2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

20:52 so what new vehicles are you buying at all to stimulate the economy? Based on what I am reading Toyota truck sales, both Tacoma and Tundra, are way down, as are cars. Why not buy a new one be current and we can read some new on topic full size reviews. Apparently Ford F-150's sales are doing fine as they have for the number one spot for 27 years and Tundra is down. Or is this a small old Tacoma truck comment again.

I have had several cars that I could have kept forever and knock 2009 Toyotas on here... for whatever relevance that may have. On full size truck domain Tundra is not number one... face it. I have zero usage for a small truck so that includes Tacoma, small Rangers and the like. At least I have recent ownership on full sizes... maybe I can write about my new domestic full size truck success on a new Ferrari review and have others scratching their head on relevance.

21:21 Incorrect. The domestics have all been crap for over 30 years, and have never built anything comparable to a Toyota or Honda, which is why there is a market for imports in this country in the first place.

Their subpar automobiles are also the reason the imports have had such success in the U.S. and also why the imports have had better reviews for decades.

I've said this all before, but think about it; realize the obvious truth: GM and Ford cars cost less than Toyota's and Honda's... you guys are saying that they are better than the imports also... so if they really were better and STILL cost less, do you really think that Toyota and Honda would have grown to such proportions in the U.S.? The answer is obviously NO.

The fact is, people would rather pay a few thousand more for a Toyota and get a vehicle that will cost less to run, break down MUCH less, get more miles, last longer, and sell for more on trade in because of those facts.

I know it's difficult for some of you Big 3 fans to accept, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

22:52 Toyota just sells a lot of inexpensive low end economy vehicles, and not all domestics are inexpensive. Low end in my opinion are not necessary the best to own and enjoy. Honda and Toyota are just not as exceptional anymore. How many people own Land Cruisers and Tundras anyway vs. Corollas, Civics, Camry, Accords?

Maybe you have not bought many vehicles, but we have and have seen the complete opposite of mechanically reliability decline of imports vs. newest domestics. I try to narrow my new vehicle comments within a few years, and certainly am not an expert on every single make and model of an entire manufacturers line up, and there are probably few that are. However we have owned 2-3 vehicles new every 3-4 years since the mid 70's.

If in fact all domestics are complete crap as you indicate, then the past 2 quarters posted by Toyota should have shot up dramatically displacing current domestic sales. At any rate, if you have even compared new full size trucks, the domestics are far superior. I tested them and pricing was not the main factor; mainly features, utility, practical applications and far better warranty.

I prefer the best I can buy and afford, and the Tundra was not the best when we compared. And buying or talking about Tacomas that are far to incapable, underperforming on a full size truck review has absolutely zero applications. It's way too small. We can have a 100% functional non compromised utility full size truck and carry light loads as well as individuals in comfort in a new SUV. You can also lock everything up unless the small truck has a cap with the flimsy locks.

Its interesting to wonder why Toyota vehicles should actually cost half as much if the employees want to work for $14 hour. Thats a very low wage by the way.

22:52 That is exactly why I bought a new Silverado. Better cost to own over 5 years than a Tundra (Edmunds) better reliability, better warranty and better ride, better handling, more people carrying capacity, better towing, better load carrying.

I understand people are worried about the economy, have concerns with layoffs/ job loss, high fuel pricing and just getting around inexpensively. But the Prius 180,000 or so sold the past year has to be the ugliest vehicle I have seen. It remains to be seen how $5K to 9K for replacement batteries at some point in time may affect a cost conscious young family.

I feel fortunate to have owned some truly outstanding domestics; some I kept and some appreciated to the extent of taking the money.

I have bought many new domestics and imports lately at least and feel I have to my part to stimulate the economy.

As far as full size trucks if you have driven any lately... take a new one and really put it through its paces. I found that to be the best way. I have a company car besides my new truck and have applications to own one... I like handling, smooth ride, family capability and load and towing characteristics on lengthy drives. Maybe if you just ride to a store, hardly tow or carry loads you can be satisfied with something different. If the Tundra handles better, improves the warranty and maybe the supercharged version is at least a start to be more enjoyable to own one. At least I will examine them behind the wheel before I buy.

