2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

For over 20 years the best selling vehicle in America has been a domestic full size truck. I am using mine a lot more since gas prices have come down.

As far as being dinosaurs, I have found that mine pays for itself with its usefulness... I remodeled my own homes, tow my boat vs. pay to have it in a slip or high and dry, moving, and hitting the antique auctions bringing furniture home. I cannot see not having such a useful vehicle and find it very practical to own.

I am not seeing the tremendous reliability on late model import cars; if anything average or less.

I suspect the stock market and other economic influences will be a factor in vehicle purchases. However I see the lowering of gas pricing, and those with 2 or more children to transport missing the room, comfort and space of SUV's and not be crammed into little sedans.

Gas is under $3 a gallon here, and my family likes to make trips together and get out. If you are 1 or 2 people or a solo long distance commuter, maybe small crammed imports are for you.

The same is for a full size truck. Once you have left small trucks you are sorely disappointed going downwards. I get in my truck without hesitation and it owes me nothing. What I do not like is spending $3-4K on low mileage repairs as I have with late model Japanese imports. You have a pretty strong opinion when you have first hand major mechanical issues, especially when you spent over 30 grand.

18:43 wasn't an OPINION. It was clearly stated facts. Then along comes 22:45 with clearly stated (and UNDOCUMENTED) OPINIONS. He "can't remember" who did a study he cites. He has also never met the challenge put forth earlier to DOCUMENT ONE SINGLE 500,000 mile Toyota or Honda still running with the original engine and transmission (and NOT rebuilt at that, and NOT a diesel truck).

This has been a familiar pattern with import fans. Offer tons of (unfounded) criticism of domestics, but offer no documented evidence to support their (unfounded) claims that imports are "better".

In a debate opinion NEVER matters. Facts DO. I'd love to see some FACTS (provided the commenter can remember AND CITE where he read them).

"Who cares about full size trucks anymore."

How about people who make a living with them for starters? Similarly, how about everyday people who save money working on their own homes/properties and tow heavy loads? How many 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall can you bring home in a Tacoma?

Do you suppose farmers who need a vehicle to deliver their crop might be interested in full size trucks? How about boat owners?

Do you think a Tacoma is going to move my 28 foot cabin cruiser? For that matter, do you think a Tundra could do it (without twisting itself out of shape and and having the engine warp in the middle of the trip that is)?

If one only needs their vehicle for moving five or six bags of mulch a year or driving to male manicures, yes, I agree a Tacoma would do just fine. But, if one has serious work to do, they need a serious truck, meaning a full sized domestic, the heavier duty the better.

Although I strongly support buying more fuel efficient vehicles (domestics only, as the U.S. needs the money), it makes no sense to give away a good SUV and go in debt for a car that gets better mileage.

My wife currently drives a mid-sized domestic SUV that gets 19mpg city and 24 hwy. It is paid for. To go in debt 30 grand for a hybrid that might get 10 mpg better mileage would make absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever.

If it follows our past experience with domestics, we should easily get another 220,000-250,000 miles out of our current SUV without any major repairs. We can save enough on the cost of a new vehicle to buy fuel for a decade.

09:24 Pointless argument. Toyota doesn't make anything as large as an F-350, so yes, your Ford or whatever has more towing capacity. If Toyota ever does decide to make a truck that large, it'll be better than any Ford or Chevy, just like everything else they make already is. But as soon as you begin talking about trucks or any other vehicle the size of a Tundra or smaller, Toyota makes the best of them in every single category. Which is the reason the Tundra is JD Power's truck of the year.

"If Toyota ever does decide to make a truck that large, it'll be better than any Ford or Chevy, just like everything else they make already is."

Do you use the Tundra, which Consumer Reports rates its reliability as much worse than average and people have been having problems with all over this site, as the basis for that prophecy?

Moreover, I have not seen any Toyota fans explain why Toyota's are having widespread engine failures as documented by Consumer Affairs:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Thus, your prediction is baseless as far as I am concerned.

"09:24 Pointless argument."

No, actually 22:47 is the pointless argument. You don't have to have an F-350 to compete with the Tundra. The F-150 will easily do everything commenter 09:24 is referring to, and it is (supposedly) in the same class as the Tundra. The Tacoma is not a real truck. It is useful for camping and very light hauling. It is no more reliable (or useful) than the Ford Ranger.

As for J.D. Powers picking the Tundra as "Truck of the Year" I found no mention of this on Google. J.D. Powers (to my knowledge) does not give "car and truck of the year" awards. They are a rating service based on owner satisfaction. In 2007 they rated the Pontiac Grand Prix as best large sedan (over the Toyota Avalon) and Mustang has consistently beat out the Toyota Solara as best sporty coupe in their ratings. Buick has tied with Lexus in quality and reliability. I'd say that gives domestic vehicles a pretty good standing.

The Ford F-150 has been the world's top selling truck for three DECADES, so it must be doing something right. I seriously doubt that the Tundra will be in existence for 3 decades. The Tacoma is a good small, light-duty truck, but has never rated higher in reliability than the Ranger. They both receive an "average" rating.

Toyota does not also make a vehicle equivalent to a F-250-or 3/4 ton Silverado or Rams as well. Or diesel. Baseless comparisons on non-existent models is really reaching.

