2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

"And to another commenter, NO, I WOULDN'T buy a Tundra even if it could walk on water, because with the U.S. auto industry in desperate need of help, NO WAY am I sending my American-earned money to a foreign industry (even if the product WAS better, which it definitely is NOT)."

Amen brother!!

Watch how everybody attacks this comment and we will be able to plainly see why the US economy is in so much trouble. They can drive their Tundra's to the poor house (assuming they can even make it there), which is where we are all going to be because of this utterly stupid "global economy" and "patriotism is for dumb rednecks" mentality going around today.

I know my parents and grandparents (WWII generation) did not think that way. They loved our country and did not take a single thing they had for granted, nor assume it would magically continue without them contributing to it, instead of constantly taking away from it - sending money to Japan and putting another nail in the coffin of US industry every time you buy a Toyota.

"This specific comment however is from an actual full size truck owner that tested them and bought another new GM Silverado"

My wife's family still owns the 1983 Silverado they bought new in '83. They disagree that Japanese trucks are better too.

Toyota makes better vehicles than Ford, Chevy or Dodge. No amount of talk will change that.

Citing specific negative comments about Toyota and citing a few positive ones about some domestic doesn't change it either.

All automakers have mechanical issues. Toyota has less of them, by far, than any of the domestics, and that is documented.

Also, saying that you don't believe the credibility of the source of that information doesn't change it either. In the auto industry, there are publications that are at the forefront and ARE the experts... Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. ALL of them rate Japanese vehicles as still the most reliable. If you don't believe it, it still doesn't change that fact. Not to mention the real world experience that backs it up.

As always, this comment will be followed by some other comment (impossible to prove) that says somebody had a faulty Toyota and a domestic that lasted forever. SO what. Getting back to the facts, Toyota's, along with Honda's, have been rated as the most reliable, highest quality vehicles on the road, as well as being rated as the vehicles most likely to get to and over 200,000 miles. Also a fact, from the experts.

Those of us NOT blinded by Big 3 advertising or in denial of the truth already know that. You might well HAVE had a Toyota die early and ALSO had a Ford that lasted to 200,000 miles. If so, that is a rare exception to the norm. Toyota still makes better vehicles, and, odds are good that if you buy one, it'll get a lot more miles than any domestic. That's just the way it is, because they're designed and built better.

So, keep talking about all of these 'bad' Toyota's. It's not going to change the fact that I, as well as practically every other Toyota owner I ever knew, were thrilled after making the switch from a crappy domestic. The Big 3 simply cannot compare, and at this point, are lucky to even be in business.

I'm actually glad to see that Ford at least is making some strides in a positive direction and building better cars. Maybe if they keep it up, they'll do what Toyota has been doing for decades: making automobiles that last and gaining a reputation for that. Until then, I'll obviously buy what I know is best; Toyota and Honda.

"Remember, however, that we live in a country that is rife with legends (Bigfoot, UFO's, Japanese cars being better) that are not amenable to logic or rational thinking. When the scientific method can't validate these myths, the "true believers" start chanting "Consumer Reports... High sales... My uncle Ichabod owns a 7,000,000 mile Tacoma...""

So..."Consumer Reports" and high sales serve as a response to Bigfoot and UFOs huh? :)

Actually I've spent a fair amount of "ink" pointing out that CR and other organizations have shown that the reliability of some models and years of American trucks are on a par with or better than any of their Japanese counterparts as far as reliability goes.

Some might be chanting, but I'm just sitting here typing quietly pondering patriotic purchasing vs. purchasing strictly on the merits of the product. I've done my fair share of both. I've owned both Japanese and American cars. I've owned many American made, German made, Japanese made, and Chinese made products. I prefer to buy American and often will pay more to do it -- as long as the USA made product is better. But I won't tell you what to do.

Maybe I'm just not enough of a "true believer" to shout along with either of the types of blind followers represented here on this thread.

"The playing rules change with each game."

Or perhaps with each person. You aren't only talking to one other person on this forum. To one, high Japanese sales is proof of their superiority. To another, high domestic sales is meaningless. It's only a double standard if the same person believes both.

The best selling beer in the world is Bud light. Never mind that it's pretty much watered-down tasteless swill. I can almost bet it's the same beer the guys making claims that their Fords and Chevys are better than Toyotas drink. This thread is hilarious. Sure... Fords are wayyyy better than Toyotas.

