2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

I'm not even sure a "classic" domestic is the way to go. A nearly new (2005) custom Mustang GT sold for $300,000 on the weekend's Barrett-Jackson car auction.

The Barrett-Jackson prices are insane. Classic car collecting has unfortunately been transformed from a fun hobby into a yuppie status symbol. Like everything else in our economy, the prices of classic cars are ridiculously over inflated due to the centrally regulated easy money economic schemes of the past decade and will eventually come down - probably crashing down - as people come back down to reality. When that occurs, I will buy a classic car at the correct price.

Barrett Jackson also supplied info on 16% return on selected classics and musclecars. Better than 401K's in my case.. They had a advertising billboard 2 Fords=1 house on the auction wall.

The problem with collectible cars is that they tend to be the SAME cars over and over. I used to go to shows all the time. Fully half are either Bel-Airs, Mustangs, or Cameros. That and a lot of 70's muscle cars like Chargers, etc etc. BORING!! I happen to drive a 55' Mercury Monterey. I only paid $1,800 for it and it is a California car. Only difference is that it isn't "popular" like a 57' Chevy. But so what? What's so great about having one of 75 identical Bel Airs at a car show?

In regards to using large trucks for work, well if you look at videos and TV shows filmed in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East, seems to me that farmers and workers there get along just fine and dandy using small trucks and tractors to perform their jobs. To say that you HAVE to have a full size truck to work only means that you're inflexible. The equipment that trucks haul will likely change to work with more efficient vehicles anyway. Good example: My Dad, who traded his Ford F-250 for a Tacoma, sold his 30 foot camper that he towed with the Ford, and bought a smaller, all fiberglass camper the Tacoma now pulls.

I have yet to see rows of identical cars in any car shows I have ever been in. But it is perhaps I see more than one 1955 stock Chevrolet walking quickly by... I see 17 different 1955 Chevrolet 150,210 and Belair body styles and 4 different engines, as well as different paint and trim. And that it is stock alone. I have been in first generation Camaro as well as dedicated Vette shows the largest in Wheaton Village, N.J. They are not all identical.

It's also hard to imagine owning an old 50's domestic car and having no interest in car shows. I do like restored classics of all makes and models however today and the stories behind the hard work to restore them. I just saw a Barracuda owner yesterday that is unsure whether to restore a just purchased second car in need of restoration or just pull part out the $2000 rear window to finish his first car. That's what I find interesting in collecting are each cars individual history.

I am doubtful if we will ever see a collectible Tundra model however look at the value of clean 1990-93 full size Chevrolet 454 SS Pickups as a comparison. I am also not certain what a 18 year old Tacoma will be worth very much in the future. There's more than just getting from A to B in basic transportation. Old classics are also liquid and still able to be enjoyed vs. just watching home prices and retirement investments plummet. I feel buying the right models that you are walking by at the car shows are smart investments. The appeal of Mustangs,Camaros,early Vettes,Cudas,Road Runners have never hurt me selling vs. buying models that are less collectible or orphan models.

The idea of a "collectible" Tundra really gave me a laugh!! The ones that even last 25 years (if any could manage that feat) would hardly be worth a second (or FIRST) look. No Toyota has the style or flare to become a classic. Domestics are creating "new" classics all the time, such as the retro Mustang, Camaro and Challenger. In the truck field there are numerous special edition trucks (such as the Ram SRT-10, Ford Harley-Davidson, etc., that will be classics in years to come. A well restored SRT-10 will bring a fortune in years to come. A 25 year old Tundra might bring $100 at a scrap yard.

Collectible cars are only worth money because the people who drove them in their youth want to re-live their younger years, hence they buy the car they drive to their high school prom. If you look at the majority of old car collectors, most are in their 50's-70's. So in other words, the current collectible cars are what was available and most common in their day.

But I've actually started to see a number of old Japanese car shows out here in California. Cars like Toyota Coronas, Celicas, and Corollas from the 60's and 70's are starting to become quite valuable and desirable along with others like Datun 210's, 510's, 280Z's and the infamous "Ladybird".

I'm from a younger generation who grew up with Japanese cars. Don't be surprised if you start seeing a lot of us start restoring these and having car shows full of them. Thus its entirely feasible that indeed - A Tundra or Tacoma could very easily be at a future car show near you...

All of the back and forth banter means nothing. Toyota makes better cars and trucks than Ford, Chevy, or Dodge ever has. That's the point. If you don't like it, too bad.

21:37 I watched Barrett Jackson last night, and I did not see any lines of Toyotas that are now worth many times their original selling price.

An opinion is an opinion; I feel new domestics are superior based on first hand late model ownership. Also there are those successful and younger than 50 buying. My son bought his Viper at age 30. My money went into his education; an even better investment.

"I'm from a younger generation who grew up with Japanese cars."

Too bad. You missed experiencing what a real car is like.

"All of the back and forth banter means nothing. Toyota makes better cars and trucks than Ford, Chevy, or Dodge ever has. That's the point. If you don't like it, too bad."

Don't you just LOVE these objective, fact-filled comments?? So much data to support the argument and so much valid documentation. Why, with all this rock-solid "proof" I'm almost persuaded to run out and buy one of those perfect Tundras to pull my 60-foot sailboat!!

I actually disagree that Barrett Jackson cars are overpriced. Take a close look at the high level of restoration and then add all the related restoration costs to achieve that level. It's a lot of hard work and attention to detail.

