2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

17:05 Wow. ONE Ford Ranger in the world that got the kind of mileage that you can find in THOUSANDS of old Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. Not impressed.

OK Ford and Chevy fans; read this:

J.D. Power's 2009 "Most Dependable Vehicles" study, based on number of problems per hundred vehicles experienced by original owners of 3 year old vehicles:

Opening line - "Can anyone dethrone Lexus?"... after Lexus (a Toyota of course) won for the 14th straight year.

And relevant to this thread: BEST LARGE PICKUP: TOYOTA TUNDRA. Obviously. Period.

There are 19 other categories of vehicles. Toyota won ELEVEN OF THEM. Honda won two. Hyundai won one. That makes 14. The 'Big 3' what a laugh... won only FIVE. Five versus 14. As an import owner, I'm happy with that. The Toyota Tundra is the best large pickup available. Period.

"There are 19 other categories of vehicles. Toyota won ELEVEN OF THEM. Honda won two. Hyundai won one. That makes 14. The 'Big 3' what a laugh... won only FIVE. Five versus 14. As an import owner, I'm happy with that. The Toyota Tundra is the best large pickup available. Period."

I can accept that you would be happy with that, if you want to let automotive editors do your thinking for you. If that is the case, you might want to reconsider your assertion that the Tundra is the best pickup available. Consumer reports rated its reliability at much worse than average.

I think it is safe to say that by any objective account, Consumer Reports has hardly been an enemy, but rather a devoted propaganda machine for Toyota in the past, so this rating is thus all the more significant. Even Consumer Reports cannot cover for the garbage Toyota is producing anymore.

As far as Rangers achieving in excess of 400,000 miles, my brother drives one with well over 400,000 miles on the original engine and transmission to work every day. Your statement about Rangers not providing long term durability is just a notion; my brother's experience with his Ranger and that of the one (among many prospective examples) documented in Consumer Reports are facts. You have to distinguish those from what you hear on the news or read in magazines.

One of the previous commentators had it right. The decline in sales is universal. The local near us Toyota dealership is doing very badly. The local Chevy dealer - a dealership that has been around for 60 years closed last week. The Chrysler dealership went 6 months ago.

Basically, the US economy is in DIRE condition. GM was heavily involved with credit related business such as GMAC, which was involved in real estate transactions. The local Chevy dealership closed as a result of GM's requirement of all current dealers to carry at least $200,000 of new inventory, which they can't because they're small. Hence the small dealer is getting pummeled.

Interesting times we live in. The argument over whether you own a car from Japan or the US is going to become less important as we deal with simply staying afloat.

Best large pickup? Find me a 3/4 or 1 Ton Diesel. Or our we recommending that I destroy a smaller truck towing my boat?

You cannot make 1 or 2 models fit all... there's far too many applications. And some of us are successful enough to afford larger toys and not compromise safety and capability issues.

"17:05 Wow. ONE Ford Ranger in the world that got the kind of mileage that you can find in THOUSANDS of old Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. Not impressed"

The Honda Civic featured in the very same (Oct. '07) article made less than HALF of the miles the Ranger made with no problems. Please state precise examples of ONE Toyota or Honda going half a million miles with no trouble... we're waiting.

Not everyone on here is content with comments "Its obvious" "period". It's not possible to condense all applications and requirements with 1 or 2 small trucks and 1 larger model. I find debating applications as more suitable than claiming that a limited import truck line up suits every possible individual. Maybe that has relevance on small cars, but certainly not in larger trucks. And although gas mileage has importance, it's less important than actual capability. I know quite a few such as myself that cannot work within the confines or limitations with narrow import offerings. Maybe at some point in time this relevance may sink in, and why not everyone can make small trucks do the tasks that we buy and not armchair comment these vehicles for. That want a full size truck, and may buy a smaller car in time, but not going backwards and regretting having a small truck that is not going to perform many applications.

Coming from a family of both car enthusiasts and truck owners (both business use and personal use), my personal experience has not only shown the full size domestic trucks to be better in all respects to any import, but also our experience with the Ford Ranger has shown it to be a far better buy for business use than the smaller Toyota. It is far less expensive to purchase, and is every bit as reliable in the long run.

The Ranger design is old, but often products that have been mildly refined over the years prove to be far more reliable than new editions that often come with "first year bugs".

For business use the Ranger, F-150, Dodge Ram and big Chevy trucks have no competition.

09:17 You're using the same tired, old argument that domestic owners keep using on this site. And it is ineffective.

Here's what I keep seeing over and again... when a FORD gets a decent rating, for once, the Ford guys rant and rave about how it's the best car ever created, like that crappy Ford Fusion they love to keep talking about. BUT, when an import gets a decent rating, like they almost always do, those SAME people claim that the source isn't credible. Pick one. Either they are or are NOT credible.

I do my own thinking, and one thing I know, that gets proven over and over again in reality, is that Toyota makes better and FAR more reliable vehicles than any so-called 'domestic' auto manufacturer. There proof is evident, it's there in reality, and the reviews and ratings reflect that truth.

20:53 pretty vague when you say Ford... or Toyota. Tacoma and Tundra that's it. GM Silverados have far more capability in their extensive lineup, more towing capability, better load carrying, better handling, better ride, more room inside and better warranty.

I drove most of the new late models, and sorry Tundra is not as superior as my last 2 Silverados. I suspect this will invite a 17 year old Tacoma comment or an 80's Dodge comparison. At any rate I test drive and go over features and capabilities and then buy... I could compare motorcycles on here as far as irrelevance on drifting off late model full size trucks. We are discussing small cars, small trucks and even vans on this specific thread. Test drive some new full sizes and see where I am coming from. I bought from test driving and capabilities as well as better warranty. And the new GM full size trucks are great.

