2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

To 17:18. No, domestic makers WOULDN'T do that... because they build frames strong enough not to BREAK IN HALF!!

17:33: Well, we did a lot more off road with our Toyota than spinning donuts. The kind of stuff that I've seen many times put Ford, Chevy, and Dodge vehicles in the garage with scattered transmissions, radiators boiling over, and broken driveshafts and front suspension. Toyota trucks are the only ones that held together consistently through it all. That's a fact. Yeah, I owned a Dodge truck. I couldn't trust it to get me to the places off road that my Toyota of the same year did. Plus, the Dodge got about 13 miles to the gallon. If I ever want that kind of performance again, I'll buy a farm tractor from 1932. I think I'll stick with the Toyota. I feed it less and it gets me more places, and without breaking down.

Any time a manufacturer recalls more vehicles than it sells in a year (as Toyota has) referring to recalls of any other vehicle seems a little pointless. And YES, in 20 years us domestic owners WILL still be raving about our solid, well-built GM and Ford trucks because we will still be driving them. There are more 20 year old Ford and GM trucks still on the road than there are all Toyota trucks combined. As for "archaic" and "antiquated", please list ANY features current Toyotas have that GM or Ford doesn't. In driving both import and domestic vehicles I have seen absolutely no difference in safety or convenience features, or any difference in drive-train technology, except that GM does have the incredible Onstar system and Toyota doesn't.

Wait, so the domestic automakers make frames that don't rust? Nope didn't think so, they just won't recall them when they do. I would love for you to come to Northern Ohio and tell everyone, myself included, how great and rust proof these domestic frames are. Heck, I had a S-10 that the frame and floor boards rusted out in 8 years. The only way I have found to keep rust down is to ensure that you get undercoating every 3-4 years.

To the guy that said Ford is great at handling recalls, please tell me how many people had to die before Ford decided to recall the defective tires, or how many trucks/cars had to catch on fire from a defective wiring harness, before Ford found it reasonable to recall it. Maybe you can explain why Ford has yet to recall the airbags in the 2006-2007 F-150, even though there is a 50/50 chance they may not deploy. I have personal experience on that one; got hit head on in my buddy's F-150 over Memorial Day weekend and the airbags didn't work. When my buddy enquired as to why they didn't deploy, he was told that there seems to be a problem with a lot of them and they (Ford) was looking into it. Maybe you can tell me why GM never recalled the 1997 Blazers, with their wiring problems, bad 4x4 transmissions, and the faulty cooling systems, just to name a few things that were wrong.

That 97 Blazer was my last GM product, and since I moved on to Toyota, I have not had the problems that I faced with GM and Ford. It is nice not to have things break before 30k miles, and be told that is the life of that part, so the warranty doesn't cover it or the famous "it is normal for it to do that" line from the service center when you take a vehicle in.

To the guy who says he wouldn't buy a Toyota because they don't make anything that meets his needs, I feel sorry for you. But you can't knock a company because they don't make a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. That would be like saying Ferrari sucks because they don't offer a mini-van.

To all the people talking about warranties, from what you guys keep saying that a better warranty makes a better vehicle. I guess you people will be buying Hyundai, seeing how they offer the best warranty and have for the last 10 years. Warranties are not worth anything when the dealerships find reasons not to have it covered under warranty, which I have had happen numerous times with GM and Dodge vehicles. Did you know that between Onstar and the on-board computer there is a complete record of everything you have done to the vehicle (like high revs and oil not changed in time) that will be used to void warranties?

I have a 2004 Tundra, and it does everything I need it to do, and without all the problems. It does everything that any of the other 1/2 tons are able to do. If you need more, then you have no choice but to look elsewhere.

"24th Jun 2008, 21:45.

17:33: Well, we did a lot more off road with our Toyota's than spinning donuts. The kind of stuff that I've seen many times put Fords, Chevy's, and Dodge's in the garage with scattered transmissions, radiators boiling over, and broken driveshafts and front suspension. Toyota trucks are the only ones that held together consistently through it all. That's a fact."

No, it's NOT a fact, it's an opinion. How many hours per day, days per week, miles per hour, number of trees hit, depth of mud, etc. of this kind of use? How old, how many miles? If you can't quantify it, it's nothing more than stating your opinion that "Yeah, we used to really get on our trucks, dude, nothing else could stand that!" It means nothing. Nothing.

You took your truck out and beat on it once in a while and, in your opinion, it was abuse that no other vehicle would stand up to. It means nothing more than the usual high school chit-chat. All you can say is that in your experience, your Toyota was great. You do not have enough backing to say that your Toyota is better than every Dodge, Chevy, and Ford past and present. That is an unfounded statement, thus an opinion rather than a fact.

Again this pertains to the small Toyota trucks... the Tacoma. The Toyota Tundra is the closest to a full size truck, if you don't count the T100, which was a underpowered flop.

