2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

21:51 I did deal with it. I did not buy Toyota based on less features, benefits, capability, warranty, room, handling, ride quality, warranty. I am also leary of mechanical issue as well as comments on consumeraffairs.com as far as mechanical concerns on newer models.

I did drive the Tundra and it is nowhere near as nice as my new GM. When you buy a full size truck, I suspect you expect to throw away function and better capability offered by domestic trucks. I have had less issues with new domestics than I have had with new imports. Owning a 1996 truck does not make one an expert on 2008 newer full size trucks.

If you take away the utility aspect of load carrying and tow capability (riding empty commuting interstates) maybe a small light bed truck may have merit. It seems full size truck benefits and actual ownership and why people buy these trucks gets lost or distorted on here.

I agree a million mile warranty is extreme. A standard 100,000 mile warranty on all new vehicles across the board is the way to be fair. Having legal recourse with an actual warranty in place is better than no warranty without a leg to stand on. I have been in this situation. No warranty equals no warranty. Lack of dealer service prompted my full change to domestics. It really does not matter in the end. Each person is to ultimately making their own personal decision what to buy. I know I have spent a lot of money on new imports over a dozen. I am not buying them now anymore.

Toyota made big strides with the Tundra when it copied some of the top-selling Ford F-150's structural design features and made it slightly larger. It's frame no longer flexes wildly on bumps and most of the body parts actually remain in place over rough terrain. Yes, that IS an improvement over the super-flimsy and very poorly designed predecessor. However, to compare it to a domestic truck is sort of like comparing a Buick Lucerne to a Toyota Corolla. It is still a poor imitation of a REAL truck. It lacks the comfort, plush interior, silky smooth transmission and interior quality level of the Chevy Silverado or GMC Sierra, and lacks the long-term reliability of Dodge Ram or the F-150 or 250. Sorry, we'll stick with GM, and if they go under, we'll buy used ones.

Toyota makes better vehicles than anyone else other than Honda. Fact. A bunch of comments by Ford and Chevy owners doesn't change a thing. If you like Fords and Chevy's, buy them and keep badmouthing Toyota. That also changes nothing. You might like your Ford or Chevy better, but the fact remains that it isn't even close to being comparable in quality to a Toyota.

The Ford Fusion's ratings mean nothing either. Finally, a piece of junk Ford got lucky enough to be rated high. Not impressed. Toyota's ratings are historically MUCH higher and much more consistent overall; in the past and today. Nothing you guys say can change that. If you're not driving a Toyota (or possibly a Honda), then you're driving something inferior.

"13th Nov 2008, 09:39.

Ahh yes... the much touted theory that even though old domestic car were unreliable, that magically, the newer ones are 'much better'. We've been hearing this for years now.

I do a lot of traveling for my company. Most of the cars I rent on these trips are GM and Ford products. Of all of them, the majority were hardly acceptable."

I certainly disagree with both of these statements. My family has always been a used car family, so we get cars 4-11 years old. All of our American made cars built in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's all proved to be reliable. So I don't believe American cars ever have been unreliable. I'm still driving a 1973 Dodge and 1971 Plymouth. Our other late '70s era Dodge and Plymouth cars all passed 200,000 miles, which seemed exceptional at the time. However, our 1983 Cavalier, 1984 Reliant, 1985 Dodge, 1989 Pontiac, 1989 Chevy, and 1993 Seville all went past 200,000 miles with minimal repairs. Our 1997 Sable is a young one, with only 180,000 miles, and my '02 Ford with 100,000 miles is still like new. So, you would have to convince me that American cars have EVER BEEN unreliable. American cars always were reliable, and still are, as far as my own experience has shown.

I also do a lot of traveling for my company, and rent a lot of vehicles. Funny how my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. The Chevy Impalas and Malibus, and the Ford Fusions and Tauruses that I've rented have been smooth, gotten good mileage, are well built, and have good power. I don't know what there is to complain about. I was also impressed by the Dodge Caliber R/T that I recently rented. I guess some people are determined to find something to complain about when their mind is made up already.

It's is not bad mouthing when you present facts, test driving first hand new full size domestic trucks and the Tundra.