Guess what? The world knows the truth, knows what a better product is when they see it, and hence the reason Toyota is now the no.1 car maker with a reputation based on reliability and not planned obsolescence.

"Watch how everybody attacks this comment and we will be able to plainly see why the US economy is in so much trouble. They can drive their Tundra's to the poor house (assuming they can even make it there), which is where we are all going to be because of this utterly stupid "global economy" and "patriotism is for dumb rednecks" mentality going around today.

I know my parents and grandparents (WWII generation) did not think that way. They loved our country and did not take a single thing they had for granted, nor assume it would magically continue without them contributing to it, instead of constantly taking away from it - sending money to Japan and putting another nail in the coffin of US industry every time you buy a Toyota"

THANK GOD there is at least ONE other patriotic American out there!!! THANK YOU!!! I've been absolutely APPALLED at the "I don't care if the country goes bankrupt, I'm buying from FOREIGN COMPANIES" response from so many import owners. Even if the quality was better (it ISN'T) I'd still prefer to help my own fellow citizens by supporting American industry. We've started a "Buy American" campaign and are talking to import owners about trading up to a domestic. We've had quite a bit of success, especially with people trading Camrys for Fusions.

Ford's high ratings are hard to dismiss, even for die-hard anti-American industry folks.

I agree that if the best-selling beer in the world is swill, it proves that the best-selling brand isn't always the best. And how does that help your argument that Toyota must better because it sells more vehicles?

Personally, I prefer a nice, cold Dos Equiis or Negra Modelo for beer, or a rich merlot. I still say my Fords and Dodges have been better than any foreign car I've ever encountered. Sorry, your attempt at associating Fords with beer-swilling rednecks failed.

"THANK GOD there is at least ONE other patriotic American out there!!! THANK YOU!!! I've been absolutely APPALLED at the "I don't care if the country goes bankrupt, I'm buying from FOREIGN COMPANIES" response from so many import owners."

You deny that Toyota and Honda's reputation for quality was earned, ignore the fact that all of these corporations are very global, ignore the fact that many of your best loved models are made outside of the country with some percentage of USA made componentry, and you seem to deny any benefit to our country that foreign based companies have by building their vehicles here. These are all MITIGATING factors that make the decision much less of the patriotic slam-dunk affair that you imagine all solid Americans should make it.

I, like you, feel that the overall net affect is beneficial (to America) when someone buys American -- even taking the above factors into account. But I'm not going to declare that those who purchase foreign vehicles are unpatriotic, especially if they do so because the last several domestics they owned nearly bankrupted them (it does happen sometimes).

Thankfully, domestic manufacturers are improving their products enough so that this conflict may soon be as irrelevant as you claim it already is. But until that happens, I'd say to you that patriotism shouldn't require living in a state of denial. You deny or ignore all of the points above, then add to them by making the claim that virtually all consumer agencies that compile data are biased, wrong, brainwashed, and apparently un-American. And you add this primarily because you don't like the conclusions derived from their research -- not because you have any evidence of wrongdoing.

More than likely all of the vehicles I buy from here on WILL be domestic. But I will do it because I DO think there is a net benefit to America. I DO think the domestics are getting better. I AM concerned about what the failure of these companies would do to this country. So I WILL find those products made by American companies that are highly rated and serve whatever need I'm purchasing them for.

But I WON'T stand up on my soapbox and make claims about people I don't know; Whose lives are a complete mystery to me; Whose experiences are different from mine; And whose decisions are thus affected in such a way as to make them do something I won't. They may indeed be patriotic AND drive a Toyota... if for no other reason than that they lack your omniscience.

11:38 I've had a new GM Silverado and a Mercedes sharing the same driveway. There are better ways to express a comment than to make a domestic owner an uneducated good ole boy drinking Bud Light. I suspect the implication is that domestic full size pick up buyers in 2009 lack the capability to make rational decisions. I find the reverse. I have yet to find an equivalent pickup being offered regardless of price by the import manufacturers. I do not even drink beer. However having a minimal Toyota truck lineup,minimal warranty, less room, less towing capability, less load carrying, less comfort does sounds much like watered down beer.

