2500+ sized pickups. I honestly can't remember seeing a contractor drive anything smaller (and I met hundreds of them) because they usually kept their tools in a large trailer. They also use goose-neck trailers to bring skid-steer loaders, etc. to the job-site so they required something larger than a small truck or 150/1500 sized truck.

Now I own a tree farm/nursery in central MN. All of our landscapers require larger trucks because they have to get big equipment to the jobsite. Most of them drive at least an F350 sized truck. Some have trucks the size of a GMC Topkick (usually a flatbed trailer behind). They often leave with a 15,000-20,000lb load of trees. While they may only get 6-8 MPG, that's really quite good compared to the small trucks getting 20 MPG loaded making 5-7 trips to move the same number. A small pickup would be overloaded with two standard 28" BB 5' conifers (2-3 more if they use a trailer). I know this because many of our homeowner customers do exactly that.

Likewise, you mentioned that you'd see them at Home Depot. That's another difference. Here, almost all of the contractors prefer lumber yards over the big box stores because of the services offered and the price they can negotiate for an entire project.

I know the Bay Area. Most of my family lives in or moved away from Santa Rosa so I've been there many times. I don't doubt your observations at all. I suspect they rent larger trucks or that they are actually subs (who often use smaller rigs). But in the right environments (farming, landscaping, contracting, trailering, or even just living in a very rural area) a full-sized truck is no toy. It is a tool that provides many answers for the varied needs of its owner.

On a side note: Some guys can indeed load their trucks up to the top with tools etc., but the DOT has been cracking down on that sort of thing around here. So work trucks almost HAVE to be big to avoid the flashing lights (or make several trips wasting time and gasoline). It's just like mandating safety seats and seat belts... people who used to squeeze 5 kids into the back seat of their Civic were forced to buy a minivan or SUV... the net effect is that vehicles get bigger for safety reasons.

Anyway, that's the way things are here. Big trucks are still needed for big work. But it IS common for even work trucks to be driven empty. Many contractors will park their trailers at the jobsite and drive empty. Many farmers will drive the same truck, that was pulling an ammonia tank hours before, to town empty. Everyone can't own a different vehicle for every need, so they may get used to go to the grocer too. That doesn't mean that they're unnecessary... rather the opposite. Cheers!

This is my original review. I will give you all an update on this truck, since it's been a year.

First, I am not sure what all the debating is about, this is simply a review of a truck. After another year, the truck is still proving to meet all my needs, and remains as reliable as a Toyota should be. This has been my favorite light duty truck I have ever owned. It has its limitations for sure if compared to a F250 or Chevy 2500, but this little truck has done everything I have asked it to. The small block V8 pulls our small camper with ease.

As for payload.. I only use this truck to pull with, and an occasional trip to the local HD or Lowes for some 2x4's. This Tundra is a great truck for this kind of stuff. I don't need a 2500, this little truck does all this typical homeowner needs.

Nothing has broken in the last year since the original review. I treated her to a new tonneau, after 7 years the first one was pretty shot. That's all I have to say about my great little 'Yota. I love it.

Thank you to the original reviewer!

I agree. I also do not know what all the debating is about, as this certainly began as a review of a little truck.

Do you think these bazillion comments were left by 2 guys arguing with each other, or 1 guy arguing with himself? :)

The fact still remains that the structural components and construction practices used on the Tundra are VASTLY sub-standard to those used on domestic trucks. Having owned and worked on domestic and Japanese cars and trucks, I can assure you that the frame components, axle shafts, front suspension components and brakes on the Japanese vehicles are much smaller and weaker than those on any domestic. As long as the truck is used basically as a car (in other words just for grocery hauling or taking the kids to soccer games) a Tundra should be adequate. For anything more strenuous than hauling a small load on paved roads, you're going to be much better off with a more reliable and more solidly built domestic (ANY domestic. All three are up to the task). Our companies use Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks. We simply can't afford the down-time that less rugged trucks (I.e. Tundra and Titan) require. If you don't haul anything regularly and drive on paved roads, you might get 100,000 miles out of a Tundra. If you use it as a TRUCK, you won't.

Actually, I think most of these comments were made by Ford and Chevy fans and/or self proclaimed mechanics who cannot accept the fact that a foreign company (Toyota) makes far better vehicles than Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. It bothers them, so they like to attack Toyota for having the gall to be a higher quality auto manufacturer and still be FOREIGN at the same time. I have gotten a kick out of reading it all though.