2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

Comment 12:46 is an example of an informed and accurate comment based on fact and citing credible data. As a mechanic I totally agree about the front drive issue. It is simply cheaper for the manufacturer, and the arguments about better handling and better traction, etc. are pure ad hype to sell uninformed drivers on a system basically designed to make more money for car makers by cutting costs, and making the cars so difficult to work on that people HAD to take them to the dealer and pay $800 to have a $50 water pump installed.

We currently own one domestic front drive car, one rear drive domestic sports car, and a mid-sized rear drive domestic SUV. If we get a snow or ice storm, the front drive car stays in the driveway, as it has way less traction and handles MUCH worse than the rear drive SUV.

Due to the extreme repair cost and difficulty in working on them, I'd never own a Japanese front-drive vehicle of any kind. They require more maintenance and generally break down much more often than domestic vehicles. The one front-drive we have is a GM, and in typical GM fashion has never required a single repair in 8 years.

"For example, they are tired of constantly replacing drive axles"

This may be true for most imports. The CV joints in our Honda were clattering at only 40,000 miles. However this has NOT been the case with our domestics. My last Dodge went over 240,000 miles without CV joints are half-shafts (or anything else, for that matter). Our current front-drive GM is going on 9 years old and has never had a CV joint or half-shaft problem. Everything on it is still original except the tires, battery and brakes.

You know, if you tell yourself something over and over again, such as trying to convince others that somehow, GM and Ford make better cars than Toyota or Honda, you start believing it yourself.

Again, the overall conclusion based on the grand total of available quality comparisons via publications, reports, and studies show Toyota and Honda outperforming the big three, and usually by large margins.

This argument is like the current presidential election: Even though one side chooses a woman who doesn't even know who the PM of Canada is and utilizes the same politics of the worst administration in US history, somehow roughly 45% of the US STILL thinks it's a good idea to elect them. Thank God this time they won't win.

But the same is with cars. Nevermind that GM and Ford have been pouring out garbage from their factories for years, have cut every corner possible, shipped massive amounts of labor overseas, and now even imports a lot of their engines from China, people still refuse to admit to the truth that yes - Honda and Toyota make a superior product, hands down, end of argument.

10:33.

Bad analogy (politics). We are trying to have a discussion (albeit spirited) about cars here.

If you want to add anything constructive, maybe you can explain why Toyota engines are failing in mass quantities:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

I still have not seen a Toyota fan address this.

"http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html.

I still have not seen a Toyota fan address this."

I'll address it for you. Yes - cars have problems. All brands, all models, and all years regardless of what the overall quality reports might say. But what you're suggesting above isn't proof of anything. If you look on the same site you're using to make your case, just click on the General Motors section and select just one of their cars. Here's the thread for the Chevy Malibu for example:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_chev_malibu.html

On that page alone, there's over 100 entries.

What about the Chevy Impala?

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_chev_malibu.html

Again - well over 100 entries.

Now... what about the Avalon?

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_avalon.html

2 complaints. That's right, not 100, not 20, or even 10, but TWO. The difference between the complaints racked up against GM versus Toyota is inline with what I've mentioned above, which is that all in all, Toyota quality is generally better than GM and Ford. I even read on that site that one reader had claimed that the site was "unfair" to GM. Ironic since the material was written by actual GM owners and not journalists.

Sure - cars have problems. The key is which cars in general have LESS problems. The answer is clearly easy to see even using the site you mentioned above.

08:43 Well, Toyota engines aren't, and have never, failed in mass quantities. That's your phrase and it's your opinion. Nothing more. And there's your answer. They leave that kind of poor design and build to Ford and GM.

The sad thing is, Ford and GM's crappy drivetrains are the least of their troubles. I'm dating a paralegal; I won't say who or where obviously, who has handled the workload for HUNDREDS of cases against Ford, personally.. for vehicles bursting into flames while in the garage, hours after being driven, for example. I could go on and on, spark plugs blowing right out of badly machined heads, causing fires, brake and seatbelt related accidents. All of this is FACT. Google anything I just mentioned and put "Ford" behind it; you will see the proof as well as a mountain of other Ford and GM's embarrassing safety and quality oversights.