A "tired old argument" is one that offers no evidence or real proof. For a very long time we have asked repeatedly for PROOF of the statement of OPINION that "imports are better than domestics". Frequency of repair records are the ONLY proof, and we have seen none. Toyota saying "our cars are best", import owners saying "our cars are best" and magazine test drivers who drive a car for an hour and who say "This car is best" are ALL expressing OPINIONS. An OWNER who says "I've driven my Ford 300,000 miles with no trouble" is stating a FACT. It carries weight. A mechanic (and I AM one) who says "The structural members on a Honda are much flimsier than a Ford" is stating a FACT.

I've driven and worked on many cars and trucks. I've owned over 35 domestics, and my family and I (including my siblings) have owned 8 imports, including Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Volkswagen (that includes 2 Toyotas, 2 Mitsubishis and 2 Volkswagens). Personal experience indicated the most poorly built were Honda and Mazda. The best was Toyota.

However, none of the imports were as reliable or well built as ANY of the domestics. None of the imports were kept much beyond 100,000 miles (most didn't last that long). Many of the domestics, which included cars and trucks from all three domestic makers, made well over 200,000 miles. One made over 300,000. NONE of these cars ever required major engine or transmission repairs. The biggest repairs any ever required were starters (Ford and GM) and carburetors (on the older Fords). The Chryslers were virtually repair-free, and one Buick went 277,000 with virtually NOTHING done to it.

In looking back on nearly 40 years of owning and working on cars, there is no way I could say I feel an import (ANY import) is any more reliable than a domestic. I read a lot of comments saying "Newer domestics are better". As far as I'm concerned, the OLDER domestics did pretty good. The longest lasting car my family ever owned was a 1975 Ford that was sold at 325,000 miles. NO engines replaced, NO transmissions rebuilt. All we really did with it was DRIVE it.

As for the Tundra, the specs for the Tundra and Ford F-150 were offered up numerous times, showing how flimsy the Tundra was in comparison to the Ford. Apparently all that went right over the head of the import fan who has not driven a domestic in 17 years. True, the latest model Tundra DID beef up the frame a little (by COPYING Ford's design) but overall it is still a far cry from competitive with ANY domestic truck.

"one thing I know, that gets proven over and over again in reality, is that Toyota makes better and FAR more reliable vehicles than any so-called 'domestic' auto manufacturer. There proof is evident, it's there in reality, and the reviews and ratings reflect that truth."

How do you explain Toyota engines failing at low mileages on a widespread basis as documented by Consumer Affairs:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

It seems to me that this has been largely ignored by the automotive press. So, I do not think they reflect the truth.

Full size trucks are dinosaurs anyway. As I write this, both Ford and GM are bleeding money. There is even talk of possible bankruptcy or takeovers. This is largely to do with the insurmountable problems on Wall Street. But GM, Ford, and Chrysler were in trouble well before that. They focused too heavily on trucks and SUVS while ignoring their small cars and trucks. Let's face it. Cars from the 90's and early 2000's like the Cavalier, Corsica, Ranger, and S-10 were jokes. The big three commonly referred to these as "bottom feeders" because they made a tiny profit per unit. As a result, they were given the least development, the least amount of care in regards to quality, and changed them very little over the years.

Lately they've come out with some decent products. But the damage was already done. Honda and Toyota had an entire portfolio of high quality cars and trucks ranging from their smallest to largest vehicles. That GM and Ford were asleep at the wheel for too long is what has gotten them in such grave trouble, which is why they're slapping together Mazda/Fusions in Mexico, importing Astras from Germany, and slapping Chevy badges on Daewoos from Korea.

Who cares about full size trucks anymore. They're toast and so are the big three that make them.

The automotive press has NEVER really been objective. For that reason, you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when a domestic gets praise it is DEFINITELY due to genuine higher quality vehicles. When the Cadillac CTS gets awarded "Car of the Year" honors, you can be assured it is LEAGUES ahead of the competition. When the Corvette is favorably compared to the much less reliable Ferrari, you can be assured that it is MUCH better. And finally, when a Ford Fusion is the HIGHEST RATED car Consumer Reports has ever tested, you can know beyond any doubt that it is truly phenomenal (even Honda Accord owners are praising the Fusion).

ALL car makers are in big trouble now. Toyota sales are down 32%. Sales of domestics are much better in other areas of the world than they are in the U.S. (although the entire world auto market will most likely drop off more in the near future). There is absolutely NO valid evidence to support the myth that imports are better. It is a purely SUBJECTIVE opinion based on personal preference.

11:36 They reviewed 3 year old cars of all makes, one owner, and looked at the repair records of these cars, and how often they were in the garage in those 3 years. The FACT is that the Toyota's, Honda's, and Hyundai's were in the garage less, which obviously means they have less problems. What YOU state is opinion. These are facts.

18:43 Well, your opinion is in the extreme minority, because most experts rate the imports as being much higher quality. It's been that way for a long time, and still is today. Read JD Power's latest study.

And by the way, just because some starry-eyed Ford owner types here that his Ford has 300,000 miles doesn't make it true. It MIGHT be a fact; if we were talking about a Honda or a Toyota, it's much more likely to be true than if it were a Ford. In FACT, I just read a study, I honestly can't remember who did it, big it was a major name in the automotive industry, and they rated Honda first and Toyota second in a category that roughly said "cars most likely to get 250,000 miles or more".

My experience, and those of EVERY single other Toyota owner I have EVER known, is that switching from domestics to imports (Toy's specifically) was the best move we ever made when it comes to automobiles. They simply are put together better, with better materials, more care for quality control, and they run smoother, longer, and more efficiently with far less breakdowns than domestics.