I have driven inexpensive drivers, and they are what they are. Driving a car full of Bondo, needing paint, re-chroming, cut up dash, bad floor pans and trunk it was a real wake up call starting over. Unless you are truly in love with a car, condition is a real factor. The day you sell with hundreds of personal hours involved tearing down, replacing, driving hours to attain a single hard to find part, it starts making sense to buy the nicest car you can afford instead.

I have seen a lot of Barrett Jackson cars that $40,000 may cover the restoration cost, and then you look at the price less the commission for a turn key vehicle. I also feel it makes much more sense to buy vehicles that have broader appeal if you ever want to sell. Then you can have a stronger possibility of regaining all the time and hard work involved.

I do not get any kind of adrenaline rush with any current Toyota model, including their trucks. It's nice having reliability, but then not drop the ball with features, function and capability that full size domestic trucks offer.

The random edict imports are better is not accurate as to what I have tested and experienced lately. And I buy not armchair comment or lament on vehicles acquired long ago. It's 2008, and now 2009 models exist. I find domestic full size pickups far superior today.

"Don't you just LOVE these objective, fact-filled comments?? So much data to support the argument and so much valid documentation."

It's actually quiet easy to find facts that support these claims: Just about any consumer or industry quality reports, and no - we're not talking "initial" quality either, but rather how long a car lasts 5,10,15 years. Hands down, Honda, Toyota, and their luxury divisions are a higher quality. They might also be your only choice sooner or later because both GM and Ford are on life support.

Lastly, yes indeed I grew up with Japanese cars. The argument that they aren't exciting doesn't make sense considering that some of the "collector" cars now are cars like Chevy Novas. These were bland, pedestrian, bare-bones cars back in the day. But guess what? A lot of you drove them back when you were young, and therefore you like them and will pay lots of money for them. The same goes for people like me. Things change. Tastes change.

In regards to old cars and values, there's something to be said about a man with a family who spends $40,000 and $50,000 of the family's money restoring an old car. I can't tell you how many guys I knew where the family was barely making it, yet good ole' dad was spending all of his free time fixing up some old car.

I myself happen to own a 55' Mercury. Yes, it isn't perfect, has some bondo here and there, has the original interior, and drives fine. But it gets just as much attention at the shows as some of those cars someone spent 100,000 restoring. People in many cases actually like to see wear and tear and not some absolutely perfect, slick, flawless car. There's 100's of them anyway, so once you see one 55 Belair, 65 Mustang, 68 Camero, or yet another Ford couple with a flathead... you've pretty much seen it all.

Again - car shows are increasingly becoming boring since everyone restores the same cars and in most cases do so with poor taste, using weird colors and custom touches essentially destroying the car's original beauty. Can't tell you how many ugly pink hot rods I see these days. ugh..

I agree about spending family money wisely. With the downturn in the housing market, stocks etc. I am glad I sold our former oversized home 2 years ago and took the profit and just paid off our current smaller home. I still have room and a big garage. If I held the other home til now I would have to take a hit or not be able to see it. And I would rather buy cars now.

And if you focus on popular restored classic muscle cars (the ones with appeal), I see it as a sounder investment today. They will dip at times, but still are climbing in value.

I prefer GM, but like most restored domestic classics. My oldest son wisely started with classic Mustangs. He owned 3 Mustangs in a row and now owns a Viper. The last 1966 he changed to a 95 GT drivetrain and added retro A/C. From the outside it looked pure stock. The others were "restified" meaning they can be quickly returned to original form.

Choosing a car like an early Mustang is smart. It is the most important production car of all time ever developed. This makes it have broader appeal and easy to have a valuable vehicle. And to sell easily.

I am not seeing any great Toyota cars or trucks with the appeal of any of the high production classics. What's an old Corolla or Camry worth today? The secondary car lots are full of some pretty sad examples. I see them as basic transportation only. The horrors I see are the winged ones with the f... pipe with bad rings and torched springs, mainly Civics with all the racing stickers down the sides. I rather see a modified pink one in nice shape than old rusty examples.

"Hands down, Honda, Toyota, and their luxury divisions are a higher quality."

Come one, I think you need to challenge your preconceived notions. Toyota is experiencing severe quality problems, including widespread instances of complete engine failures at low mileages. Aside from me personally witnessing and being financially damaged by such disasters, they are also documented on Consumer Affairs:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

I do not think that makes Toyota the standard-bearer for quality.

Moreover, the absolute primary reason cars have "evolved" to the way they are today (i.e., front wheel drive unit body configuration) is for one reason: to make them easier and less expensive to manufacture. All manufacturers have to do is stamp out a body, put a suspension, stuff a transversely oriented engine under the hood in any convoluted way they can get it, and link its power to the road through an incredibly fragile and physically non-sensible driveline configuration.

Why do you think car manufacturers (including Japanese companies) are returning many of their models to rear wheel drive? Many people who grew up with RWD dislike FWD for good reason. For example, they are tired of constantly replacing drive axles, and bloodying up up knuckles during (or paying outrageous prices for) even the slightest repair or maintenance procedure. Have you ever replaced a transmission or clutch on a FWD? It is not pretty, nor is the repair bill that results.

I agree vehicles should evolve, and will even admit that the Japanese vehicles generally shifted the automotive tide in a direction it needed to go in when they were introduced. However, vehicle "evolution" should be tailored toward what is best for the consumer, not the manufacturer. I do not think that is what has occurred.