12:18 - Which kinds of domestic vehicles to you 'patriotic' Americans buy? The Chevy Aveo's made in Korea or the Ford Fusions made in Mexico?? At least when it the engines blow up at 60,000 miles, you can park them in the yard and paint a flag on them or something as a lawn ornament. I think I'll stick to Toyota's and buy something that runs instead of something that makes me more 'patriotic'.

Having sold both Imported and Domestic trucks, I personally would prefer a Domestic truck over an Import if I were in the market for a full-size truck. I'm not so sure that I would go with a domestic mid-size pick-up however. That's just my personal opinion.

Having said that, I really think that this import vs. domestic debate is rather uncalled for, as people should simply buy what they like and what best serves their needs and budget. Furthermore people need to stop worrying about what their neighbors buy or where it is made. (Most of these trucks are built in America by Americans by the way.)

I also wonder if those "I only buy American, Patriots" who are calling import owners less than patriotic, have ever stopped to think where their microwave, DVD player, refrigerator, television set, cell phone, and virtually everything else in their homes were made...

This entire debate evokes memories of McCarthyism to me.

"10th Feb 2009, 05:54

I also wonder if those "I only buy American Patriots" who are calling import owners less than patriotic, have ever stopped to think where their microwave, DVD player, refrigerator, television set, cell phone, and virtually everything else in their homes were made..."

Show me one made in America and I'll buy it. Or do you want the remainder of American manufacturing to leave, too?

"I also wonder if those "I only buy American Patriots" who are calling import owners less than patriotic, have ever stopped to think where their microwave, DVD player, refrigerator, television set, cell phone, and virtually everything else in their homes were made..."

I'm one of those "Patriots" (and I never thought I'd hear fellow citizens actually ridicule that word) who buys from American companies. And YES, I DO think of where other items we purchase come from. Our microwave was made in Ohio (28 YEARS ago), my CD/DVD player was made in the U.S., my TV was made in the U.S., and though we have a few items that are made by foreign companies, it is only because we had no domestic source for them.

People who DON'T bother to research where their purchases come from are in great part responsible for our current economic woes. As for full-size trucks, thankfully no one other than domestic makers now build them anyway.

The argument that buying imports is unpatriotic is ridiculous. Guess what? America is no longer a manufacturing country. China has basically taken over that role. When was the last time you saw anything actually made in the USA? Go to Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or any other large retailer and flip over those products. They are ALL made in China. In fact, most of the appliances in my kitchen are American made... but they are all at least 20-25 years old. Anything new is basically cheap, stamped together plastic junk meant to be thrown away in 2-3 years.

I used to be a power tool salesman. Guess what happened? One by one all the American-made tools we sold shut their US plants and sent them overseas. The same has been occurring with the US auto industry for decades and will likely continue to do so.

So if you want to get angry, get angry at those US companies who decided to offshore their labor. It isn't the fault of Japanese or European countries. Those Japanese and European companies (Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, BMW) have all built plants in the US because they can actually build their cars more efficiently and cheaper than they can in their own countries. This just comes to show that the big Three have been running an inefficient machine for years, for if they can't even operate in their own home turf, then they have some severe management issues.

If you want to truly be patriotic, then realize that in order to succeed, it's going to take ingenuity and intelligence to do so. Go to college. Send your kids to college. Research current and future trends. Go for those things and make innovations.

Lastly, the economy we're in now wasn't created by people buying imports, but rather people buying overpriced housing and the banks who foolishly lent money to unqualified buyers. I suspect that this recession will be extremely severe, and would be surprised if GM, Ford, and especially Chrysler survive.

20:52 "better products are available and people are buying them"

Sure has never been any competition for full size domestics ever from Tundra. If you own a 1988 Tacoma, why spend so much time with owners of new full size trucks. I would highly recommend everyone test drive and compare the Tundra to the full size new domestics. If you need a small used truck, I am sure there is a recommendation for a 1988 Tacoma small one. Do not count on it to be equivalent however.

By the way, I would take any new truck for a gift and then promptly sell it for one that has the most applications, features, best warranty and capability. It would not be a Tundra, but I would sell it for a more functional better full size domestic with far superior capabilities and better warranty. People are buying them and few Tundras in comparison. But somehow it will drift to small truck comments ,maybe Prius and small scooters no doubt.