20:35 makes an excellent point. You need to drive vehicles from different manufacturers and buy the one with the most obvious advantages, such as a decent warranty, good ride and handling and the ability to perform the tasks that you need them to perform. That's why our company fleets are all Ford, Chevy or Dodge. We have to have reliable vehicles that can do the job. You won't be seeing any Tundras with our company name on them any time soon.

"It remains to be seen how $5K to 9K for replacement batteries at some point in time may affect a cost conscious young family"

The batteries ARE very expensive, but I think it is more like $2000-$3000. However I have been told that some Toyota dealerships are charging $2000 labor to replace them, so your figures aren't too far off if you meant to include labor.

Prius sales have really tanked and have dropped 48% in the past couple of months. That's more than Ford and GM sales have dropped. Part of that may well be due to articles regarding the extremely high cost of maintenance on the Prius.

I am basing my battery comments on both the Prius and the Volt even. What happens when a young family gets hit with high replacement battery costs down the road? I think the verbage economy means more than buying the car and putting gas in. It's total cost of ownership.

I have absorbed high import repair bills to the point of bitterness... it's utterly ridiculous.

Here's another source of tracking repairs... go to a very high volume junkyard and ask what late model cars are worth repairing with durable bodies, frames and drivetrains. My friend rents a shop buys and sells late models, both former wrecks and unwanted cars, and it's a good way to see premature deaths of vehicles. I even ask at the places like Jiffy Lube what are the best engine life vehicles they see based on mileages etc.

Test drive, ask questions from numerous sources besides getting so wrapped up in politics is my opinion on the buying brand new late models. Find repair centers that work on many different new models, not just a specific dealer that either wants repairs or another new car replacement from you. I can go import or domestic and I buy. I do not keep vehicles and then act like I know what is the best current ones.... do extensive homework and test drive them all. If a car dealer buys a brand new car for me that's different, but it has not happened yet.

04:50 Well, what I do know is that whatever wages the people at Toyota are making, they're producing far, far better cars than the higher paid employees at GM or Ford. I know people (whole families in fact, fathers and sons) that work at GM, and if you heard half of what I've been told about the quality of their assembly, you'd never consider buying another one. Guess that's why they fall apart so quickly and Toyota's last for many years.

My 1969 Camaro SS has lasted many years. And others I still see from time to time in our small town. My cousin still drives his Challenger RT he received as a college graduation present in the mid seventies. I had Toyotas that rusted out.

My favorite Toyota was my 1977 Celica GT. I liked the Mustang styling. They were not cheap to buy... yet when is the last time anyone has seen one lately? I would be interested to know of anyone still driving their Toyotas from over 30 years ago. I also had the same rust issues in my Datsun 280ZX even more so.

" But the Prius 180,000 or so sold the past year has to be the ugliest vehicle I have seen. It remains to be seen how $5K to 9K for replacement batteries at some point in time may affect a cost conscious young family."

First of all, I know a TON of people who think F-150's and Silverados are pretty ugly looking, so your first comment is a mere opinion.

Your second comment is inaccurate. I keep hearing all these "what about Prius batteries" comments from people who don't own or know much about these cars. We own a 2002 Prius, meaning it's now on its 7th year of reliable performance. It's also the first generation of the US Prius. The Prius actually came out in 1997 in Japan. The first Japanese model did have some problems where the battery wore out after a few years. This was because the battery was completely charged and discharged over and over versus the next model where the battery is only charged 40-60% then discharged also to around 40-60%. In doing so, this cycling puts very little stress on the battery. Thus with ours, the battery is expected to last as long as the car does. In fact, there are fleets of the older Prius in NYC used as taxi cabs with well over 300,000 miles with their original batteries. The current Prius also has a 150,000 mile warranty on the battery. That and the current generation's battery is half the price of the old one. On top of that, Toyota pays you $600 for the old battery.

Even if you had to replace the main battery, which so far very few have, the cost of replacement depends on what you do. Used units can be bought for $500-$800. The battery is bolted under the rear seat and can be replaced fairly easily. A moderate weekend mechanic could do so himself.

Look at it this way. There have been far, far more Cadillac Northstar engines that have needed replacements than Prius batteries.

All I know is that we've had zero problems with ours. Several of our neighbors and my Aunt have them too. Again - no problems.

