2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

I'd drive a Yugo before a Ford.

Oh, and by the way, I just looked up recent Motor Trend reviews for 07, 08, and the new '09 Camry. (The Camry was MT's car of the year in '07, '08, and easily deserves to be in '09 as well). It said, roughly quoted, that Toyota has delivered another fantastic car, it's still in the top selling spot in the United States, (has been for 11 consecutive years), followed only by the Honda Accord, and they even made a point of saying that more Camry's were sold last year than ALL Dodge cars COMBINED. I'd say that's 'setting the industry standard'. Now what were you guys saying about Ford's and Chevy's??

As mentioned above, Dodge really isn't even worth mentioning anymore, I shouldn't have wasted the words on them. I know Toyota makes the best cars on the road, and so does most everyone else, which is why we buy more of them than any other car in the country.

Let's see, a manufacturer that people are currently flocking to over MPG is not totally indicative of a strictly quality comment. If there's a waiting list for a Prius... is it the MPG factor or is it only because individuals that care only about quality and absolutely no need for high MPG?

I see increased sales as about high gas pricing being the true factor at the moment. Everything cost more home expenses, electricity, heating etc. and it's tiring hearing about it's quality only that is why people buy a vehicle like a Prius.

I am unimpressed and would rather drive a nicer vehicle, nicer ride and warranty... I bought new high end Japanese imports and the mechanical durability was lousy. I am not alone as many on consumeraffairs.com have seen the light as well.

If you want to wait in line for a 50 mpg Hybrid go for it... but I would keep a few grand set aside for issues. My opinion is pay a little more, get a nicer vehicle up front, and not 100% over the gas pump.

00:28 That's great. Did you also look up full size trucks? Anyone buying a full size truck like the topic of this review may be spending over $30K for a well equipped model. I did a lot of research and testing as well. When you are shopping for a full size, the criteria is most likely capability, load towing capability, room, handling, comfort and warranty. Since the Tundra did not have all the elements present in this price level, I bought a better GM full size.

What relevance small cars have on here baffles the imagination. If you are shopping for a larger truck and are spending more for fuel... it's likely not the same as a Camry shopper.

I have never bought a full size truck ever with a car viewpoint... maybe if it was 1 bag of mulch and a small pickup/car trunk analogy, maybe that has merit for you. As far as larger truck sales, with as great as Toyota is supposed to be... why are Tundra sales down? Should be leading the pack over the great car conclusion you have.

Maybe it's less about quality and what manufacturer has the most small fuel oriented vehicles, hybrids and otherwise, to conclude that they sell in the current depressed economy. Anyway, full size truck owners that need one are not rushing out to buy less function, less capability and certainly a far less warranty as I see it. I have had zero issues with my last 2 new domestic full size trucks.

"Oh, and by the way, I just looked up recent Motor Trend reviews for 07, 08, and the new '09 Camry (The Camry was MT's car of the year in '07, '08, and easily deserves to be in '09"

The Camry WAS Motor Trend's Car of the Year in 2007 due to the introduction of a V-6 that finally gave it performance comparable to domestics V-6's. However, in 2008 a domestic (The Cadillac CTS) was Car of the Year, NOT Camry. This may have been due to the numerous problems that plagued the new V-6 Camrys (and Tundras), causing Consumer Reports to drop them from their list of "recommended" vehicles.

Over half of Ford's entire line-up now carries a "recommended" listing. GM is taking on the world (and coming out on top) with the CTS, Pontiac G8 (most powerful sports sedan on the planet for under $30,000), and the Ferrari-eating Corvette. Since entering the international arena, the Corvette has boasted a 300% increase in sales outside the U.S. in the past 7 years.

The Tundra has proven to be anything but reliable, has a very poor warranty (the second worst in the auto industry) and not shown any indication of having solved the problems plaguing it since its introduction.

To forego the world's best selling truck for 3 decades (the F-150) and the award-winning Silverado for one of these takes a bit of illogical reasoning.

