2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

I think the discussion shifted from Tundra to other vehicles because the point had been well made many comments back that the Tundra is not now, and never has been any real competition to a full size domestic truck.

Those commenters who can find no means of defense for the Tundra, start grasping at straws in any way they can to defend the myth of "import superiority", and it doesn't work.

10:32 Well, those of you that don't know that 'import superiority' is a fact because of sloppy, disposable workmanship in domestic vehicles have no proof to dispute it, because there isn't any, and can only dismiss it as a 'myth'.

The FACTS remain that Japanese auto manufacturers have had far, far more vehicles rated as 'high quality, 'best buys', 'most reliable, and 'best used cars' than the domestics have had in the last 25 or so years. And these comments are from Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc, and every reputable car magazine on the market that I've ever read.

Oh, let me guess, ALL of those sources are misinformed and we should all believe YOU? Give me a break.

The only myths are 'Quality is Job 1' at Ford and 'Like a Rock' for GM. Import superiority is a fact simply because they build better vehicles. Plain and simple. Look at the last 2 decades of reviews and they back me up.

I agree if it's has no relevance to a current full size truck candidate, what's the point?

I am not going to rush out and buy a tiny car or a tiny pickup. And if it's a 10-15 year old vehicle, and I am about to buy a 2009, I just don't even see merit.

I do like getting out and driving first hand more than one exact style vehicle... look at the carrying capacity, towing etc. If you need a full size truck, check them out.

16:30 All I have to do is look at half the imports warranty and my empty wallet. Enough for me to immediately buy domestics. Are we back in the 80's again with these comments?

To my knowledge there have never been any frequency-of-repair records that give a clear indication that imports are now, or ever have been, in any way more reliable or durable than domestic vehicles. If such records exist, I'd love to see them. Modern domestics are very reliable, but so were those of the 80's and 90's (many of which are still in use).

I think people rush to look at small imports, and just ask mpg and maybe lock in their options. So let's look what you could have with a superior handling fun to drive vehicle. I will mention 2 new domestics.

The new Vette has 430 hp and with the 6 speed at 70 mph you cruise at 28 mpg with 400 miles on a tank. 0-60 in 4.3 sec, great handling and a blast to drive.

If you have under 25K, the Cobalt SS has greatest front wheel driving, great handling and drivability, and 0-60 in under 6 seconds and averaging on the highway 30 mpg. It amazes me people will rush out and buy imports that take 10.5 seconds to do 0-60, and if you feel they handle great and are fun to drive, that's an individual's opinion.

My whole comment is there are other options and great cars to drive, that perform and are good on gas. I am sold on domestics, meaning the present, and get tired of the same 10 year old plus what I use to have.

I do not see any Toyotas that are a nice combination of features to own. My friend with a new Prius does not care about cars, she bought mpg. Maybe there are others like me left that love driving, want the mpg but not at the sacrifice of everything else. 0-60 in 10.5 seconds is boring to me. And keeping a new vehicle a few years with that outlook is not happiness.

15:18 Well, beyond your realm of knowledge, those records do in fact exist that will illustrate frequency of repairs and so forth.

Toyota's and Honda's go to the garage much less than Fords or Chevy's. I've read it many times, and if you research this, you will find it to be true also, whether or not that is to your liking.

Not true. In fact not only do Toyotas and Hondas have more frequent service intervals, but they have more expensive repair costs as well.

Over the long run American cars are cheaper to operate and to own. They also offer a far more comfortable driving experience, better acceleration, and the same fuel economy on average as well.

Our family has owned at least a dozen or more Honda models, all purchased new, and now drive new GM's due to repetitive mechanical issues.

Our youngest driver (just got his license) in our household has a 9 year old low mileage Civic 5 speed sunroof coupe. He liked his mothers Honda's in spite of recurrent issues. I would not buy him a newer Honda. After 2000, unless they were lemons or all bad luck, I feel otherwise with your statements.

I'm all for what people like, and was still open minded to allow my child to drive a Honda.