The first year production of the Tundra annually only was the equivalent of one month of the F Series sales. I feel that Toyota should have just focused on small trucks; it's a good niche and maybe they see it now... even now they may make 200,000 Tundras being potentially sold for the entire year, and they are scaling back now. In all fairness, all full size trucks are. If you are a full size truck candidate, if you look at imports there is such a limited range to even look at. Without dedicating a commitment to that, I cannot see chasing the domestics on equal ground. The domestics have a wide selection to opt from, and full size candidates do their homework.

Interesting that you compare Chrysler with import full size trucks. I liked the Titan much better than Tundra, and the upcoming hook up with with Chrysler in the near future should help. As it is now, Titan has the worst full size truck, longest current sales time sitting on lots.

Still, overall, after reviewing and driving, my favorite is the new Silverado: great ride, handling performance, best warranty and the best resale of the full size trucks.

Maybe my comments may help others rather than the perpetual emphasis of the compact Tacoma over and over. I cannot see how that has relevance on a full size truck review, let alone beating around in the dirt.

It's the same with a full size SUV owner that likely bought them to start with because they needed one. They may downsize to a crossover before trading small... it's more likely buy a new crossover or not trade, and buy a second more fuel efficient new vehicle.

For anyone considering a full size truck today, there must be relevance with the application; better load towing, room and capability.

I bought a new full size as I need one. I will not endanger others with a marginally sized vehicle trying to make it fit all applications. I also do not ride off road; however if I ever do, I hear the Tacoma is good for that. Even if gas is cheaper, I cannot make a small truck work forever.

So what is the definition of best? It is what your intentions are, and finding the best vehicle to fit your application. Tacoma is not the best, and how can it be if its not a full size truck (as is the heading on this review).

I looked a lot before I bought, and the Tacoma was not a candidate, by the way. I will still look at any great new full size pickup, import or domestic, in the future, and buy the best applicable model that works the best. I feel I am not driven by brand loyalty as I compare, test and buy. Dealers like having a shot at selling me (at least), and I do my best to be fair in my judgment.

I like this survey, and base an opinion from here by many reviews of the pertinent vehicle; not just one. We all feel we each have the best, as we bought our specific vehicles; correct?

16:27 Ahhh... no. I had a '79 Malibu that literally broke in half at the section of the frame near the passenger rear wheel. And no, this wasn't recently; that was 1990 or so.

You know what Chevy did for me? Just as I'd expect: absolutely nothing. They just kept selling junk to other people just like they do today. That's around when I switched to Toyota.

Come to think of it, I had a Ford Ranger after that. It was far and away the most miserable, problem prone piece of domestic garbage I've ever seen or heard about. They should have recalled the entire truck, which is exactly what Toyota did for me when the frame went bad on me. I was simply stuck with the Ford and Chevy, yet Toyota bought the whole thing from me for more than I paid for it, and in worse condition and triple the mileage on the day I bought it.

Seems fairly obvious which company takes care of their customers and which don't. Glad I wasn't dumb enough to buy yet a third domestic, and have been stuck with another one draining my wallet.

I now drive a new import car, bought with cash from the check that Toyota traded me for the title of my truck, and I had money left over.

So, all manufacturers have their issues, although Toyota obviously builds the higher quality product and is willing to back it up in a way that the domestics never have and probably never will.

Oh, and by the way, is anybody else out there old enough to remember all those Dodges that the engines literally fell out of onto the ground because of rusted motor mounts and so forth? Good old domestic quality. Never had it and still don't.

I see comparing a 1932 farm tractor and a 1995 compact Toyota pickup together as both being entirely pointless on a full size truck review. Not everyone buys only about fuel costs... saying big fat guys drive big trucks is pretty rude as well does not strengthen your compact import truck position in the least. The additional headroom is however very beneficial in the full size domestics, as well as better room and seating to carry 4-5 individuals on extended trips. Better than a backbreaking ride in a Tacoma. I'll take 20 mpg on the expressway in comfort, than 30 mpg and a trip to a chiropractor.

As of today, GM's was once again downgraded. They've lost over 2/3 of their stock value in a little over a year. Ford isn't doing all that well either. Both of these companies relied way too heavily on what? Full sizer pickup trucks and SUVs. That and they pretty much ignored their small and mid sized cars for too long. On top of that, none of the big three offer anything close to what I'd call a decent compact or mid sized truck.

With gas prices being what they are, you can bet that all those folks who think they have to have some huge truck to haul their families around in are either going to be jumping to family cars, minivans, hybrids, or compact and mid sized trucks. Full size trucks, regardless of manufacture, are history.

If you want to talk about warranties and problems, who can possibly forget about GM's Dexcool? Its the red factory coolant they put in their cars and trucks since the 90's. I can't tell you how many friends I've had who blew head gaskets in their GM vehicles because the coolant eventually clogged some of the coolant passages. Dexcool has a tendency to coagulates over time, plugging up the cooling system. This problem has never been recalled.

