2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

21:26 I feel the complete opposite. When there was low production and true imports, ours were better at the time. But that was over 10 years ago. I have had no problems with domestics the past 5 years since we switched. I am basing that on 2-3 vehicles purchased new and some imports and domestics sharing our garage. We are not commenting om anything other than new Japanese/Domestic vehicles that we tracked new since inception. Not someone else's used vehicles; that is not a clear indicator of proper maintenance.

"28th Aug 2008, 15:44.

Funny experience, today I saw a Toyota truck pulling a Dodge truck. The Toyota was much smaller than the Dodge truck. I don't know if it was an older Toyota Tundra or what.

Cosmetically both looked terrible. But I guess Toyota trucks aren't as crappy as people make them. I do think dodges are crap though."

Well, don't base your opinion on just one observation. My father bought a Toyota motorhome with only 55,000 miles on it because of the supposed "Toyota reliability" of the 22R engine. I had to use my old '85 Dodge Ram to pull him home a good dozen times because the Toyota would die five miles down the road. The Dodge easily pulled the much larger Toyota motorhome, and was a sight to behold -- the old Dodge pulling the dead dog of a Toyota down the road.

You may have reason to think Dodges were junk in the 1990's, but they were the best trucks in the 1970's and 1980's. The Ram 2500 and 3500 series are still great for real, heavy duty work because they are used in the mines as utility vehicles, not just hauling an arbor vitae bush back from Lowe's. I would agree that the light truck Dakota and Durango are too fluffy for actual off-road use.

How many people actually off road on here? I usually take my full size truck to haul, tow and maybe take the kids to the park with our dog. Actually I could take my car there as well.

I bought my truck specifically for its bed and the Class III hitch. I wonder how many Toyota tow bed/flat trucks are on the interstates? I have AAA I will have to check the nameplate on the tow vehicle if that occurs. Somehow I doubt it says Toyota.

I love the "towing" stories. It reminded me of an incident back in '95. I was on a camping trip with a group of friends and one of the guy's imports broke down. He lived about 50 miles away, but it was almost all interstate and I offered to tow him home with my 4-cylinder Ford Ranger. I was in a bit of a hurry, so we ran 80mph in the fast lane all the way. My little Ranger never broke a sweat. He bought a new F-150 the next month.

07:42,

While I agree with some of your statements in regards to the " World market", your assessment is a bit simplified. It isn't necessarily the fault of the US government, but rather the fault of a number of things. For starters, the states that contained the majority of US manufacturing such as Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and so on are heavily unionized. The unions in time effectively handicapped those industries from competing on a global scale. Some say that what the unions did and do was good. I tend to agree with them. But the cold reality is that in many other countries, such unions don't exist. Without protection, workers in other countries are expendable and cheap to replace. Not so in the US, so as a result, we are not as financially competitive.

Additionally, states like MI have incredibly high taxes on their businesses and industry. I live in TN and we seem to get a new car plant every few years. The reason is for one, unions are not as strong down here. Secondly, TN actually gives tax incentives to those companies - whether they're foreign or domestic, to move in. So in that respect, this is why I think that America's inability to compete is more along the lines of being on a state by state level. Certain states offer better opportunities for manufactures, and as it is now, most of our manufacturing exists in states that are not as friendly to business. So if you want to improve our chances on a global market... move those companies to states that offer better business options. Either that or tell those running states like MI to wake up and change things for the better.

I don't really understand how paying several thousand dollars more for a car built by a foreign company (even if it's made in the U.S.) indicates that foreign companies are MORE competitive. A comparable domestic usually costs considerably LESS than a car made by a foreign company, not more, so I fail to see where our "greedy unions" are making us "less competitive". If I can buy a world-class, top rated and more reliable Ford Fusion for 7 grand less than an Accord, how have American workers made that LESS competitive?

10:27.

What you are saying is true, but industry unfriendly/oppressive state regulations only add to the problems mentioned in 7:42. Unfortunately, relocating a manufacturing plant to another more industry friendly state may in many cases be cost prohibitive. Moreover, even with all state sponsored incentives in place, you still cannot do any better than heavily discounted foreign labor and tax free importation into the US. The only thing that comes close is Japanese auto companies being given the land for their plants for free (e.g., the Honda plant in Marysville OH) and then not having to pay any subsequent taxes on them. That to the best of my knowledge was never a benefit extended to any US company.

"I don't really understand how paying several thousand dollars more for a car built by a foreign company (even if it's made in the U.S.) indicates that foreign companies are MORE competitive."

I recall looking at Chevy Colorados back a few years ago. An American truck that cost around 20k out the door. That compared to the equivalent Toyota Tacoma which cost 16k out the door at the time. Just because something might be "foreign" doesn't automatically mean it is cheaper. In most cases, domestically produced import brands are price competitive with domestically produced domestics. In fact, there are getting to be quite a few imported domestic cars (the new Saturn Astra for example) that will be a competitive small car for GM... even though it is made in Germany.

That is true the Saturn Astra is made in Germany. Therefore, I cannot get excited about them. Someone here however said that Saturn might be tooling up to make the US models here in the US. I hope that is true, as they would warrant a look if that were the case.

I will only buy a vehicle if it is made by a US manufacturer in the US.

I looked at the 2006 Colorado before buying a 2006 Ranger. It was nowhere near $20,000 unless equipped with every conceivable option.

You can also buy a new true full size GM Silverado (such as the plain work truck series) even if you just get A/C, automatic and wind up windows with the nice V6. I upgraded steel rims to new factory alloy wheels, tires, aftermarket sound system (took an hour to have put in used stock existing speakers) even carefully heat gunned all the stock decals off and put the upgraded GM stock exterior factory side tailgate trim all from bidding ebay as budget allows. Truck rides nice, is full size, V6 for mileage and better warranty. Why buy the small stuff for the same price?

I am in total agreement with 06:49. I will only buy American cars made in this country by American workers. I passed up a couple of made-outside-the-U.S. domestics before my last purchase. All three of our cars are domestics assembled in the U.S. and containing over 85% domestic-made parts. I might also add that not one of them has ever had any problems of any kind.

You'd be hard-pressed to find hardly any vehicle made in the US with US parts. Ain't happening. GM imports a ton of parts from Mexico, Brazil, Canada, and Germany. A good bit of the engines GM imports these days comes from China.

Somehow, I fail to see what the problem is of say - buying a car made with US labor - regardless of the brand or parts source - in a US plant. The last two Toyotas I have bought came from Kentucky and California. There are US workers in those plants making good money and supporting their families. If you simply refuse to buy because they don't happen to be gluing a Toyota badge to the front of a piece of stamped steel stamped at that very plant, then guess what? You're not supporting US workers.

There is a lot of people who need to realize that we're in a global economy. The US is no longer a manufacturing specific country. You can support US workers in more ways than just looking to see what something is made out of.

23:28.

Amen Brother!!

I even took that a step further; I stopped buying new imports when they started having more and more major mechanical problems.

I never thought that the switch would occur... it started back in frugal college days driving Corollas and staying import afterward. Now it's more wisdom looking beyond just fuel costs and factoring in repairs during total ownership costs.

It's been a wiser move in our family and less repair headaches. Having a supposedly well maintained vehicle with a full tank, sitting alongside the road on the way to work, broken down and being towed yet again, dispels the import myth.