2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

Well, I usually don't factor patriotism into my vehicle purchases. Seems a little pointless. I pay my taxes and contribute to the economy.

When I buy a vehicle, I look at their past examples, which is why I avoid Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. There are imports I'd stay clear of too, but Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and now Hyundai make better cars than the 'domestics' do. And Toyota makes better trucks.

I had many new Taurus and later Crown Vics as company cars and they were great. Started and stopped many times daily usually 200 miles minimum daily. I had a 4 state territory in the Northeast and experienced many bad winters. I never had a head gasket issue and kept them all 100,000 miles and got another.

Maybe you should come to south Philadelphia on junkyard row. There are acres of imports in the junkyards. One after another. I was there looking for a replacement round pedestal table for my Conversion Van and am certain you would have no problem whatsover finding row upon row of junked Toyota vehicles to wear out some major shoe leather walking past them all.

I have also found some vehicles can be super reliable a given year, and then just satisfactory 2 years later.

Having a 14 year old import is no guarantee that you would have less problems buying a 2009 by the way. My dad who keeps cars a long time had a 1974 Volkswagen bug he should have kept forever; much better reliability than the new ones, regardless of how expensive they became.

As stated earlier, I think patriotism has more to do with many of those who claim that their GM and Ford products are "better" than Toyotas and Hondas.

You can tell stories about an Uncle who owned a Chevette that ran for 300,000 miles or a 85' Taurus that never had a problem and ran 500,000 miles as proof. But the real proof is that Honda and Toyota didn't gain the reputation for reliability on pure gossip alone. They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago, and since then earned their reputation fair and square, through quality engineering, and intelligent product development. Those are the facts.

You cannot deny that Honda and Toyota build excellent products, and I also know that despite what you admit, also realize that they also build BETTER products than any of the big three.

Maybe Honda and Toyota make good products. Who knows? Makes no difference to me.

What I do know is that my 2002 Ford with 98,500 miles runs and drives just as well today as when it was new, and has never needed any repair.

I have done routine filter and fluid changes, and changed two turn signal bulbs. With reliability like that, why would I look elsewhere? Seriously, why?

I also know that my Ford was about $7,000 less than the comparable year and mileage Honda, Nissan, or Toyota models. Again, why would I pay $7,000 more for something that has no better reliability?

You may talk about "quality" but that's subjective. I'm happy with my Ford, saved 7 grand, and have never had the slightest problem with it. Can you seriously tell me that I'm missing out on something by not driving Japanese? No, you can't.

"They were a totally new, unproven car companies when they were introduced to the US market 30+ years ago..."

Yes, and I think the people who sing praises about them do so because they always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, regarding imported products.

Moreover, I do deny that they are quality products, both from personal experience and the massive amount of complaints being lodged against them. Take a look at Consumer Affairs as an example:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestic vehicles have ever had an engine fail before 50,000, or ever failed period. That is not the case with Toyota.

A lot has been made of the fact that some GM dealerships are going out of business. Last week one of our largest ones folded. Then, this morning, the paper carried an article about one of our largest TOYOTA dealerships going out of business. This is pretty clear evidence that it is purely reasons of economics rather than any falsely perceived ideas of higher quality on the part of Toyota.

Nor can it be blamed on gas-guzzling vehicles, as Toyota only makes a handful (Sequoia, Tundra, and Land Cruiser). The economic woes we are facing will ultimately affect EVERYONE doing business here. Frankly, I hope to see MORE Toyota dealers close, as American companies need money more than Japan does.

I heartily agree with commenter 11:10. People who have never driven anything but imports refuse to acknowledge the high build quality, reliability and often superior handling of domestics.

I just read a review of a new Ford by a person who had never owned a domestic. He was raving about what an incredible car it is. I'm not at all surprised. The new Malibu, Fusion, Mustang, G8, Charger, Challenger, Camaro, CTS, Corvette, etc. are some of the finest cars on the planet.

