2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

7:54... it would be nice instead of saying "Toyota, Ford, GM, Dodge over and over to indicate the specific model instead that you have.

The 2009 Tundra made by Toyota is not the fuel leader... it's 13-17 MPG V8 4WD to Fords F 15-20 MPG and GM Silverado has a 21-22 MPG comparable engines. If you wanted a 2WD Tundra is still last... why anyone would want a 2WD V6 when mileage is not significantly different anyway?

I maintain anyone spending for a new full size truck; it's not the same economy only mode as someone driving in small cars and trucks, likely empty. I am not getting an adrenaline rush on saving 2 MPG either way when the trucks cost 40K plus with decent options.

In addition, what advanced body design are you referring as far as any specific 2009 Toyota model? I do not see any advanced styling exercises. Is it Prius, Corolla, Camry the truck designs? Not seeing it.

The warranty on Toyota and I can say the manufacturer as the import fan does truly does not reflect 2009 other models with 100,000 mile warranties. If it's so incredible, why not offer the warranty that the mfr. would never need to act upon based on your illustrations?

I think there are a lot of former import owners on here that have proof and first hand knowledge after buying initially and learning that way. I want a excellent warranty in 2009 standard... and expect great service and not getting excuses. I would expect people to be selling all their domestic full sizes lining for new Tundras or are they?

It would be nice to be model specific on a full size review. If it's not full size, say it's a 4 cylinder Tacoma direct experience for example, different class vehicle.

10:52 Domestics are OVER-engineered?? By 1955 standards I'm assuming? The engines in all and any brand new domestic vehicle have nowhere near the refinement of a Honda or a Toyota engine from 1988. It truly is funny that someone would think that GM does, or has ever, built an engine that is even in the same class as an engine in a Civic or Toyota's near perfect 22re engine. Those were the definition of reliability. GM, Ford, and Dodge have done nothing to compare to this kind of quality.

But please, domestic fans, keep buying them... it stimulates the economy when you guys buy them and then feed the auto parts stores money when they start to fall apart at 70,000 miles or less.

This site HAS influenced people's decisions on car purchases. I first found this site the day I was about to go out and take delivery of a Hyundai Tiburon. I ran across this site that day (back in 2006) and saw numerous comments from people who had bought Tiburons and had had trouble getting Hyundai to honor the warranty. I instantly scrapped my plans to buy a Tiburon and a year later bought a Ford Mustang instead.

I put great stock in the more sane and sensible comments I see, especially those who appear knowledgeable about cars and trucks and who have driven a variety of vehicles. I had a friend who was on the brink of buying a Camry or Accord and I showed him the comments on this site. I also showed him that the Ford Fusion is rated higher in predicted reliability. This weekend he made his decision. He took delivery of a new white Fusion SEL V-6. He has a much better car and saved nearly $5000 over the Accord (the Camry price was nearly the same). He is glad I showed him the comments (and related references) that helped him get a better car.

Looking at the comments on just this thread alone, my friend commented, "The domestic owners comments seem far more fact-based". I told him I agreed, and that after reading the comments on just this thread my choice in a full-sized truck could be nothing but a Silverado or F-150. Toyota is by no means junk, but to see every comment from import owners labeling ALL domestic vehicles as "junk" or "crap" goes a long way toward convincing a truly open minded individual to buy domestic.

"It truly is funny that someone would think that GM does, or has ever, built an engine that is even in the same class as an engine in a Civic or Toyota's near perfect 22re engine. Those were the definition of reliability. GM, Ford, and Dodge have done nothing to compare to this kind of quality."

Yes, it's also "truly funny" to think of one of these puny engines pulling a boat or hauling a load of concrete blocks. I imagine they'd last all of 2 miles.

"The warranty on Toyota and I can say the manufacturer as the import fan does truly does not reflect 2009 other models with 100,000 mile warranties."

By "other models", I assume you mean GM trucks because they are the only ones offering the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I checked Ford and Toyota. They both offer a 5yr/60,000 mile powertrain warranty and all three have the same 3yr/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.

Dodge, of course, has their lifetime limited warranty. That's a great deal on a nice truck. Their bumper-to-bumper is the same as the others'.

So... again, to clear things up, comparing powertrain warranties, Ford and Toyota have 5yr/60,000mile warranties; GM has their 5yr/100,000mile warranty; Dodge has an unlimited/lifetime warranty (non-transferable). ALL have a basic 3/36 bumper-to-bumper warranty.

The 22RE is not a good engine.

The blow head gaskets frequently and leak a lot of oil, frequently.

The number of 22REs I've seen blown up on the trails is 10x what I see of 4.0L Cherokees, Pathfinders, and any other domestic trail rig. Period.

Actually, I've never seen a domestic engine blow up on a trail during a hard, VERY hard run. Toyotas, yes. And frequently, too.

20:32 so I can pick just 3... 2009 stock domestic engines that indicates absolutely no technological advances since 1955? Hardly.

2009 Corvette 620 HP 0-60 under 4 seconds... 2009 Mustang Shelby 450 HP, and not forgetting Dodge the 2009 Challenger Hemi.

Wish I could add more... I would pick any of these 2009 domestics mated with 6 speed transmissions.

When you open your garage door and get inside your new 2009 vehicle, what enthusiasm can you share being you have the best vehicle? Other than turning the key and riding somewhere, I am disappointed both with lack of styling, the blandness, handling, spartan plain aspects of most Toyotas I am seeing. The design elements - are they the cupholders?