I haven't had any issues with my Dodge Viper V10 with the engine falling out or any engine mount issues. The tilt hood allows excellent access to the Dodge's engine compartment however. Comments probably do not matter as does a small Tacoma,79 Malibu and former compact truck Ranger owner that also owns a little compact car. How about full size truck comments. Care to share any?

21:57 I've owned two Toyota trucks, and I'm not sure why you say the ride is back-breaking. I had no problem with it. Everyone knows they run practically forever, and make much better drivetrains than any domestic, so I guess you're left with attacking the SEATS??? in a Toyota?

Here's the deal: Toyota is on the way up because they sell good vehicles and always have. Deal with it. The Big 3 are not 'big' anymore and probably won't even be '3' for much longer.

Want to know what I just read on my homepage about a minute ago? Here's the headline: "GM posts worst loss in 53 years, experts say 'sell'." Why are they in that position? Because they sell junk and people are tired of it. Not a lot of people are buying trucks because of gas mileage.

Ford can't compete, we all know what troubles they've had. I'm dating someone working in a law firm that has handled some of Ford's many lawsuits, and with what I know that I probably shouldn't, you couldn't give me a Ford. In fact, they just recalled over 600,000 F-150's for some vacuum issue that could cause brake failure. Typical Ford.

Dodge... doesn't even count anymore in my book. Their recent attempts at economy cars are a complete joke, like the rest of their cars and SUV's, and, as a matter of opinion, I think they must have crazy people designing the bodies on everything they make. The Nitro? It looks completely ridiculous, just like a lot of vehicles they make now. Plus Dodge's well known reputation for gas guzzling cars and trucks. They aren't even in the picture anymore.

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and even Hyundai are the way of the future. Because they make good vehicles. The first three I mentioned are undoubtedly tried and true reliable, and Hyundai is improving every year. I should know, I just bought one and can report that it's built more solidly than any domestic I ever owned. Maybe Toyota will buy GM when they finally go under and turn them into a reputable company by teaching them how to build something that lasts.

I read the 1979 Malibu comment that had its frame break in its 11th year of ownership. Sounds like a Dukes of Hazzard maneuver, or did you ever wash the undercarriage off with salt exposure and wet mud embedded in the frame. Even if you do not currently live in a salt belt, someone may have.

I owned a 1978 Monte Carlo, closest to the 1979, that I bought new and it was a great new car at the time. I put over 100,000 miles on it with no issues.

I wash my cars/trucks at least twice a week (black vehicles look nasty when dirty, but great when clean) and have never had a frame break. Why beat vehicles, what's the point?

I do see the advantages of a nice domestic V8 that has power and durability to haul and tow. I found the engines do not work as hard and have an easier life in a full size application. Please no more Tacomas; they are too small.

05:46 Just to clear things up, I owned the Malibu you asked about. There was no 'Dukes of Hazzard' maneuver. I fail to see how even if I HAD driven it that way, that it would have cause terminal rust.

And to answer your question, the car was immaculate. I clean and maintain my vehicles as well as anyone else you are ever going to speak to. It was spotless inside and out, as well as underneath. I just couldn't stop the rust.

The point is, this is Toyota's first frame rust issue. Don't pretend the domestics haven't had MANY. They have. The difference is, to my knowledge, the Big 3 have never had the guts to back up their product like Toyota did with my former Tacoma. You know as well as I do that Ford or Chevy never would have given me the deal that Toyota did; more like nothing at all.

So ask your girlfriend that works at the law firm if she has heard of Consumer Affairs... and Toyota sludging/air bags faults, braking and drivetrain issues. I wonder if you pick her up in a mud encrusted vehicle, but that's your issue as well.

I also have a very easy solution, especially if you live in the Midwest; it's called a garage. I have a 3 car garage; a bit unusual, but it's a newer home, and I have always had a garage. Preserves the vehicles and their finishes, and pays off at resale time. I also go through car washes and thoroughly keep my vehicles immaculate.

I would not worry about the big 3...they will no doubt re-shift and produce a large selection of fuel efficient models that have great styling and handling. If GM buys Toyota at some point... I wonder if you will buy a Ridgeline next.

"26th Jun 2008, 17:08.

Want to know what I just read on my homepage about a minute ago? Here's the headline: "GM posts worst loss in 53 years, experts say 'sell'." Why are they in that position? Because they sell junk and people are tired of it."

Sorry, but economic profitability has little to do with product quality. There have been a number of auto makers that made great products, but they just could not make money. Bantam Cars (who designed the original Jeep) ; Packard (luxury cars that exceeded Chrysler and were comparable to Cadillac) ; Cord (made the first front wheel drive, fuel injected car with hidden headlights, 50 years ahead of its time) ; Studebaker (made simple, dependable cars that are still on the road) ; Plymouth (made the iconic Barracuda and Roadrunner) ; Wisconsin Traction Company (made the first 4x4 vehicle). They all went bankrupt, and yet they all made good products. They went out of business because their good products cost too much to make, and they didn't sell enough of them.