2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

I live out in the SF Bay Area, and let me tell you that Datsun 210 are EXTREMELY popular with the tuner boys these days. The reason is because you can shove a massive engine in the engine bay and have a very fast, small car.

The other thing to consider is that Japanese cars were not sold in large numbers in the US until the late 70's, early 80's, and even then, they only made up less than 20% of the market. A lot of those early Toyotas and Hondas from the 60's are much less common than the American brands.

Its also important to remember that cars become collectible simply because the people who buy them probably drove them when they were kids. Most who collect old cars are older to start with. So what do you think is going to happen now that my generation, who grew up driving Toyotas and Nissans going to collect? Not Mustangs and Cameros because we have no attachment to them. It'll be Celicas, 280Z's, and 210's. Time change. So do tastes in cars.

"18th Aug 2008, 20:54

A Caddy Northstar V-8 getting better mileage than a 4 cylinder car. If you get out and push it around, or maybe if you idle it consistently downhill for a tankful of gas; otherwise, forget it. Not even in the ballpark."

Oh? The 4-cylinder Dodge Caliber is rated 29 highway, as is the Toyota Solara, and the Chrysler 5.7 L is rated 27 highway, not to mention that Caddy Northstar that gets 27 highway. 27 certainly seems to be in the same ballpark as 29.

20:54 buying a 4 cylinder does not guarantee better mpg. Having V8's myself now and being meticulous keeping them tuned is better than someone that may not keep their 4 cylinder likewise or drives as a rocket racer light to light. I have seen the ones with the f*** pipe with blue smoke bad rings.

The new hybrid V8 Tahoe gets great mpg better than many Camry models. What's the difference if you have the same net result?

I had Honda 3.2 VTEC's that burned only 93 octane myself and wasn't any more thrifty. Start adding in $300 bulbs etc. and what defines thrift?

Actually a Northstar engine does get pretty good gas mileage. It gets about the same as my V6, why? Simple the engine has to do less work. And when it accelerates it purrs, not sound like a knocking lawnmower.

My mom had a 2.5 4cl Altima and it got about the same mileage as my car and probably less hwy. Every body talks about their Civic and Corrolla mpg, but they forget that these cars weigh about as much as a go-kart, and until recently had puny engines.

Case and point. My mom's Corolla weighs 2400lb and has an 105hp/100ft/lb engine, and my car weighs 3600lb and has an 205hp/230ft/lb engine. I average about 20mpg city and 31mpg hwy. I don't know what her city average is, but the EPA estimate is 23mpg and she gets about 35/36hwy driving. My car weighs 1200lb more than hers. If you look at the weight ratio vs fuel economy, the big V8s that get 28mpg or V6s that get 31mpg aren't really inefficient. I'll take the slightly less gas mileage knowing that I'm much safer if I get into an accident. Have you every seen one of these cars in an accident? It's not pretty.

The new V-8 Tahoe Hybrid will not get better gas mileage than any Camry, nor will it last as long because GM made it.

A Northstar caddy will not get 31 mpg either, no matter how you drive it.

The glaring irony here is that when that Cadillac is getting decent gas mileage, it's running on (guess how many), FOUR cylinders, which is all you need in any car unless it's a big, bloated, over-weight boat like a Cadillac is. I'd love to know what the gas mileage is when all 8 cylinders are firing to move that beast uphill. Probably about 12. Only when it becomes a four cylinder do you get decent mileage.

How much room do you need in a car?? It shouldn't have to feel like a couch. Stay home if you want that experience. Cars are transportation. Just think if even 75% of licensed drivers were all driving four cylinder cars. How many fewer stops at the gas station. How much less fuel we would use as a nation. And inevitably, oil companies would have no choice but to drop prices severely. Simple economics.

Some guy on here told me his v-8 was efficient because his drive to work is short. It's thinking like that that is one of the reasons that we have $4 a gallon gas.

And another thing; you are not safer in any instance in a larger vehicle, unless it's a bus or a tank. That's just a fact; SUV's being the worst of the bunch when it comes to getting hurt badly in a traffic accident. You are not safer in a Cadillac than you are in a Corolla, and you are much LESS safe in a Tahoe than a Corolla. Also a fact; despite some weird example you may have where somebody in a small car got killed and the guy in the SUV lived, that is the opposite of the norm.

SO... in closing: v-8's do NOT get better gas mileage than 4 cylinder cars, and larger cars and SUV's are not safer than smaller ones.

That's a good point about accidents. Smaller cars just crush like beer cans. A magazine I was reading featured a picture of a Ford explorer that had literally driven THROUGH a Honda Civic. The Civic was barely recognizable, while the Explorer didn't even have a broken windshield. Naturally everyone in the Explorer walked away unhurt.

As for 4-cylinder engines, I don't think they sound all that bad, actually. My 4-cylinder twin-cam Grand Am with slight modifications and a custom cold-air induction system actually sounds great, especially under full-throttle acceleration when you can really hear the air intake whooshing. I've owned my last V-8 because of fuel costs and concern for the environment. Both our new car and our SUV are 6's, and they perform extremely well while still getting good mileage. The SUV is faster and has more horsepower than any V-8 in its class. Of course every car we own is a domestic because of the poor reliability of imports.