I don't expect you diehard domestic fans to understand why Toyota's and Honda's are better vehicles. If you did understand, you wouldn't be driving Fords and Chevy's. The only reason to own one is by default; if you need something that can tow the load an F-350 can, because the imports wisely didn't enter that market.

Wonder why Ford/GM/Dodge trucks are sitting on the lots for several months or a year at a time? Why those three are all in serious trouble? Toyota and Honda invested where the market is. Passenger cars, light to full size trucks, vans..etc. Granted, the F-350 isn't a bad truck. But as for anything smaller, ANY car or light truck, Toyota and Honda outclassed them decades ago and continue to today, by a large margin.

To 08:43. Sorry, but you will NEVER see an import fan provide any DOCUMENTED or VERIFIABLE data proving that imports are better. I've offered this challenge so many times I have Carpal-tunnel syndrome from typing so much.

I'm a senior citizen, mechanic and car enthusiast. I've driven, worked on and owned some of just about every moderately priced vehicle around. In all my years of car ownership (we usually own 3-4 at a time) we've owned German, Japanese and domestic vehicles. No import has EVER been as solidly reliable as ANY of our Ford, GM or Chrysler products.

We have put 300,000+ miles on a Ford with virtually zero problems, 240,000+ miles on a Dodge with similar results and 277,000+ miles on a Buick with NO problems of ANY kind.

I see comments from import owners who have probably never owned a domestic stating that "Ford engines blow up at 40,000 miles".

The daughter of a friend of ours bought a brand new Ford and drove it 56,000 miles without EVER OPENING THE HOOD!! She was totally ignorant of cars and her father had no idea she wasn't having it serviced. That it made 56,000 miles without oil changes or even checking any of the fluids (or requiring a battery) is a miracle in itself.

We had a neighbor who bought a new Corolla and had it serviced exactly as recommended. The engine seized at 30,000 miles and Toyota (at first) refused to fix it, claiming he HADN'T changed the oil. The man stuck lemon stickers on the car, rented a large truck (a FORD appropriately), and hauled the Corolla around with a large sign on it. The local newspaper ran a photo of it with the caption "Oh what a feeling to DRAG a Toyota". I heard later that after much bad publicity, the dealer agreed to a settlement.

We currently own an 8-year-old GM car, a 5-year-old GM SUV and a 1-year-old Ford. None of them has ever had a single problem. The 8-year-old GM has had tires, a battery, and brake pads (at 70,000 miles). The Ford, of course, is new, but in view of our past experience with Fords, I expect this one to outlive me. The ONLY cars we've had experience with that DIDN'T make 100,000 miles without massive problems were a Honda Civic and a Volkswagen.

As for Tundra, Toyota made a good decision to copy some of Ford's great design ideas on the newer, larger Tundra. Unfortunately, Toyota's "uncharacteristic lapse in quality" (as Consumer Reports put it) still plagues the Tundra, making it a bit of a risky buy for reliability.

The rock-solid Ford F-150 STILL remains the best selling vehicle on the planet after 3 DECADES, and likely will continue to hold that position unless knocked off by rising fuel prices. Unfounded statements declaring imports "superior" will doubtless continue to keep right on going and going... just like our domestic vehicles do.

I find first hand direct ownership as the most revealing. Sorry but imports have dropped significantly, and domestic full size trucks are better than ever. I had a 2004 Silverado; racked up 80,000 miles quickly, even towing a lot. No issues... tires, brakes and frequent fluid filter changes. So I bought more, but not without looking at both import and domestic new full size trucks. Still not impressed enough to switch... imagine buying a new vehicle ever few years and hating the actual driving, handling and capability. I hope we are not going back to the small truck/car comparisons again.

I also would like direct late model Toyota comments, addressing actual owner issues on consumeraffairs.com as well. Even better, look at features and benefits of domestic and import full size trucks by test driving them. By saying

you don't have to drive late model vehicles before basing an opinion is not how I approach and actually buy mine.

"Honda and Toyota make a superior product, hands down, end of argument."