As far as warranty, I would now personally dump a vehicle as soon as the warranty expires... it will never happen to me again with our imports weak warranty expired rapidly. Indicating new domestics will fail in 70,000 miles I put it another way. If your import fails at 70,000 miles with manufacturing defect with absolutely no 100,000 mile warranty, what do you say? The answer is likely, do you take credit cards to repair my vehicle? I have all my repairs done at dealership on scheduled intervals, and have not had any of the so called catastrophic failures on my late model GM Silverados. I tack on miles rapidly and surpassed your figure with ease, with towing and they were very nice vehicles when sold. I am commenting on V8 gas models not small 4 cylinder pickups.

Appreciate any clarification on what specific model/year acquired, not what manufacturer only when commenting on the full size forum.

"I'll support the best car makers in the world: Ford and GM."

Some of you might be interested in checking out the rest of JDPower rankings. I posted some of the info from their site, but it got removed for some reason or hasn't been posted yet.

Toyota and Lexus are rated #3 and #2. Ford is also rated highly when you average their brands... not quite as high as Toyota but easily within shooting distance.

GM isn't doing as well. If you average their brands (including Buick) they still come out below average. So there's still room for improvement. Some of their vehicles and brands are clearly world class. Others have some improving to do.

Still, there is a 3 year delay before the data is considered by JD Power to be conclusive. It's very possible that today's new vehicles will do better.

Oops...got that wrong, I think. I meant that Toyota and Lexus were #4 and #3. Also my prior comment DID get posted elsewhere, heh, heh... my bad. :)

Congrats to Ford. Their stuff is starting to burnish the blue oval again.

10:25 Actually, they last longer than 2 miles. They actually last about 175,000 miles longer (at least) than any engine in a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.

The 22re may not have enough horsepower to haul a load of blocks, but it'll still be running for many years after a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge engine has died and is incapable of pulling it's own weight, because it resides in a junkyard.

21:39 Your friend does not have a better car. He has a Ford car, which have proven to be unreliable despite the promises of their advertising, which he apparently fell for.

Toyota and Honda cars have a proven track record for being the best of the best, which is why they are the best selling cars in the United States. Your 'friend' made a mistake, as did you for advising him to buy a Ford car. He will regret his decision, as most Ford owners do, usually soon rather than later.

"But please, domestic fans, keep buying them... it stimulates the economy when you guys buy them and then feed the auto parts stores money when they start to fall apart at 70,000 miles or less."

This is a great example of the kind of comments that encourage people to avoid Japanese vehicles. Every knowledgeable buyer knows that domestic vehicles do not "fall apart" at 70,000 miles. They are under warranty for 100,000 miles anyway. To see such baseless comments as the one cited above, with no data to support such ludicrous claims, instantly destroys the credibility of the import fan and has just the opposite influence on readers. It makes them realize that the import supporters have no real argument, which makes it obvious that the domestic is the better choice.

If you have never owned a full-sized truck or more than one domestic, there is absolutely no basis for any criticism of other vehicles. Many comments on here are from people like myself who have owned both imports and domestics and have real-world experience with new models. There are also numerous references to all sorts of evidence supporting the positions of domestic supporters. All this carries a credibility that baseless, unfounded comments only serves to reinforce.

Okay, okay, this is getting ridiculous!

To - 23rd Mar 2009, 22:19 - Your bias is clouding your reasoning!

I own one import and one domestic. My wife owns a Lexus.

Our imports are no better or no worse than our domestic.

Therefore our domestic is no better or no worse than our imports.

By the way our domestic (a Jeep) has over 140,000 on it and is still going strong.

My wife's Lexus despite changing the oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles needed an engine at 100,000 miles, many sensors have gone at astronomical costs to replace. Is it a bad car? No - it is a machine - machines break, no matter how well they may have been engineered.

Our other import is a Saab - Saabs are routinely bashed on this site for being unreliable. My Saab has been extremely reliable. In fact it has been a great car.

I've owned many imports and many domestics over the years. Some good, some bad. I don't think domestics are bad cars.

I don't think imports are bad cars.

To me this debate is not really about cars, it is about egos.

I think it is ridiculous!

"Every knowledgeable buyer knows that domestic vehicles do not "fall apart" at 70,000 miles. They are under warranty for 100,000 miles anyway."

As mentioned above, only GMs have a 5yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Ford has a similar warranty to Toyota: 5yr/60,000. Dodge has a lifetime/unlimited mile warranty that isn't transferable. All have a 3yr/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.

By the way, a 3yr/36,000 mile powertrain warranty DOES transfer to a buyer of a low miles used Chrysler product. I don't mean to suggest that they get NO warranty but the lifetime/unlimited warranty doesn't apply to used Chrysler products.

"Toyota and Honda cars have a proven track record for being the best of the best, which is why they are the best selling cars in the United States."

Cars? This is a full size truck review. Honda has absolutely zero full size trucks and are we on Civics, Corollas again?

I have 3 specific applications which indicated a new full size truck only (the topic of this review). I do not want a small car or a small truck, in fact have zero application for either. I have towing applications and need an open full size truck bed.

There could potentially have been a substitution for a large SUV class 3 hitch, preferably Hybrid, but certainly not the perpetual small 2.2 cars, 4 cylinders compact and small miniature trucks. It's an impossible application.

If you wish to recommend otherwise it would involve buying both a full size truck and a small vehicle with limited applications (to buy and maintain 2 vehicles, and insure both).

The focus on vehicles outside the review instead of full size trucks is not going to sway a purchase either. I have personally ridden as a passenger, but it does not instill confidence if you do not have the confidence to buy, own and comment on direct ownership.

These 2009 vehicles cost a lot of money today. Perhaps the actual owners could spend some time on here vs. passerbys or their passengers or third hand think so's. In the interim we are hearing about the 2.2 block as if it's a full size truck godsend.