In turn, I wonder if you sat with some Toyota family members-friends after working a long hard day on the assembly line with half the wages what stories you might hear as well. If you go to consumeraffairs.com you might find some illustrations on late model ownership from new buyers. Maybe that's why the new domestics are far better and have a far superior warranty. I know I am a lot happier I switched entirely to new domestics. No issues and running back for warranty, and quick out of warranty issues cropping up.

Those people working on Toyota assembly lines live in states that cost a lot less to live in than most of the GM and Ford factories. Additionally, the wages they pay them are significantly higher than the median wage for their respective areas. If you're living in Kentucky and getting paid over $20 an hour, that's pretty good living there. I know because I grew up in Tennessee and knew people who loved their jobs working at the Smyrna TN Nissan plant.

Lastly, once again, the warranty argument is moot. So what. Hyundai has a 100k warranty and have had it for years even when the cars they made were awful. I'd rather drive a car I know will last 200k+ with no problems versus having to take it to a shop and have it repaired frequently. Besides- it pays to see what's covered under that 100k warranty because if you read reviews from domestic vehicle owners here, half of them have problems that are for some reason not covered, leaving them with an unexpected repair bill on a car they thought was covered.

On the other hand, my Dad's Tundra got a crack in the exhaust manifold. No big deal, but Toyota replaced it free even though the truck was out of warranty and had 160,000 miles on it. Additionally, Toyota had an issue with older Tacomas where in severe salty or corrosive environments, the frame rails could rust. Though extremely rare, any truck found with this defect was bought back for double its value, no questions asked. That's for trucks that are over 10 years old. That is what you call standing behind your product and making customers happy. A 100k warranty doesn't mean anything if it isn't honored nor covers a product that's not well-made.

After having lunch with a friend who shared his anger and disgust after having two engine failures in two years in their Camry, I'd have to say Toyota wouldn't be my top choice even if they DID build good-looking and sporty vehicles (which they don't).

As for the Prius, it IS extremely expensive to repair and the batteries ARE outrageous. If you drive less than 10,000 miles a year you might get 5 years out of these cars, but I know people who have been faced with $3000+ repairs on these cars after three years, and of course Toyota has a very puny warranty, unlike any domestic, so they are stuck with the bills.

As for the comment about the cost of replacing the engine in a Cadillac, I don't know anyone who EVER HAS. We've never owned a Cadillac, but our Buick was sold at 277,000 miles with the original engine running flawlessly. You'll never see a Prius with THAT kind of mileage anywhere unless someone has replaced the electrics with a GM drive train.

The Tundra has been a disaster from day one. Everyone I know who bought a first generation Tundra has had several major issues with it. I don't know of one single person yet who has bought a SECOND Tundra. After getting burned once, everyone goes back to the solid F-150, Chevy Silverado or Dodge Ram.

At a recent Christmas party one friend who was a former Tundra owner showed up in shiny new Dodge Ram crew cab. He's tired of spending all his free time waiting on repairs on the Tundra.

I personally feel the Ford F Series currently is the best looking of all full size pickups. And I do not have one.

My most expensive domestic battery cost $92.00.

I drove the Cadillac and the Corvette on a track with GM Ride and Drive in the past. The Cadillac was a blast to drive as well. Boring rides lacking any decent styling exercise will never be parked in this household.

I also know someone with a Prius that cares zero about cars. Its just transportation for her and transportation only. I think that's a shame to not have any enthusiasm for what you own... just point and drive.

18:49 Well, regardless of whatever stories I might hear from Toyota employees, the fact is they are still building cars that embarrass the Big 3, as usual.

Ford, Chevy, and Dodge are so far behind in technology, and more importantly, philosophy, that it's a wonder that they didn't run out of customers and money long before now.

In 1993, (nearly 16 years ago) as a college student I owned a Toyota Tercel. It got around 38 to 42 miles per gallon and was beaten badly, by me. To this day, the Big 3 do not make a car that gets that kind of mileage or is even close to possessing the reliability and build quality that that car had (and has). Many people are still driving them. It cost me around $8000 dollars brand new.

Chevy's answer to that, 16 years later, is the Aveo, which still doesn't get even close to that kind of mileage with the same size engine. Far too little, and much too late.

Now, Chevy is trying to compare their piece of junk Cobalt to a Corolla or a Civic. As if it could even approach the well-earned status of either of those cars.