23:35 Wow. Over HALF of Ford cars carry a 'recommended' rating. I am not impressed. Take a look at the lineup of Toyota cars each year for the last ten, and see how many were recommended. Generally, every single one of them. They've only slipped up a few times. Ford considers itself lucky to have greater than half of what it makes on that list... not impressed. (And of course, it used to be much worse for them).

The ironic thing about all of this, is that from what I still see, the majority of the folks out there who buy full size trucks are stereotypically what I'd call "good ole' boys" who regardless of whatever other choices exist out there will never-ever consider anything that doesn't have an American nameplate on it.

So in other words, having an argument about whether foreign cars are good or bad seems rather pointless. People who drive Toyotas are never going to convince someone who has patriotic favoritism branded into their brains that anything other than Ford or Chevy will do, even if the thing falls apart around them.

In any case, buying a full size truck, regardless of the brand or whether its " foreign" or "domestic" is financially foolhardy since we are in fact in a recession and gas prices are only going to inflate themselves even more.

I could care less if you drive a Ford or Chevy. Let's see your wallet after owning it for a few years which after then, I assume you're likely going to be selling it and quietly buy a smaller, more efficient car or truck.

15:02 care to compare the Tundra the subject of this review?

Sorry I was absolutely unimpressed when I could have a new GM or Ford full size truck. Do you own a Tundra and why did you buy it?

The V-8 Tundra costs much more and gets far worse gas mileage than a full-size GMC, so I think those "quietly trading for something smaller and more fuel efficient" in a few years will most likely be Tundra owners who are tired of 12 miles per gallon and constant repairs. As for resale, the best large SUV on the market for resale is the Chevy Suburban. The Tundra-based Sequoia is one of the worst.

As for domestic truck owners being "good old boys", I prefer to think of them as "SMART old boys". My family's company has used 100% domestic trucks for decades because they are extremely solid and reliable. 300,000 miles is not uncommon for any of the Chevy, Dodge or Ford trucks. We still have a 1983 Chevy truck that was bought new in '83 still in service, and a contractor friend is still using an F-150 he bought new in '85.

Another friend is still driving a Dodge Ram that was bought in '85. All still run flawlessly.

I don't think you'll ever see a 25-year-old Tundra still in daily use. Not even the frames are rugged enough for that kind of reliability over time.

Let me try again, to 9/21/08 00:28.

Dodge is not worth mentioning any more huh? The 2009 Ram 1500 will be the Motor Trend truck of the year.

12:04 just because you feel you have a foreign badge on a vehicle is no guarantee of reliability or lower cost of ownership. The "good ole boy" comment is not necessary the case. I have owned a Mercedes, Acuras and a domestic full size loaded V8 pickup at the same time and parked in the same garage. I tow a large boat and there is no import truck available with the same capability. If I am being labeled as such, would that also pertain when I was out in my convertible import the same afternoon?

Some people have some specific application needs that a Tacoma, Tundra is not able to accomplish (at least safely) To buy a undersized import truck would perhaps sideskirt your incorrect labeling definition, but be foolhardy to jeopardize others with my towing requirements.

I now own domestics by the way and my repair costs have gone down since.

First of all, The 2008 GMC Sierra gets 13-18MPG. The 2008 Tundra? 13-18MPG. So the costs are exactly the same. Even if you drive one of the Chevy Yukon hybrids, which cost well over $50,000, the best you're going to get is around 20-22MPG, which considering the cost of gas might as well be 5MPG. Frankly, I'm not impressed with anything that gets anything under 30MPG, and even at that rating, the cost of fuel is significant.

I keep reading all these comments about how: " well... I owned an Acura, a Toyota, and a Honda, and boy- they all had problems and now I have " domestics" and none have any problems."

I can tell you for fact that my family has owned nothing but Toyotas and two Fords for the past 30 years. Out of all of those Toyotas, only one problem was had with a 4runner with a faulty wheel bearing. But the Fords were both sold within a few years after acquiring them because they BOTH has serious mechanical failures at rather low miles. We had a 1995 Ford F-150. Second gear went out at 65,000 miles. The other Ford, a 96 Ranger also had transmission problems along with issues with the rear brakes, the steering column actually coming loose, and countless electrical gremlins.

