2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

When one commenter notes they know a "ton" of people that think a specific vehicle is ugly and several neighbors all drive the exact same car, I question the validity of those comments. Sure it's possible but unlikely. I have yet to ever see several neighbors ever with the exact same vehicles. I guess they live on "Prius Street" next to the Yellow Brick Road.

I prefer direct first hand ownership remarks on specific vehicles. Maybe we can hear from some that live on "Tundra street". I see very few Tundras each morning at our local home center. A variety of new Ford F Series, Silverados and Rams loading up, pulling trailers as well. But I will keep a driveway watch to see how many new Tundras are in town.

I drove cheap in college, and over the years moved up and up. The advantage is knowing more than just the mere bottom line up of vehicle manufacturers. I can drive cheap as well with few amenities, no room and bar jarring rides and wondering if the vehicle will start up each and every time at 250,000 miles. I prefer not to.

I drive long distances in short order with my newer vehicles. I do not like to have my wife and daughter driving high mileage vehicles at night and on rural roads to our home. There are better components and safety features on new vehicles, like Onstar, and cell phones are fine to a point. Add non question mark worn brakes, shaky steering components, tires, timing belts, hoses etc that can fail unless you want to replace every single component.

High mileage aged components is a crap shoot. Sometimes you have to go out at night and I prefer to not economize on safety, both vehicle and personal safety today. There's also more than the gas gauge; it is reliability.

I do not own a Hyundai, my friend owns their SUV and speaks highly of it. I cannot believe people dismiss the puny Toyota warranty so readily. Is it that the manufacturer knows something more? If the warranty is not necessary or ever used, what has the mfr. have to lose? I agree with warranties... if it stinks or is not honored or runs out quickly. I can simply walk out and buy elsewhere. If that dealer does not want to back it up, I leave again.

The best import or domestic that has all the elements I want and best service gets my sale. I also do not hesitate to rub it in when the new car salesperson calls wanting another new sale... I think they thought my wife was gullible or just automatic, and she no longer owns new imports. We probably paid a few light bills over the years at the local dealership with ones we bought over the years. I guess one family does not matter too much anymore. I test domestics and imports and always will, and my memory stays fresh with the latest service experiences.

Good point 07:55. I prefer first-hand experience myself, and mine has shown overwhelmingly that domestic vehicles are much more reliable. We've owned imports and domestics and the evidence was was clear enough that the best value was the domestic every time, whether it came from Ford, GM or Chrysler. We no longer buy imports, though I do test drive them before buying just to keep up with changes in them. So far I haven't been impressed.

Like you, I see a very minute number of Tundras on the streets. No one I know owns a newer one, and the ones that bought first generation models are sick of them and will trade for domestics. I think in the past 6 months I may have actually seen 2 new Tundras. I see that many new GM or Ford trucks every day.

I truly feel sorry for people who are conditioned to believe that Ford or GM makes a better truck than Toyota. You have my sympathies. Please, continue to buy Fords and Chevys. Even though they're inferior to any Toyota, somebody has to buy them to keep the economy in better shape. The rest of us can buy the better trucks and drive Tundra's and Tacoma's.

I felt sorry that I continued to believe that imports would continue to produce high reliability as in the past (small-mid size sedans). But since this is a full size truck segment, the domestics are far superior and much more capable. If you have a small truck, mostly empty, and certainly can never tow as much as the full size trucks, what's the comparison?

As far as the Tundra, the sales figures are so small to even be significant. The full size truck segment are not just A to B drivers, and just throw them the keys. I did more homework and test driving than ever (much more than small cars) as I have a very expensive investment to tow every weekend. I also value my comments of my family and take them along.

If I were single and had hardly any applications, I doubt I would own a truck, any truck. However we love boating and the beach. I would simply have a nice SUV and carry light loads from home centers. I still have a hitch and could even have a small trailer. But people buy full size trucks most likely to perform and have needs for them. What applications can you see that a Tacoma can perform on this full size review? 90% of the time my truck carries a family and tows... should I sell and have a 10% truck and have someone else tow for me? Or maybe my family can follow me in a small truck and take 2 vehicles. Better than bickering in something that is not enjoyable to ride in.

I need to stay with function, utility, smoother ride, better handling, better cost to own and far better driving and better warranty. I love test driving the latest. I will compare Tundra again and not just take one opinion as usual... my family has valuable input on buying decisions. If I hate driving what I am in there's no way I will ever buy a vehicle that is not as smooth, comfortable and handles better... more fun to drive. And I have not had any mechanical issues.... my wife did and got sick of imports.