As far as large trucks, I just saw the new Sierra has better MPG than Tundra, and a 100,000 mile warranty to address the repair concerns. I can hit 50,000 miles in 2 years, and quite frankly having no warranty is a major problem. I refuse to buy a new import with anything less. If my sons older Honda breaks, it's less of a hit. And I could have bought new.

Isn't it interesting that commenter 08:08 refers to these frequency of repair records, but doesn't bother to cite WHERE such records exist that he has "read".

Do a little more expanded reading if you have not seen issues on Hondas/Toyotas. Saying domestics have issues instead of addressing why lots of imports are seeing unheard of major issues is a cop out. And it's not isolated; ones both on here and consumeraffairs.com will enlighten. I know it's hard to believe in 2008 one would ever see low mileage engine failures, sludging, trans failures, air bag failures, braking for openers. My fuel expense has risen and fortunately not repairs since leaving imports.

Well its true, there are records that show which cars are the most reliable.

Here are various links to them:

http://www.baileycar.com/CReliability.html

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544&vv=600

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/02/28/038601.html

The 3rd links shows which auto maker produces the most reliable cars, which are as follows

1. Toyota

2. Honda

3. Scion

4. Acura

5. Lexus

Hmm, the top five are Japanese... not quite a shocker for me.

Well there is your proof... I don't know what more you guys could want me to show you that the Japanese are the top automakers, and although they said lexus slipped to fifth place, that's still much better than domestics. And again, although they said domestics have improved, they still are not in the top five.

Comment 16:39 is very much correct. The average American knows virtually NOTHING about cars except what they read in ads, and base their buying decisions not on knowledge or a desire for a sporty or exciting car, but rather on a need for a cheap, basic transportation appliance.

Boring imports sell mainly due to their often exaggerated mileage figures, and the long-perpetuated myth that they are more reliable. If they were, in fact, more reliable they would not be afraid to offer a decent warranty.

The data shown in the sites listed in comment 11:32 are NOT frequency of repair records (the ONLY real determination of a car's reliability). They are based on OWNER SURVEY's, which are FAR from reliable data.

As we have seen repeatedly on this site (and others), import owners are oblivious to the problems their cars have. I've read comments on the Camry site by people who have had engine and transmission failures, but would still buy a Toyota because "They're better". One had TWO transmission failures and part of the bumper fall off in the first 8000 miles, yet raved about what a "great" car it was!!

People who get taken in by ad hype and pay exorbitant amounts for cars that are junk are loath to admit they got taken.

I'm sure that the Tacoma owner, whose truck BROKE IN HALF due to frame failure would still list everything as "perfect" if he were filling out a survey form.

My friend who owns a Tundra that has been in the shop more times than I can count, still swears by Toyota and bought a 2007 Camry (which has also been in the shop repeatedly).

Please stick to FACTS, not OPINIONS. Only frequency of repair records can be used as a TRUE indicator of reliability, and I can guarantee you, Japanese companies are NOT ABOUT to release those.

To 11:32, Thanks. I didn't bother to list some of those sites or that information myself only because I've been reading and writing here long enough to know that the Ford/Chevy owners that comment here on a Toyota thread will insert their own opinions instead, and assert them as fact, just because they'd like what they believe to be true, when it isn't.

Like the person who claims that domestics have lower cost of ownership, and feels that his/her opinion that they are 'more comfortable' really means anything when we're talking about facts.

I realize this is pointless; as I have said it many times, but I still get a kick out of the attempts to prove otherwise: Japanese automakers have long been holding all the top spots, as rated by automotive experts, in regard to quality and reliability in automobiles. That's all there is to it. It IS a fact, and nothing a Ford owner can say will change that.

As usual, a domestic owner will no doubt mention one specific example of a Ford being rated higher than some Toyota, which does occasionally happen, but what doesn't change is that OVERALL, Japanese vehicles are rated higher and have been for many years. And these facts will be realized even by the diehard Ford owners when they trade in their Fords, knowing that if it were a Toyota or Honda of the same purchase price, that their Ford is worth less. That also is a fact, across the board.

Japanese automobiles hold their value more over the years, because they are better built and therefore more valuable than a domestic as they age. Period.