The fact is that pretty much anyone I know who owns either a Honda or a Toyota seldom if ever has any problems with them period. Secondly, I do have a classic American car and frequently go to the junk yard looking for parts. Guess whats the most common cars I see in those yards? Fords and Chevys. We're talking cars and trucks that aren't all that old with blown head gaskets and self-destructed transmissions.

There's one part of the yard I call "Ford Taurus row", because there are usually 15-20 of them sitting there with their hoods open with a white crusty sludge spewed all over the engine compartment - the tell-tale sign that the head gasket blew. Whats more, most of these have fairly low miles.

It's rare that I see US brand cars in the yard that have over 100,000 miles on them. The Japanese car section though is the smallest section. Most of the cars there are extremely old and with huge amounts of miles on the speedometers, as in 200,300, and even 500,000 miles. These cars tend to get junked once they've completely worn themselves out versus the countless American cars that had premature deaths.

Lastly, I see a LOT of 25 and 30 year old Toyota trucks on the road out here in California. Some of these are being used to haul huge stacks of pallets, engine parts, and debris from the nearby shipping yards. This was back when Toyota made nothing but tiny little trucks with no frills at all. It's just as likely that the trucks they make today will have the same if not longer survivability. My almost 14 year old Tacoma still looks brand-spanking new with zero problems. I see no reason why it, or the new Tundra will have any problem staying on the road for decades.

"The ironic thing about all of this, is that from what I still see, the majority of the folks out there who buy full size trucks are stereotypically what I'd call "good ole' boys" who regardless of whatever other choices exist out there will never-ever consider anything that doesn't have an American nameplate on it."

Wow. Way to stereotype domestic full size truck buyers, who's vehicles sell orders of magnitude more than any foreign so-called competition. Do we simple minded folks bitterly cling to our guns and religion while we are not playing dueling banjos on our front porches too?

I could make the same characterization about import buyers that you made about domestic buyers - that everyone who buys an import thinks America and its products stink, and would not even look at, much less consider any evidence to the contrary. But, I happen to not believe in stereotyping entire groups of people.

What might I ask by the way is wrong with being patriotic in one's buying decisions anyway?

Yes- I am an "import" owner. But I am also patriotic. That means as an American, I have free choice to make a decision regarding the product I buy.

My family owned lots of Fords and GM products over the years. My Uncle was a well respected Ford dealer who gave us deals on cars and trucks. But time and again, these cars and trucks gave us persistent problems, which for a family like mine - a middle class family with a sometimes unemployed Dad, it was prohibitively expensive. This was back in the 80's. Then Dad got the company car - a boring 85' Camry. The thing ran forever. We never had any problems. To us, having a car last 150-200,000 miles without a hitch was amazing. It saved us a lot of money and headache. My story is similar to a lot of Americans who got burned by inferior products.

To be fair, I think all US branded companies have made enormous improvements in their products. GM is probably one of my favorite companies. They have some great management there. Like Bob Lutz and his Chevy Volt program along with the new Malibu, which is perhaps one of the best family sedans out there. I'd be willing to give that car a try.

Then again, I rented a Pontiac two months ago on a trip. The interior was already showing severe wear. The engine made some funny sounds, like the belts were all loose and squealing.

I've also rented a Cobalt. I was equally unimpressed. Typical cookie-cutter plastic cheapness I remember back in the day in the 90's when the driving class car in high school was a 93' Corsica with a cheap plastic interior.

So the problem is that GM and Ford have to convince me that they actually make a good product. I know people with tons of miles on their Chevys. I also know an equal proportion where their Chevys dies premature deaths. Am I willing to bet on a hit and miss product? Well, I'm not made out of money, so no - I'm not.

That's the problem. Perception and actual quality. Until they make good on consistent quality, they are going to continue to have sales problems. It's as simple as that.

Great point 13:31. With our country in dire financial straits, buying from American companies makes a lot of sense, even if the products WEREN'T better (which they are).

I guess I can just sit on my front porch polishin' my gun, readin' my Bible and laughing myself silly as I watch my neighbor's new Camry hauled off to the shop on a flatbed for the third time in a month. He'll probably ask me to drive him down in my Ford to pick it up in a few days.