Wow, that $10K 210 guy just won't give up. Now we are to believe that 210's are worth that much because "tuners" buy them and stick bigger engines into them. This apparently makes them collectible, whereas other rwd Japanese sedans from that era like the Corolla, Cressida and even Nissan's other "10" models (510, 610, 710, 810) are not? And that "collectors" will eschew Mustangs and Camaros in favor of 210's?

The argument that small cars are less safe than large ones is inaccurate. I've seen freakish accidents where small cars basically demolished huge SUVs and vice versa. A man rear-ended my mom's Honda Civic last year with his Ford F-150. It totally crumpled up the front end of his truck, but left hardly any damage on my mom's car. She just had to have the plastic bumper shell replaced.

SUV's also have a tendency to roll over and lose traction easier due to a higher center of gravity. Most truck-based SUVS also have a rail frame that you see on trucks, which do not give as much in accidents, hence you're much more likely to suffer neck and whiplash related injuries versus most modern smaller cars and car-based SUVs which use crumple zones.

20:46 "Of course, every vehicle we own is a domestic, because of the poor reliability of imports".

Even my new, cheap little Hyundai puts to shame GM and Ford vehicles I've owned for twice the price.

And my Toyota's were so far ahead of them that it truly saddens me to think people still buy from the Big 3.

17:23 are you referring to the Cadillacs from years ago with the 4-6-8 cylinders? Or are you referring to overdrive transmissions and gearing that enable the current V8 to basically run at near idle on the expressways?

The new Corvette with the 6 speed does not become a 4 cylinder. In addition any comment on why the rationale of driving a 4 cylinder to work 100 miles to work one way vs. the 5 minute commute of the V8 owner? Why does my coworkers need a big homes out in the suburbs with more fuel oil to heat their homes, gas to mow a couple acres? The answer that I hear is for their families, but they buy a small car to justify the commute.

I need to see if the combination highway into the city fuel consumption is any less than my own. I burn maybe 10 gallons a week to work... any comment on what anyone is getting with imports driving the longer distance doing any better?

Add in less repairs, less tire wear and the cost of petroleum to mfr the lesser life tires etc. due to the high commuter mileage. It starts getting less practical driving so far. Downsizing the car is only part of the solution.

Well, no matter how near or far you live from work, a V8 still gets less fuel economy than a 4 cylinder. You are technically still using more gas per vehicle.

Besides- not ALL people who live far out own small fuel efficient cars. Quite the opposite, because it seems like the vast majority of those I see making those commutes back and forth to their McMansions drive Suburbans and Escapades. Ironically, where I live near the city, the majority of the people here drive small compact cars.

21st Aug 2008, 09:32.

Actually the Corolla does have some collector models, they are just real hard to find in the US. The AE-86 chassis known in the US as the Corolla GT-S/SR5 coupe but the rest of the world knows it as the Sprinter Trueno. Which has the 4A-GEU 1.6 L I4, 16-valve DOHC, EFI, 130 hp and could easily have a turbo added. This car is quite popular in the rally circuits and has resulted in most of them being bought and taken to Europe.

For all of the I only buy American built cars. The AE-82 & 84 Corolla was also re-badged and sold as the Chevy Nova / Holden Nova and Geo Prism. That is right GM purchased cars from Toyota and slapped there name on them. Sounds like GM knows that Toyota makes better built cars than they do.

I doubt those that own businesses with the Mc Mansions locate 100 miles from work as typically they need to be close. It seems that 10 gallons = 10 gallons of fuel either a V8 or 4 cylinder. My reasoning is a family far out in the suburbs in not necessary a mansion buys the little car... yet burns 5 tanks of oil to my 3 in their home. But drive a 4 cylinder extremely far to justify the distance. I know as I work with quite a few. I am also seeing more on Motorcycles as well. Keep in mind most anyone can afford a car payment and that includes used Escalades... I prefer a more sedate vehicle but not anemic.

Of course most V-8's get far worse mileage than most 4's. And NO, all 4's are not dog-slow and unresponsive. No matter how far you drive, whether 5 miles or 500 miles, you'll burn less gas with most 4's.

Two and a half decades ago a Mustang GT boasted a whopping 170 horsepower. Now 4-cylinder Fusions have that much, and the new V-6 Mustangs put out more power than the last generation V-8's did.

You don't have to give up performance in driving a 4-cylinder car, especially if you stick with the more reliable domestic 4's that require less repairs and less maintenance and produce respectable horsepower.

Who cares if a 4-cylinder gets slightly better gas mileage on short trips to work? I drive an old V-8 to work, 10 miles, and get about 16 mpg in 1/3rd stop-and-go, 1/3rd flat interstate, and 1/3rd 12% uphill interstate. I put about 4,500 miles per year on the vehicle. Trading it on a new 4-cylinder would make no economic sense -- I would be better off making a donation to the Environmental Defense Fund rather than buying a new car in hopes of saving money by getting better gas mileage.

Even if a 4-cylinder gets 5 mpg better under those conditions, it just isn't worth it to trade to save 44 gallons of gas per year. Maybe that will change when gasoline reaches $6/gallon, or if I have to drive farther to work. Until then, I'll drive the car I have (and enjoy), and when it's time to park it or sell it or it gets hit by a semi, then maybe it will be time to look for a cheap commuter like a Focus, or something fun like a Caliber SRT4.

What I won't do is jump on the bandwagon that says everybody has to buy a Corolla just because gas prices have gone up a buck.