2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

16:00; The foreign/domestic debate was over a long, long time ago. The imports (Toyota/Honda specifically) clearly took the lead with superior quality, resale value, lower cost of ownership company-wide among the fleet, higher efficiency, and simply overall better vehicles.

Here's how the domestic/foreign debate can be summarized; and I know this is common; I've seen it all my life:

I just got back from a long trip to camp, 8 of us went, took 4 vehicles, a Hyundai, a Nissan and 2 Fords, all about the same age within a year or two of each other. Both Fords broke down.

Actually, one Ford needed repairs just to make the trip and the other overheated on the way there.

You can talk if you like about who maintains what and how, and I need to be more specific. I could do that, but the end result would be the same. Both Fords broke down.

I've seen this my whole life. No matter how they were maintained, the Toyota's and Honda's for example get you where you need to go, and use less gas doing it. If something's going to break down, it'll nearly ALWAYS be a Ford or a Chevy.

My girlfriend's idea of maintaining her Nissan is to drive it 90 miles per hour to work every day and not even know how to open the hood. It's an Xterra, and is what pulled the trailer full of stuff to camp. The Fords are barely put together well enough to haul their own weight up a hill without falling apart. That's just what I've come to expect from them, while my imports always do the job flawlessly.

Two 30-year-old Fords with over 200,000 miles each are hardly comparable to a brand new Nissan (one of the world's most UN-reliable cars) and a Hyundai.

Yes, Toyota is going to reduce the production of the Tundra and Sequoia. But this has nothing to do with anything other than high fuel prices. Ford and GM are simply closing full size truck plants and laying off their employees altogether. So your argument that "ah-ha! they're closing plants because their trucks were bad!" is incorrect. In fact, Ford has delayed the launch of their new F-150- another result of high fuel costs.

I wouldn't buy a Tundra either. But I wouldn't buy anything full size given the cost of gas, no matter who makes it. That goes for just about everyone else. Have you seen any new Ford Expeditions lately? I haven't, and the few I see are for sale.

This marks the end of the full size truck and SUV era. Or course contractors and professional business will need large trucks, but trucks will increasingly become niche vehicles just as they were prior to the truck craze of the 90's.

19:53 you can take out the word Toyota Tundra and replace it with GM Silverado. Plus better ride, better towing, better handling, more people carrying capacity, better warranty.

Let's look at the new 2008 Corvette V8 great engine just for fun... 0-60 under 5 seconds, 180 mph top speed, outstanding fit and finish on the newest models and better mpg both in city and highway then the Toyota Tacoma and the Tundra. Go to Edmunds true cost to own on full size trucks and resale over 5 years... on full size trucks

The Tacoma comment pertains to the V6's mpg to the 2008 Corvette V8...

Just to clarify earlier comment. Thx.

Its pretty interesting to just show how focused on MPG people are at the moment. Imagine owning a great car like a Corvette, having a better mpg and 100,000 mile warranty as well, than the V6 Tacoma or Tundra. With a great V8 engine. That has to be the greatest bargain; to do the same with an import would cost 2-3 times as much.

If you quit buying full size trucks, look at what MPG you can have with a great sports car. The Solstice is another great car if you want to stay small engine and not be bored to death driving a lot of bland boring offerings out there.

Comment 12:31 is quite right. High fuel costs ARE bringing to an end the large truck and SUV craze, and as far as I'm concerned it should have happened years ago. Naturally there will always be a niche market in industry for large trucks, but no private individual really has any need for an 8 mpg, 3-ton vehicle to haul the kids to soccer practice and pick up groceries. A 100 pound woman driving a Ford Excursion alone to Wal-Mart makes no sense whatsoever.

I can't really see the Tundra surviving the new market, as I know of no companies or industries that use them. The Tacoma is a good small truck, and it should do very well for families or individuals wanting a fairly economical smaller truck. Ford is coming out with a totally new mid-size, smaller-engined truck, which will probably be called the F-100. They are also coming out with a replacement for the rock-solid and venerable Ranger line. Both should do extremely well, especially in view of the Ranger and F-150's record of rugged reliability and quality.