As for trucks, Ford continues to hold the top spot with the best selling truck for 3 DECADES. GM and Dodge are also popular with businesses (including ours) that need reliable, heavy-duty trucks and vans. I doubt you'll see more than a handful of Tundras being used by businesses due to outrageous purchase prices and poor reliability.

Anyone that thinks that domestic cars and trucks are as good a quality as the products that Toyota or Honda makes needs to spend some time under the hoods of both. I have owned both domestic and Japanese brand vehicles. My Brother had a Ford Ranger. I have a Tacoma of the same vintage. Simply put, the overall fit, finish, machining, and construction of the Tacoma is superior in every way. Additionally, less care was made with the mechanical layout of the Ranger in regards to servicing it. For example, my Tacoma has a 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder 3rz-FE engine. His engine was a 2.3 liter OHC engine.

For starters, the engine in the Ranger was derived from an original ancient design dating back to 1974. It was used in the Pinto and over the years gradually updated. But besides the modern additions was an extremely old-fashioned and difficult to work on engine. Most of the bolts were painted black and over time corroded, making it impossible to disassemble. The wires, cables, and hoses were a mess. It made it impossible to get at components. It had 8 spark plugs located in odd places. One was in a recessed area that collected water, and subsequently froze the plug in the block. The engine used coolant and oil like mad. He had to fill up both around once a month. Lastly, the truck was SLOW, as in you would almost get clobbered in a freeway merge.

On the other hand, my Tacoma's engine was developed new for the Tacoma, and was far more modern. All bolts are aluminum, yellow anodized, or galvanized steel. None of them corrode, thus its easier to disassemble. The hoses, wiring, and cables are very neat, out of the way of the components, and lastly, there's less of them to deal with. The plugs are all on top, in a row, and easy to get to. If any parts are serviced, the casting and machining quality of the components are superior in every way over what my brother's truck was. The parts out of my Tacoma make the Ford's look crude. Lastly, this truck is FAST, peppy, and responsive. I've beat dudes in sports cars in this thing. It also gets amazing fuel economy.

The thing is that the engine was designed to be serviced very easily, with lots of consideration given to how easy things are to get at. I replaced the starter on mine 3 years ago. Took me 5 minutes and can be done standing up and reaching down through a space between the firewall and engine. Again - someone thought about how to make that procedure. The Ford's engine seemed to have been shoved in there without a thought in regards to service.

Working on my truck versus my Brother's is totally different. My Brother was a pain in the rear. Mine is almost a pleasure. What's more, I still have mine. His bit the dust years ago. Now I'm not one of those guys that claims that everything that Detroit makes is bad. But I have yet to see the level of care and quality manufacturing out of any of the big three yet. Until I do, I think I'd rather stick with what I know is a better crafted product.

The back and forth will never end. Everybody has their preference.

Look, the fact is, Toyota and Honda build better vehicles than the big 3 do. That's all there is to it. They didn't gain the reputation for being top of the line by building disposable, cheaply made cars and trucks like Ford and GM always have. And those imports DO have the reputation for high quality, whether or not you Ford/GM people believe it. It's there for good reason

And people did not come up with jokes like F.O.R.D. (F.ound O. n R.oad D.ead) for no reason either. Citing countless examples of high mileage Fords will prove nothing.

Why do you guys think it is that every Ford and Chevy car commercial advertise their cars as a 'competitor to the Accord and Camry'? It's because they are in the top spot, due to being the best cars on the road, and therefore the top sellers. It's simply a case of people refusing to believe what is true. There is no Ford or Chevy vehicle that can compare to the kind of consistent reliability of an old Tercel, Civic, or Corolla for example. It just ain't true.

I'm sure this will be followed by some story about a Corolla blowing up at 30,000 miles and an Escort going for 300,000. No one cares. I don't at least, and neither do the majority of people who go out and buy cars, because they have made the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry the best selling cars in the U.S. for over a decade.

"Citing countless examples of high mileage Fords will prove nothing."

Nor will going on and on about a 17-year-old Tacoma when you haven't driven a domestic since 1992.

