2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

Due to recent lapses in quality, the Tundra and Camry are no longer recommended by Consumer Reports (last month issue)

To 11:44 No. Ford does not and never has outranked Honda in quality. Ford isn't even in the same ballpark as Honda when it comes to reliable engines. Japanese auto manufacturers are still at the top of every review I've read.

Show where you read that Ford outranks Honda. And just because Ford claims in their tv commercials that they are 'as reliable as Toyota' doesn't make it true. It isn't. And never was.

Ford has made some forward progress. They're a little better than the complete garbage that GM is pumping out, and certainly ahead of Dodge's completely ridiculous line of cars, but they're nowhere near the level of a Honda or a Toyota.

The Ford Fusion (yes, that is a FORD the last time I looked) outranks EVERY CAR (including Honda) that Consumer Reports has ever reported on in its history. Look it up.

If some of you flag-waving domestic folks want to go out and put your trust in a GM or Ford product, then go ahead and be my guest. We who have owned Toyotas for decades with zero problems won't stand in your way.

Here's the brief history of automobiles in the U.S.: it started out with the domestics getting big, the BIG 3. They made decent cars in the beginning years. They made money. With no competition in the states, they felt no pressure to improve their product; people had no choice but to buy from them because there was nothing else available. Quality slipped drastically through the 70's, 80's, and '90's.

In the 1070's, Toyota and Honda began selling cars in the United States that were so much better built than any American product that people immediately took notice and started buying them. Through the 80's, 90's, and right up until this day, more and more people are leaving the Big 3 and buying foreign cars, because they last longer, run better, have less trouble... many reasons.

NOW, the Big 3 are beginning to see the error of their ways, and are just beginning to make their stuff a little better. The problem is, it's too little, and way too late. There are millions of loyal Toyota and Honda owners, like myself, who have been driving them for 10-20 years, having practically no trouble at all with them, and will continue to buy them because we know how much better they are than any GM, Ford, or Chevy. And our numbers are growing.

And by 'us', I mean smart consumers. We're not getting burned again by the Big 3. I understand why you domestic owners get all excited. GM and Ford aren't making the complete and total junky, disposable cars they were in the 80's and 90's. They're improving, and you see that. However, they are still miles and miles behind the kind of build quality that Toyota and Honda were holding themselves to almost 30 years ago.

I understand you guys get all excited because a few domestics have gotten decent Consumer Report ratings now. I know the feeling; the difference is, as a Toyota owner, I can look at the ratings over the last 25 years and see my Toyota's right on top, consistently. Not a flash in the pan Ford Fusion or anything. Cars like the Corolla, tried and true for three decades.

Ford always raves about their new cars, then as a few years pass, they end up being recalled nightmares, same as GM's cars. They're all good when they're new. The difference is that Toyota's and Honda's stay 'good' when the GM's and Fords fall apart.

I noticed 21:40 conveniently leaving out transmissions in their Honda comment. How about 3 transmissions in a 2002 Honda? And an automatic to boot. GM makes far superior quality my large pickup and SUV have had absolutely no issues. I bought both brand new and know their repair history.

I would not comment ever on a used vehicle on here as who knows if there was neglect, hidden accidents etc etc. that can sway a review. I think a comment should include the year being commented on, and if acquired new, before condemning an entire brand.

14:20 Over and over disregarding recent serious issues with Toyota quality and mechanical concerns. Toyota is the best so the dissenter says to us... so here's a way to really test that theory even is its just hypothetical. If you were handed the opportunity to have 3 cars just given to you.... worth any dollar value... you want past or present vehicles (that you could not resell and had to keep) how many would be any Honda or any Toyotas? Think it over, what would you pick? It's just a way to test hearing how they are the best. It would take me days however to select many domestics past or present. Not one choice would even remotely be any Honda or Toyota. It would seem anything that is the so called best would be either without hesitation.

Maybe why that is even more of a consideration when you work and buy a vehicle, to never lose sight of that.

I would really appreciate a clear and concise definition of "quality" (and "because I say so" or "I own a 10 year-old Tacoma that still runs" does NOT count).

Is it number of repairs in a given time? If so, please cite records indicating this.

I've NEVER had a transmission or engine replaced in a domestic truck. Wouldn't that constitute "quality"? I know Tundra owners who HAVE had engines replaced (and the truck has only been out a very few years).

I also know people who have replaced transmissions, brake rotors and suspension parts in Tundras. Is this "quality"? What about Honda and Acuras many failed transmissions. These repairs are EXTREMELY expensive. Is that "quality"?

If the Ford Fusion is ranked HIGHER than the Accord, isn't that a sign of "quality"? If not, WHY not? In most forums simple opinion is of absolutely NO value. If a person has no personal experience with a vehicle and cannot cite reliable and unbiased data to support their claims, it means nothing. We've seen the plea made hundreds of times on here to the import fan who constantly belittles anything American to PROVIDE DATA. We have never seen a single source quoted or a single piece of data including frequency of repairs (the ONLY proof of "quality"). Why not? Could it be there simply is none?