I do see comparing small cars and small trucks together. Applying that same logic does not work well ignoring applications. I'll pay more for gas knowing I have the utility aspect covered. I have a family need space, room for luggage etc. as well as towing. Compromising safety, capability and comfort is not worth the few extra dollars in fuel or needing to have a trailing vehicle burning 2 tanks of fuel. Factor in other issues such as the lousy warranty with imports for those of us driving a lot and it loses appeal. Gas is at $2.61 gallon why drive a crammed up uncomfortable bland vehicle every weekend with distant driving? Gas keeps dropping and I suspect the little beater cars will start being the ones parked.

Actually, I wouldn't count on gas staying under $3 a gallon for very long. A lot of people think the current administration (who are all oil people) are getting the oil companies to lower prices in an attempt to help their party. Regardless of whether that is true or not (and I really suspect it is), look for gas to head quickly for $5 a gallon after the election, regardless of who wins. I wouldn't put that small car in moth balls just yet.

Gas is only part of the ownership. Quality is also function, capability, features and warranty.

Seems obvious that lower cost to own over 5 years, better warranty, less mechanical issues, more room, better handling, better ride, better towing, better load carrying is why I did not buy a new Tundra and bought a new full size new Silverado.

I'll test the larger import truck offerings again. Small trucks, cars and vans have no basis when test driving and buying full size trucks.

Gas prices are going down for two reasons:

1) People are using less; and (you will not hear this next one on the news)

2) America is finally talking about tapping into its own oil supplies, which is causing OPEC to do some soul searching over its prices - i.e., they know that they soon (hopefully) may not be the only game in town.

The idea that president Bush is keeping prices down is not accurate. You might recall that Bush went to OPEC earlier this year and asked them to increase production to bring down prices (something which no American president should ever have to do, because we should be producing our own oil) and they basically told him to go pound sand. So, I do not think the current administration has any pull with them.

In actuality, it would not stand to reason that OPEC would want to do anything to help Republicans, because Republicans (with the exception of John McCain, who might as well be truthful and call himself a Democrat) typically want to tap into domestic oil supplies and eliminate the need for Middle Eastern Oil. Thus, OPEC would have every reason for wanting to RAISE prices, to make Bush look bad and get the Democrats elected in November because of their opposition to drilling.

Oil from newly drilled wells won't make a dent in our oil supplies (or pose any threat to OPEC) for at least 10 years.

Secondly, the total U.S. oil reserves hold roughly 5% of the amount of oil we currently use, so no matter how much of it we tap, it will make virtually no difference at all on our oil imports. Since oil companies want to make all the money they can, they will lobby our elected representatives to block any effort to develop more energy efficient cars or alternative energy. That is precisely why the U.S. auto industry has dragged its feet about building more fuel efficient cars. The current administration, which is composed of oil company puppets, has blocked all meaningful attempts to build more efficient cars or find alternative energy sources. Drilling will do absolutely NOTHING to extend our supplies or lower prices. When greed runs the country, we all suffer.

Seems like buying "correct" domestic classic cars is the way go... if you can afford a 57 T Bird, 60's Vettes, Shelby for example averaging 16% gain a year over the past 10 years... it seems better than gold or real estate.

The credit crunch, stock market fiasco, rising gas prices, mortgage mess has affected the rise in small economy car purchases, but I hate driving them just as much as the economy that has influenced people flocking to an unsavory direction to own them. I'll drive less and enjoy owning a better vehicle, rather than feel stuck in a vehicle I thoroughly hate driving and owning.

"Oil from newly drilled wells won't make a dent in our oil supplies (or pose any threat to OPEC) for at least 10 years."

Not true. Explored areas that have been shown to contain oil can begin producing within a year if the moratorium on drilling were lifted, contrary to the liberal talking points. And, how much oil non-explored areas contain is only speculation by people hoping for a particular outcome to suit their political agenda.

I agree that we need to develop alternative sources of energy, but right now our expansive energy infrastructure is unfortunately based largely on oil. It will take quite a long time (possibly in excess of 10 years) to convert that entire infrastructure to viable alternative sources. While, this conversion process has started to a degree, I fully concur that it needs to be expanded and take place at a faster rate than it is going.

However, there is nothing wrong with tapping the US tapping its own oil supplies in an environmentally responsible manner for use in the interim while our proportional use of alternative energy expands, or to supplement alternative sources as required after they become our primary source. The more domestically produced energy supplies we have available (including oil) the more secure we are. I do not want to be at the mercy of OPEC for the 10+ years I believe it will take to fully convert to alternative sources.

The 10+ year estimate to convert to alternative sources is my own personal estimate as an electrical engineer, but I would be happy to be proven wrong if somebody has good reason (i.e., not because Nancy Pelosi says so) to feel otherwise.

The current lower gas prices has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than that OPEC raised production in May and June, which lead to overproduction and oversupply. This is also loosely tied to people driving less and going away from large SUVs and trucks. It has nothing to do with drilling new wells. Trust me - prices are artificially low right now and once the oversupply is consumed, the prices will be going right back up again.

I also agree - the current Republican stump speech about drilling in the US will have ZERO effect on oil independence or lower prices. It takes years to develop such operations, and by the time they would be fully operational, wouldn't make an impact since by then global demand will have eaten up this additional production.

The simple truth is that oil will no longer be an option if we want to live the same lifestyles that we currently have. This means cars powered by electricity, hydrogen, or whatever other non-petroleum based fuels exist.