I feel sorry for those that have such closed minds they do not look at everything available domestic/imports in 2009.

I always want the most in reliability, safety and overall value in a vehicle, be it truck or car. That's why I bought my wife a Fusion this past weekend.

08:08 - I've looked at new domestics. Still junk. Period. Not even worth the test drive. They don't have a lower cost of ownership, because it is a fact that they break down more.

Plenty of proof out there to back me up on that; studies showing warranty trips back to the garage on single owner 3-year old imports and domestics. Domestics break down more. Fact.

Everyone knows that Toyota and Honda have made the most fuel efficient vehicles in the world for years. Also unarguable fact.

I feel sorry for domestic fans who enjoy claiming that Fords, GM's, and Dodges are built as well, or are as reliable as a Toyota or a Honda. Simply not true.

"I've looked at new domestics. Still junk. Period. Not even worth the test drive. They don't have a lower cost of ownership, because it is a fact that they break down more"

Anyone who won't sit in a new domestic has no factual basis whatsoever to condemn them. A close look at ANY domestic and ANY import (even German) from the outside won't show any appreciable differences. If you haven't even SAT in a domestic, refrain from passing meaningless judgments. Any time we buy a car we not only SIT IN, but actually DRIVE both domestics and imports. We base our judgments on verifiable FACTS and DRIVING EXPERIENCE, not bad experience with a 20-year-old domestic with 200,000 miles. We drive the cars, compare fit and finish, feel, interior layout and quality, price and length of warranty, then we choose. We always choose domestics because they win out in our experience over any import in most, if not all categories.

Domestics most definitely DO have a lower cost of ownership. Not only is that clearly shown in many comparisons, but in real-world experience. The repair costs of 7 of our domestics are as follows:

1) 1990 Dodge (241,000 miles) $ 550.00

2) 1993 Ford Ranger $.00

3) 1996 Ford Mustang: $.00

4) 1998 Ford Explorer: $.00

5) 2001 Dodge Dakota: $.00

6) 2001 Pontiac (still owned, 72,000 miles) : $27.00

7) 2003 GMC (still owned, 65,000 miles) : $.00.

That TOTALS $ 577.00 for SEVEN VEHICLES over a span of 18 YEARS, one of which had over 240,000 miles on it.

In the decade prior to that, we spent more on EACH of our three imports than that in far less than 100,000 miles. That, too me, made a good case for driving domestics.

And as for as resale value, the much higher purchase price of an import virtually ALWAYS offsets the resale value. Run a comparison on an identically equipped Honda Civic and Ford Focus at three years of age and you'll find that, taking into account the initial purchase price, you are still TWO GRAND AHEAD with the Ford Focus. I know because I recently ran the figures for a friend of mine. He bought the Focus.

Well, the 2008 sales figures are in. GM sales dropped 31.2%. Ford sales dropped 32.3%. Honda sales dropped 34.7% and Toyota sales dropped 36.7%

Since the import boosters have constantly ranted that INCREASED sales by Toyota and Honda meant that domestics were "crap", we might now put the shoe on the other foot and ask "Since GM and Ford sales have held up BETTER than Toyota and Honda during this recession, does that not indicate that Toyota and Honda now build crap?" If NOT, why NOT, according to import fan reasoning?

I'd love to hear them (RATIONALLY) talk their way out of that dilemma, especially since sales of the awesome new Chevy Malibu (a direct competitor to Camry and Accord) went UP by a whopping 51.5% in 2008.

Wow! This debate is still going on?

Again, I must state that I think most of the comments here are way off topic.

I honestly don't understand why this has to turn into a debate about Imports vs. Domestics. I find it hard to understand why people are either dead set against imports, or dead set against domestic vehicles.

I also don't understand why so many people take it so personally, and I'll bet many of the people debating this issue switch sides depending on what make of vehicle they are currently driving.

All cars are basically "global" now, with parts being made all over the world, as well as assembly plants.

In our household we have a Jeep (U.S.A.), a Saab (Sweden), and a Lexus (Japan).

We like them all, and all have been very reliable.

If you have a make or model that you like and have had good luck with - Good for you! Enjoy it! Whether it be a domestic make or an import, and please don't take other's opinions so seriously.

I surely wish we could get back on topic now.

Sales don't matter if the company in question (GM) continues to lose massive amounts of money every quarter. Since 2007, GM has lost close to 63 BILLION dollars. That compared to Toyota's 1.7 Billion. It would seem to me that anyone reading those statistics would perhaps raise the suggestion that GM and Ford - who has also lost a ton of money - must not be doing something right.