20:25 I'll be glad to define 'quality' for you. The definition of quality is "the degree of excellence of a thing". The degree of excellence of a Toyota or Honda automobile is high, therefore 'high quality'. The degree of excellence of a Ford or GM automobile is low. They are 'low quality' vehicles. Which is exactly why they sell for less, don't last as long, and lose a greater percentage of their value over the years than a Toyota does.

That is a fact. Even if you do not agree with it or choose not to believe it, it still remains a fact. Not because I say so, but because that's the way it happens in reality.

Anyone that owns a Toyota or Honda wish to comment on 20:08's comment? Did not think so... I am certain I would not pick any Honda or any Toyota..... even 1 out of 3 not happening,

"In the 1070's, Toyota and Honda began selling cars in the United States that were so much better built than any American product that people immediately took notice and started buying them. Through the 80's, 90's, and right up until this day, more and more people are leaving the Big 3 and buying foreign cars, because they last longer, run better, have less trouble... many reasons."

Sorry, but this is just not true. You make it seem that Japanese cars appeared on our shores one day and took the country by storm. The actual case is that the Japanese cars that appeared in the 1970's were slow, unreliable, poorly running junk. However, they were cheap, and in the age of the Arab Oil Embargo when people were giving away their GTO's, they got better mileage than the Big 3's V-8's.

Japanese cars did eventually become more reliable, although they have always been nothing more than bland appliances, and their main selling point has always been better fuel economy.

It may be true that Japanese cars were better poised in the 1980's to increase market share, because they had greater experience with smaller engines, while US auto makers were trying to play catch-up with 4- and 6-cylinders and shift away from 8-cylinders due to increased emission standards.

By 2000, US cars were fully caught up and have now exceeded the quality of Japanese cars. True, market competition was good, and forced the US companies to make a better product. The Japanese cars have never had the appeal as anything more than basic transportation, and have always been without a soul.

Hopefully the US auto makers will survive the next 18 months of downturn, and people will start to discover that American cars are superior again.

One of the main arguments the Toyota fans have used is that declining sales indicate "crappy" quality. Well, the June sales figures are in. GM sales dropped by 18.2%. Toyota sales dropped by 21.4%. Now we have some positive proof that Toyota is "crapper" than GM.

I test drove a 2008 Tundra... 2008 Silverado has it beat handling, room, comfort, load capability, towing and warranty. And looks too.

I agree, talk 2008 only either way, and very shortly 2009's. And small trucks, old trucks and small cars have zero relevance on a full size truck review.

Just to clear a few things up. First Toyota came to the US in the Sixties, not the 70's.

Second to the people who keep saying Toyota only produces small appliance vehicles that are no fun to drive. It is very clear that you have never driven any of the Toyota Supras. Before someone says they don't make them anymore, yes they do. They just are not sold in the US, but you can still buy one and have it shipped over. Which is a better deal anyway, as the ones in Japan have more horse power and higher top end.

Third to the people who keep saying that old Toyotas will never be worth as much as their (insert old car name). I would like to mention a few Old Toyotas that have really held there value.

The 1967-1970 Toyota 2000gt, which sold new for less than $7000 and now you will not be able to get one for less than $200,000.

How about the the 1960's Toyota FJ & BJ -40s (BJ were 4x4), which sold new for less than $5000, and good luck finding one for less than $20,000 that doesn't need a lot of work. One with matching numbers and in good shape will start around $60,000.

Another thing on this topic; not all Fords, GMs, and Dodges will become top dollar collectors cars. Actually very few of them do, yeah there are some Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, and others that are worth a good amount, but it really depends on the year and extras that are purchased. Just ask all the people that have the mid-70's Corvettes with the smaller engine, or all the people with the smaller engine Camaros.

I suspect that of the nearly 180 comments, of which there probably would have been perhaps 4 or 5 overall, is due to a single Tacoma owner calling domestics crap and attacking the big 3.

On the other hand, there seems to be a far greater majority that prefer full size domestics. There are GM, Ford and Chrysler owners that have apparently found more functional features, benefits and warranty.

If you read through the comments, the domestic owners also have highly detailed lucid comments. No comments such as "I said so and that's all there is to it" "The big 3 is garbage" "Plain and simple that's how it is" All comments based on ownership of a small truck over 10 years ago.

I'd say read all the former detailed comments and the vagueness of the import small truck owner. Its easy to identify the same individual over and over. I doubt there is a single individual that can knock every single model from 1 manufacturer, let alone 3 with first hand expertise. And over 10 years ago? Technology does not stand still my friend.