2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

To 07:46: I'll be very happy to address what a DOMESTIC car is. It is a vehicle built by a company based in the U.S. The vast majority of income from these vehicles goes to the U.S., NOT Japan. This issue has probably been addressed on here a hundred times, but no one ever bothers to actually READ the posts.

Japanese companies ALREADY get massive billion dollar plus "bailouts" in the form of tax exemptions, low cost land leases, etc. They also locate in very poor areas of the country where they can pay half the wages of domestic employees and offer very meager benefits. Unlike the aid being sought by domestic companies, the U.S. will NEVER receive a penny of reimbursement from Toyota or Honda for the money our country has given them. On the other hand, the domestic makers are asking for a LOAN, NOT a tax break. Just as Chrysler did in the 80's, it will be repaid WITH INTEREST.

I'm going to laugh at the import fans if the domestic auto industry should go under. Not only will the resulting depression hit them just as hard as those of us driving reliable domestics, but when they see the price of a Civic or Corolla jump to $40,000 overnight, they'll be BEGGING for a domestic vehicle.

17:42 You Big 3 fans are incredible. Really. You ACTUALLY said, in light of all of what's going on, that people will be begging for domestic vehicles. WOW. Talk about a confusing leap of logic in the dark... new car buyers need a 'domestic' right now about as much as a drowning man needs a bucket of water. I forget... was it you or another commenter that said "Ford has cash and will emerge as the new"... I guess I imagined Ford's CEO sitting in front of Congress begging for billions of dollars. Well, since you say they have money, I guess you won't be upset if they don't get it. And guess what? If they don't, they're finished. It would be smarter right now (and always) to buy a Toyota with three wheels on it than a new domestic.

I am going to buy a new GM full size truck before year end with my double reward points. The best Christmas gift is one you like and pick out for yourself. I am not into 3 wheeled imports, but I actually saw one once.

So what. A car company based in the US. That really doesn't mean much when the company in question: (GM, Ford, Chrysler) does things like slash pension and retirement plans, shut US plants and reopen them in Mexico and Canada, rely less and less on US suppliers and start relying more on companies in China, Brazil, and India for parts - even major components like engines, transmissions, and electronics.

It also doesn't mean much to me that the CEOs of these companies get overpaid and squander it on things like private jets, vast exotic car collections and mansions. If you want to know where the profits go, it doesn't go to Johny Paycheck if that's what you're saying. It goes to corporate fat cats.

12:03 what it does mean is test driving all the new full size trucks and buying one. I look at utility, beds and hitches capability, handling, comfort warranty when I buy. When I write my check I look at what I am towing, not so much politics. Maybe I can talk about politics after I tow and launch my boat from my new full size pickup I'm buying. I was unimpressed with Tundra no matter what flag you are waving... the truck better perform well without a batch of compromises or less capability.

Ford wasn't begging for anything. Ford's CEO decided to REFUSE the loan guarantees because Ford doesn't need it now. Ford's sales have dropped LESS than all Japanese cars sold in the U.S. except Subaru, which sells very few anyway

(USA Today, December 10, 2008).

Ford did not refuse the loans. Ford's comments were that they weren't sure if they needed the loans because they have $19 Billion in cash left. But that's not saying much since they've lost over $24 Billion in less than two years. They aren't outright refusing such a loan. Admittedly they are in better shape than GM or Chrysler, but that doesn't mean much since the other two are finished if the bailout talks fail.

In regards to the comment about capacity and handling, to each his own. Frankly, to me the Tundra not only handles and drives better, but its every bit as capable as the F-150 it directly competes with. But lets do a direct comparison anyway:

Tundra:

Engine 1:

4.7L DOHC 32 Valve V8. 276hp, 313 lbs torque.

Engine 2:

5.7L DOHC 32 Valve V8. 381hp, 401 lbs torque.

Also comes with a choice of 5 or 6 speed transmission.

Ford F150:

Engine 1: 4.6L SOHC 16 valve V8. 248hp, 294 lbs torque.

Engine 2: 5.4L SOHC 24 valve V8. 300HP, 365 lbs torque.

Choice of a 4 speed transmission.

So a direct comparison actually shows that the Tundra has more HP, more torque, a wider selection of transmissions, a more advanced engine design, and greater towing capacity.

So if I personally wanted to haul less, I'd probably go with the F150. More, I'd go with a Tundra because it's actually a more powerful truck.