I'll keep that in mind as I continue to drive the same Dodge that I've been driving for over 20 years. Yup, those lousy Dodges sure are unreliable. My last one only lasted 21 years and 260,000 miles before I had to sell it, and my current Dodge is only 35 years old with god knows how many miles. Yup, I sure wish I could find a more reliable car. Maybe I'll look for one in another ten years when my current Dodge quits. Should I look for a Toyota? No... I've had pretty good luck with Dodge. Sorry, no sale, 'yo.

"I also would like direct late model Toyota comments, addressing actual owner issues on consumeraffairs. com as well. Even better, look at features and benefits of domestic and import full size trucks by test driving them. By saying"

OK, well if direct ownership is more telling and you want more "proof" from more recent Toyota model owners since the new theory amongst domestic owners is that new Toyotas aren't as good as the old ones, I have several cases for you.

First, my Mom has a 2007 Honda CRV. She has a long commute and so far has put over 60,000 miles on it. So far so good. No problems. Not even in need of brake pads.

Second, my Dad has a 2001 Tundra - which according to you all are the "bad" Tundra. He uses it as an actual work truck. So far, it has 210,000 miles. Again - zero problems.

Third, My Uncle who after owning nothing but Fords for 50 years bought a Honda Pilot. They put 40,000 miles on it. His Wife had a head-on collision in it, totaling it. She was totally unscathed and got another one.

Fourth, me and my Wife have a 2002 Prius - the first generation. It spent the first 6 years in rural PA, in sub-zero winters. So far, no problems. It runs great and is just as reliable as all the other Toyotas we've owned.

Lastly, even though it's older, my 96 Tacoma has 230,000 miles. No problems. Runs like it was new.

What more can I say?

To 17:15. Well, your Dodge was SORT OF reliable. A co-worker of mine drove his old Plymouth 410,000 miles before that unreliable piece of American crap fell apart. Gosh, you can't even get a mere million miles out of most of this domestic junk.

This is for comment 11:58 who claims he is a mechanic and car enthusiast. I am not going to argue about what you said, but to correct you on what you said wrong. The best selling vehicle in America has been the Honda Civic, then Toyota Camry, then Toyota Corolla, then Honda Civic; if you want proof here is the link to the website :-

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080604-Honda-Civic-Now-America-s-Best-Selling-Vehicle/

And yes, you did say it may be knocked off by fuel prices, and well yes I think that is the reason it got knocked off top position, but why couldn't a domestic fuel efficient car make it in the top 4!? Look at all the cars in the top four - they are Japanese! So many people could not be wrong, there must be something that Japanese automakers are doing better than domestic - oh I know! Making better cars.

Oh and you love your Fords, look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB0araA0T_k&eurl=http://www.core77.com/blog/object_culture/the_bestselling_car_in_the_world_uhoh_9225.asp

It seems like a 2000 model Ford F-150, hmm sure wouldn't want to be in that.

Why is Toyota the number 1 maker? Is it because a majority of consumers can't see domestics are better as you claim? No that's not the reason, it's because it is better! If it was not better, Toyota wouldn't be the number one automaker. I am sorry but the domestics you owned back in the 60s are not the same now, they are worse.

11:16 Toyotas sales are way down from a year ago... What's your point? My last imports have been crap and expensive to repair.

I think there should be archived forums for the import owner with his head in the sand for ancient ownership issues. I would love to see this person ever read or comment on specific late model Toyota issues on consumeraffairs.com. As usual they point the finger the other direction rather than address the sludging, braking, air bags and engine concerns. It's OK to have these issues on Toyota because Ford had a faulty fuel filler design in the past.

The best selling full size truck is not a Toyota. The actual topic of the review. Maybe we can tow a small Toyota car though.

To comment 10:43. I heartily agree that ownership is one of the best indicators of quality and reliability in any vehicle. We owned imports during the era when they were supposed too be "good". During that time we also owned domestics, as we are a multi-car family. Only one import made 100,000 miles without rather major engine or transmission issues. None of our domestics ever required even one engine or transmission repair. We traded our last import for a Ford in 1999. I doubt we'll ever buy another import again.