How this pertains to Prius, Fusions etc or cars perplexes me. When you buy a full size truck, unless I am not speaking for myself, I examine the following: load carrying in the bed, towing and handling characteristics, interior room, handling, comfort, warranty. I do not know if anyone else that has test driven many models frequently ever few years, but our household does. And then we buy.

If you are shopping for a new full size truck, does anyone else look at the utility aspect besides myself? I wonder how many have test driven new full size import trucks, if you can call them that, and new full size trucks before they bought yet another one recently. It seems to drift off to car comparisons and/or small trucks. It would seem better to focus on all large truck comparisons, any late model test drives, and maybe compare Prius with small cars.

I'd love to fill up a new small compact car 1/2-3/4 ton and then tow with a hitch on the back and then compare to a new full size truck on here.

Better capability, ride, better handling and better warranty is why I did not buy the Tundra. The Tundra is a bit quicker light to light, but that was not my primary incentive buying a full size truck. I looked at practically and utility first, otherwise I could be cruising about in a small car with a hatchback.

"Toyota's ratings are historically MUCH higher and much more consistent overall".

The Fusion has the highest rating ever given to a vehicle. No manufacturer has EVER scored that high.

"I also do a lot of traveling for my company, and rent a lot of vehicles. Funny how my experience has been the exact opposite of yours."

Let me rephrase it for you then. All of the Domestic branded vehicles I rented were absolutely sub-par compared to the Hondas and Toyotas we have in our family. The fit and finish, comfort level, and overall quality was not up to the same level. If you've only ever driven the same domestic brands, then you wouldn't know the difference, which I suspect is the case with the vast majority of the folks on this thread, who for some reason insist on bashing every single import brand thread on the site. I'm not sure what that motivation is, but you hardly see any of we Toyota owners making comments on the countless Domestic car threads, which are overwhelmingly filled with people that have had tons of problems with them.

And again - The Fusion is a Mazda platform using a Mazda engine with a Indian crank, and it is made in Mexico. So if you want to call it a "domestic" car... go for it. But that car is ironically more foreign than my Toyota, with its 65% US sourced parts and US assembled. Go figure that the one car that keeps on getting praised by you "Go USA!" folks is completely non-USA produced.

I have an excellent suggestion since you rent new vehicles. How about renting a new full size Ford V8 Pickup; the new ones are getting better MPG, a Silverado, a Ram and a Tundra and take some long trips. It might benefit everyone on here vs. talk about import cars, Cobalts etc.

This is a full size truck review. Rent a few new full sizes and take notes on features, ride, handling, loads, towing if you can. Since you are very interested in these models and may buy one someday... why not rent one?

I am a firm believer in test drives and I buy. If this is just a hypothetical opinion it may be best to address it as such. If you rent a full size new truck it may benefit everyone comparing them and those that buy them as well.

I have zero interest in small cars/trucks and am never buying one on a full size truck review. Keep in mind why people buy larger new trucks. Your late model current tests after renting on a long trip will have benefit for all on a full size truck review. I would appreciate it on my next new full size truck purchase upcoming.

"17th Nov 2008, 10:00.

"All of the Domestic branded vehicles I rented were absolutely sub-par compared to the Hondas and Toyotas we have in our family. "

Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Because of its subjectivity, your "argument" doesn't sway me, and won't prevent me from buying a Dodge or Ford when the time comes. I see no reason to consider Honda or Toyota based on your 'feeling' of a few rentals.

"...the vast majority of the folks on this thread, who for some reason insist on bashing every single import brand thread on the site. I'm not sure what that motivation is, but you hardly see any of we Toyota owners making comments on the countless Domestic car threads..."

I do not think anybody here bashes Toyota's just because they are Toyota's. Rather, I think some people (myself included) take issue with Toyota reviewers who using the Toyota review section to make claims of Toyota's being infallible, while excoriating domestics that many of us (who have been burned by Toyota's) know based on experience are much more reliable than Toyota's.

The rose colored Toyota glasses tend to come off after experiencing disasters like these:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

None of my domestics have ever had these types of problems.

To 15:52 and 15:50. I'm afraid you'll (1) never get the domestic basher to drive a domestic truck. He insists on comparing 20-year-old vehicles that are not full sized trucks and (2) get them to admit that Toyota is an inferior product (which is obvious from all the data cited) because they have a fixation based on a bad experience with one 20-year-old domestic and refuse to look at, or even drive anything other than an import.