I went with a new Silverado and added some mild performance upgrades. Light to light, stock, the Tundra again stock is faster. But look at handling, comfort, ride, bed carrying, people carrying, warranty and I went GM again. I like fast cars light to light, but with a truck I like a mixture of features, utility with power with handling, not just power by itself.

With regard to comment 11:55, some further comparisons between the Tundra and F-150 might be in order:

1. Sales: The F-150 outsells the Tundra more than 7 to 1.

It has been the world's best selling vehicle for 30 YEARS.

2. Engine reliability: The Tundra engines have proven to possess numerous serious problems (sludging, uneven combustion temperatures, etc). The F-150 uses the same solid and reliable engines that have powered our company trucks to 250,000 miles without ANY problems.

3. Frame, brake, steering and suspension: Although Tundra copied some of Ford's excellent frame design in the new Tundra, it still falls far short of the rugged reliability of the F-150. The newer Tundra has made great improvements over the tinny, flimsy first generation disasters, but are still prone to premature brake, steering and suspension issues.

The tried and prove F-150 has none of these issues.

4. Warranty: Except for the Smart, Japanese companies offer the WORST warranties in the automotive business.

The reason? See points 2 and 3 above. It would cost Toyota a small fortune to match the domestic warranties of Ford, GM or Chrysler because they would lose too much in repair bills. Any time a car maker refuses to match competitor's warranties, it is for one reason, and one reason ONLY. They can't afford the cost of the additional repairs a longer warranty would entail.

More torque and horsepower don't mean a great deal if the truck is in the shop for repairs weekly after a few thousand miles. And if power is the issue, buy a Dodge Ram SRT-10. It has way more than any other pickup.

11:55 Thanks for the specs. These Ford fans are pretty funny. Toyota trucks are rated higher in reliability and quality; always have been. Not to mention the Tundra's capability of hauling and towing more than the F-150. And most importantly, not breaking down like Fords are known to do.

I often wonder why these Ford guys can't or don't accept that Toyota makes a better truck. I guess if they like them, that's what they'll buy. Common sense would dictate buying the higher quality, more powerful Tundra: better truck, better resale value, less breakdowns (which IS documented), and all of that from a company that isn't in financial ruin. Oh well. It takes all kinds I guess. I'll continue to reap the obvious benefits of driving a Toyota.

21:21 Great, now it's my turn to compare my new GM Silverado. Better load, people carrying, towing, ride, lower cost to own over 5 years on Edmunds, far better warranty and better handling. The handling I have found to be far better and the comfort is what sold me compared to the Tundra. I prefer the V8 engine and mileage is good as well.

I like Ford as well, and it seems you forget about the F-250. It's a great truck especially diesel as is the GM Duramax. They are higher priced but if you can afford them, have a family and tow, they are great.

21:21 so do you own a Tundra? That was the comparison, not a Camry or a Tacoma.

04:48 No, I don't own a Tundra. It doesn't take owning one to know that it's the better truck. Obviously, if I were in the market for a truck that size, that's what I'd buy because nobody else makes one nearly as good.

As far as my truck ownership goes, I've owned Ford's, Dodge's, and when I finally wised up, a couple of Toyota's; after which I realized my earlier mistakes in buying any other kind.

The Tacoma with the V-6 had just about the same towing capacity as the Dakota, and got literally almost twice the gas mileage.

I never towed with the Ford because I couldn't trust it to get down the road all by itself without breaking down once a week. They all saw off-road use, and anyone who has any off road experience at all, and has driven Toyota's versus anything else knows that Toyota's off road capabilities are the best; nothing else is even close.

So if I do buy a full size truck, common sense and research would dictate buying a Tundra.

"No, I don't own a Tundra. It doesn't take owning one to know that it's the better truck"

Gee, how logical. I don't own one, haven't driven one, and yet I can say that it's "The better truck". Typical of people who rely on Toyota ads for their vast field of automotive knowledge.

Buying a small Tacoma most likely indicates that the individual has no need for a full size truck. Or better yet why buy a full size truck unless you have the application for one.

Toyota Tundra is extremely limited as far as model line up and 1/2 ton. It's best to define applications and utility before locking into a limited offering. If I were mostly driving by myself and had small loads to carry and tow, the Tundra would be a candidate if the handling were equal to our domestic.

Other than that having no import available that accommodates our applications, it is not the best new truck to buy. Maybe the Tundra sales figures bear this out as well.

Comparing a small Tacoma V6 in the large truck category is disregarding the utility and function that prompts individuals to buy new larger trucks. If you are staying with a small truck forever, it seems of limited benefit to us that buy vehicles relating specifically to this review.