I realize that anything Toyota does wrong (like the 20 engines produced for the Tundra with a faulty Camshaft) are going to get blown way out of proportion for all the pro-domestic crowd, seeking any possible flaw to "prove" how bad Toyota is, despite the fact that their company is built from reputation obtained from quality products. Just read any number of reviews of the vast quantity of dissatisfied reviewers of American cars and trucks here, and the difference between their experience and that of Toyota owners is overwhelming.

Case in point, the local Chevrolet dealer closed recently. They were offering free hot dogs and soda, so I strolled into the showroom. Sitting there was a brand-new Silverado. For starters, the gas door wasn't properly aligned. It was instead off by a good 1/4" and sank into the body. I could mentioned other flaws with this one truck, but overall, the quality, fit, and finish were almost embarrassing, but not surprising given that it's no different from the rest of the garbage they produce.

Frankly, I could care less where a vehicle is made. I've heard we will soon get trucks made in India. I will look at these too. It they're well-made, I might consider one. All I care about is if it's a good design, and to date, nothing GM or Ford makes is up to standards. But everything I've bought from Toyota does its job, gives me sometimes decades of reliable service, thus saving me money on repairs and maintenance.

My one hope is that GM, Ford, and Chrysler "get it", and the types of vehicles they produce don't fly, and if they are to survive, they are going to have to make better products. Plain and simple.

Where a vehicle is built is not as big a factor as where the parent company is located, as the vast amount of profits go to the home country of the manufacturing company, not the area in which the factory is located. That is especially the case with Toyota, which pays its workers far less than domestic companies and offers fewer benefits.

In addition, while import supporters rant about "bail outs" for U.S. auto makers, they neglect to look at the fact that our government has "bailed out" just ONE Toyota plant in in ONE state (Mississippi) to the tune of $225,000,000.

21:40 This is a full size truck review, and you mention Honda who does not even have a full size, and Toyota, meaning the Tundra to comment upon.

I love the ones who either do not own, plan to ever own ,most likely will not step up, or just comment upon passenger cars or the teeny trucks instead of full size.

I buy... not just daydream, and can comment directly more than a gas door alignment.

I like going to exotic car shows; maybe I could comment on paint color, but beyond that, I would not profess to have any level of expertise anything beyond that. Same as on here.

How stock reports are today has less of a bearing on what towing capacities, load carrying, room, handling, function etc have. If anyone else buys a new personal full size and walks into showrooms talking about Civics, Prius, Cobalts as well as stock reports, pensions etc it perplexes the imagination. I want the keys and drive them.

I am not all pro domestic... I do not like the Dodge Ram drivability whatsoever any more than Tundra. I also do not like 4WD and elevated models with reduced handling, bad bouncy rides as well. It no doubt pulls great, but it's not on my current wish list.

I really like the Dakota 2WD with the V8 and long wheel base ride and handling, but then dislike the Ram. The only way to tell this was to drive rather than looking in windows counting cupholders.

I picked on Chrysler a bit, but the relevance is the value of test drives.

I like Silverado most of all; best ride, handling, comfort on any of the full sizes I have personally driven lately. No doubt we will read about MPG or small trucks again, but unless I am missing something... I bought (meaning actually spent to buy a full size) for its capability and utility, not trying to make a small shoe fit the expectations on full size truck ownership.

It gets tiresome hearing someone lament about what they owned 20 years ago, and then labeling all present and future models. I may have hated a manual typewriter, but today I am on a wireless laptop. The current technology and safety advances like having air bags, better ride, warranty, features is why I am not driving an archaic beater around.

"Where a vehicle is built is not as big a factor as where the parent company is located, as the vast amount of profits go to the home country of the manufacturing company, not the area in which the factory is located."

A lot of good the money does for the Big three and its workers, considering Detroit, and much of the cities in the rust belt states of Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, and Indiana are crumbling into rubble. Ironic since if you look at where Toyota and Nissan build their cars in states like TN and GA, these states have some of the highest living standards in the country. If it is to believed that money being made by Ford and GM in the US is superior, then how come the states they're headquartered in fail to show a benefit from it?

10:50 are you seriously going to look at trucks made in India? I know look is just a visual meaning, not serious, not testing, not buying a large truck made by any manufacturer. I know looking at a Tacoma is fruitless by looking at it... it's very small and not a full size truck. It's useless on a full size truck review, and individuals that actually look, plus buy the new full sizes out there. Stimulating the economy vs. just complaining about it.