I've had an absolutely horrible experience with THREE imports, but before buying my last new vehicle I test drove several imports (including Toyota) because I want to try to keep an open mind. After comparing ride, handling, warranty, and price I bought a Ford.

In driving the F-150 and Silverado, the difference between it and the Tundra are obvious. They have a better ride, more plush interior, better road feel, and three times the warranty at a price that is very competitive. In addition, my friends who have bought Tundras have had numerous problems and I know of not one single person who has bought a SECOND Tundra. I do know a few who switched back to Ford F-150's after giving up on the Tundra. I think this says a lot for Tundra's poor performance as a competitor to full-sized domestic trucks.

With regard to confronting attacks against domestic makers, I fully intend to stand firm in my support of the U.S. auto industry at a time when our country is on the brink of a depression and 1 in 10 jobs in the U.S. depend on Ford, GM and Chrysler. Even if they did NOT build the world's best cars and trucks, I would, out of a duty to maintain our economic stability, still buy domestics. It is my hope that the U.S. will implement very high tariffs on vehicles built by Japanese, Korean, German and British companies in order to save our ailing economy (which also has a HUGE impact on the world economy). I am urging our legislators to do just that.

I have rented Camry's and been thoroughly unimpressed. The suspension squeaked and clunked on every one, the handling and engine performance absolutely stank and the interior was laden with "cheap" (to borrow a term from the Toyota fans) plastic that was coming apart. In addition to the engine performance being terrible, they were consistently the roughest running engines I ever encountered, and would shake the whole car. On one occasion, I had to drive one of the rental Camry's on a military base and undergo a vehicle inspection that included popping the hood with the engine running. The engine was visibly shaking so badly, even the MP noticed and commented on it. It was very embarrassing, on top of the embarrassment of just showing up in a Toyota to begin with. From that point on, whenever I rent, I insist on a domestic vehicle.

"Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Because of its subjectivity, your "argument" doesn't sway me, and won't prevent me from buying a Dodge or Ford when the time comes. I see no reason to consider Honda or Toyota based on your 'feeling' of a few rentals."

Well, it's also the "opinion" of the vast majority of the American public, who have made the Camry the best selling car for almost 10 years. That and the fact that the vast majority of auto publications and consumer guides also gives Toyota and Honda products higher marks in fit and finish, as well as overall reliability.

Lastly - to the guy who keeps using the consumer guide link as 'proof'... I'd suggest you take a gander at the Chevrolet section. There's your proof.

Look, here are the facts again. They even teach this stuff in college business and economics:

In the 70's when Toyota and Honda began to sell in the United States, it caused a lot of uproar because it was a foreign product, and MAINLY because they were BETTER products. It is an inarguable fact that the Big 3 had slipped drastically in quality because there was no competition in the market.

Toyota and Honda came in, caught on well, maybe not right away, but I don't think there's anybody out there who could argue that they've cracked the American car market; considering they're still on the TOP of every auto magazine's quality ratings, and the fact that for the last 15 years or so, the best selling cars in the U.S. have been either a Toyota or a Honda, Toyota mostly. These imports FORCED the Big 3 to improve in quality, and they have, but the fact is obvious that it was too little too late. They never caught up in quality or technology. Clearly.

If the government doesn't bail them out, GM especially, they WILL go into bankruptcy and collapse. If they'd made decent cars all along, no one would have had the motivation to buy something foreign, but again, the fact is that they didn't. Toyota and Honda stepped in and made cars that were so much better than the domestics that Americans couldn't help but notice, and buy them.

Toyota and Honda still make the best, highest quality, and most reliable cars and trucks in the world, and far better than the domestics. The 'flash in the pan' Ford Fusion is just a SINGLE example of Ford possibly (and finally) getting something right. ONE single example. Practically EVERY Toyota and Honda put into production in the last 20 years has been rated HIGHER than all domestics.

I can list 50 Toyota's for every Ford that has been rated well (and there are very few). Japanese cars are designed and built better. Period.

I don't know why every review has to turn into a battle of domestics vs. imports.

There are good & bad in every make.

I don't know how the commenter can draw a conclusion based on rentals though. Rentals are usually the cheapest version of every model, and they have not all had an easy life.

For what it's worth I've rented many Camrys and have come away pretty impressed.

What do I own? One import, one domestic - I love them both!