In driving to my office yesterday I saw 3 nearly new full-size trucks with "For Sale" signs on the freeway. The high cost of gas is finally bringing a little common sense to the forefront in America's driving habits. It's about time.

11:53 Uhhh... I don't know if you were referring to my comment about our recent Ford headaches; the two that broke down, but the neither of them have anywhere close to 200,000 miles on them, of course, they're Fords.

Oh, and by the way, Nissan is much more reliable than any Ford. In fact, I don't think there's an automaker with worse overall reliability than Ford, possibly GM I suppose.

I always get a kick out of Consumer Reports' "used cars to avoid" section, and there's the majority of everything Ford has made in the last 10 years on the list, followed closely by GM's lineup of scrap cars. It's kind of funny to read all of the Ford fanatic comments about how they run forever, and all the miles they put on with no trouble, when in reality it's the complete opposite.

Ford owners seem to think that they're driving a good car or truck as long as it's still on the road, even after they've put an engine and two transmissions in it to get to 115,000 miles or whatever.

I guess if they ever buy a Toyota and get at least double that mileage with no problems whatsoever, they'll know better.

The Solstice really isn't a good car. I've heard a lot about its lack of fit and finish and quality control.

The Corvette is an epic car that can indeed get good mileage if driven correctly, but it's beyond most peoples' price range.

I'm selling my GM SUV and getting a '99 Buick Regal, which gets 30mpg+ on the highway, and is not expensive at all, while doing 0-60 in 6-7 seconds. Not to mention the engine is a bulletproof design that should last 200k+ miles.

All you have to do is a lot of research, and find out which car has the right balance of mpg, power and price.

I think you'll have to do a lot better on MPG than switching to a $50,000 Corvette; that might get 20MPG.

The fact is that the future of cars and trucks as we know it, will be that the 30MPG standard of yesterday is no longer the gold standard. People are going to start buying vehicles that get 35-40, and even 50MPG+ from now on.

As of now, there are very few cars or trucks that get that kind of economy. But all this will change with time. All automakers have new vehicles coming out that will accomplish this.

Once more, Toyota and Honda have a leg up over GM and Ford because they've been building hybrid vehicles in mass quantities for almost 10 years, while GM and Ford barely have anything. I suspect the outcome will be much the same, with the Big Three playing catch-up and doing a lot of copy-catting.

My wife has been involved in a study of financial efficiency and planning for the past few weeks. Car buying was discussed last week. I was not at all surprised to find that the financial experts teaching the classes regarded the absolute best buy for low cost of ownership and maintenance to be a 4-year-old Ford Taurus. If you look at the overall cost to own, nothing beats a new or used Ford, Chevy or Dodge.

Oh no, Toyota isn't terminating the Sequoia and Tundra! They are simply "cutting back production." Yeah, cutting back production to zero, and closing the plant!

So, when Toyota terminates models, it's a minor cutback in production due to high gas prices, but when Ford and GM do actually just scale back production, it's an "indication of poor sales because of lack of quality."

I love convertibles... people caught up in the mpg focus trap could perhaps own a Corvette rather than pay $300-400 more a month on less fuel efficient alternatives. I wonder what qualifications the Tacoma owner has on the 2008 Corvette V8.

I'd rather work a bit harder maybe take the train partially to work and own a great new American sportscar. If I owned a blah boring ugly tiny sedan, I think I'd have zero incentive to drive anymore. My insurance rate at 50 is not really a difference, my home is paid for, and I am not driving little crappy vehicles.

GM has been building MORE 30+ mpg vehicles for a decade than Toyota has. That is the primary reason their sales are not down as much as Toyota sales. They have more to offer, and 3 times the factory warranty.

And as for "little crappy vehicles", "little" does NOT mean "crappy". I'm a big guy and I'm much more comfortable in a good-handling smaller car that gets decent mileage than in a hard-to-park, gas guzzling aircraft carrier. Granted, no Japanese maker builds sporty small cars, but GM and Ford still do, and some of them get decent mileage.