21:48 and yet another "opinion" cover the badge and buy. I had both imports and domestics. I now drive new GM full sizes. What good is cars and small pickups comments on a full size review?

I did not like Tundra after driving one, and bought more capability, features, room, better ride, towing, load carrying... spend more for gas, it better have benefits.

As both a car lover and avid reader, I pretty much stay up on what is going on in the auto industry.

Today USA Today carried a story headlined "Toyota resorts to 0% financing to draw in buyers". The story said Toyota's sales have plummeted 32.3% this year. That pretty much mirrors domestic sales losses.

In our area we just had both a large Chevy dealership and a large Toyota dealership go belly up. The current economy is to blame, and the sales declines have absolutely nothing to do with build quality or reliability. Domestic makers were caught by the $4 a gallon gasoline and simply didn't have enough fuel efficient cars to meet demand.

In our area the Tundra, Sequoia and Land Cruiser are just gathering dust on dealer's lots too, as are the gas hog domestics.

Although several of my car-savvy friend's have commented on Toyota's drop in build quality, I think all the current drops in car sales are purely economically driven.

20:12 I drive domestics every day at work, but decided never to buy another one after my last Dodge, which I owned just into 2000. I drive them all the time, I just wised up enough to know never to buy another one.

Our Ford vans at work for example. Now, if I were a Ford owner, I'd no doubt be bragging about the 198,000 miles on the van. And then I'd fail to mention that this is the van's second engine and third transmission. That's the kind of stuff Ford and Chevy owners fail to mention because it's embarrassing.

Anyone I ever knew who kept a Toyota long enough before trading for a new one had that kind of mileage, plus another 100,000 or so on the original drivetrain. I don't lie about what I have and haven't repaired when it comes to vehicles. I've owned three Toyota's; total ownership of all three adds up to around 11 years, and I spent exactly $98 in repairs on all 3 combined. That's a starter in the last one at around 100,000 miles, the other two were perfect.

I've owned 4 domestics, for a combined timeframe of around 15 years. If I were to sit here all night, and list things that I had to repair, I probably still wouldn't remember all of it. Thousands of dollars.

Which is why I laugh when someone tries to tell me domestics are even close to comparable to Toyota's. Not even close.

I laugh reading about vans, small pickups like Tacomas on a full size truck review. What is hard to fathom is any relevance.

I disagree that Toyota has better full size pickups that even begin to have the capability, towing, load carrying that is why I am not driving the teeny trucks as they cannot handle most of the applications. Reminds me of trying to bring a knife to a gunfight... too small and underpowered.

Toyota may make a decent small truck as the other commenter claims... but I wholeheartedly disagree that they have anywhere near the breadth of line that domestics have. Take into account issues, less warranty and load, carrying capabilities the domestics are far superior. If it's not even available in a limited lineup, how anyone can state superiority is beyond the imagination.

I would suggest drive some new full sizes instead of lamenting over vehicles owned long ago. At least comment on late model full sizes with applicable comments.

I work in the home construction industry, as well as having family that owns two companies that use vans. The vans used are Ford, Dodge and GM (both Chevy and GMC) full size vans. There are also a fleet of Ford Ranger service trucks for the lighter hauling and transporting equipment. I don't know of ANY of these vehicles requiring a new motor or transmission in their normal period of use, which ranges up to 300,000 miles except for one Dodge that was accidentally rear ended by a semi while parked. The impact tore out the park gear and due to other damage it was written off as a business loss.

We would NEVER go to the expense of engine or transmission replacement on any service van or truck, nor would most businesses. It is cheaper just to write the vehicle off on taxes as a loss. I don't know of any companies that have ever replaced an engine or transmission in a service vehicle. It wouldn't make a great deal of sense. Buying a new vehicle allows the company to start depreciation deductions over again on the new vehicle.

We don't "fail to mention" engine or transmission replacements on our domestic service vehicles for the simple reason that there are none TO mention. Check out the Ford Ranger in the October '07 Consumer Reports. 488,000 miles with no engine or transmission problems. That is only about 200,000 miles more than what is typical of well cared for domestic vehicles.