2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

The 22RE is not made anymore. While it was one of Toyota's better motors (which is not saying much), the new generation of Toyota motors are pure unmitigated crap. I am sure I do not have to repeat all of the reasons for this that people have already mentioned (e.g., consumer affairs, etc.).

10:06 My comment isn't baseless at all. It's founded on the fact that, until I wised up, I used to buy only Big 3 vehicles. I would have been on here defending them too, no matter how much they broke down, it was still a good, old, American Chevy, and that would have been enough for me to justify my block-headed reasoning and neglect of the facts.

Then I bought a Toyota and had the experience of what it is to own a well built vehicle. Haven't bought a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge since, and most likely, I never will. I've exchanged enough money with them in my lifetime and gotten unreliable junk in return each time but one.

I am not biased at all. I will admit that my '95 Dodge Dakota was a good truck. Granted, it was nothing compared to my Toyota's. It was a typical Chrysler gas guzzling tank, but it was fairly reliable. That is the ONLY one of my domestics that wasn't a complete piece of junk.

My Ford Ranger was pure garbage. You couldn't give me another one.

Had a few Chevy's, all junk. Then had three consecutive Toyota's over a 15 year span and spent exactly $90 in repairs on all three. A starter in a Tacoma.

I spent THOUSANDS to keep the Big 3 junk running, as is common with most people that I know. You guys can type in whatever you want. Real world experience is enough to prove differently for me. Toyota is by FAR the better vehicle. I could not care less who is deterred from buying one because of my comments. If someone buys a GM because of something I said, then they have clearly not sought out the facts or done their research, and it will be their loss and misfortune to own one. Even if you miraculously get one that isn't scrap after 100,000 miles, it's still worth nothing on trade in. The Toyota will be.

And for good reason; they're built better, last longer, have more life left in them at that point, and are worth more because of it. Go ahead and buy a GM, Ford, or Dodge. It's your loss, whether you admit it or not.

Look - nobody who LOVES domestic cars - regardless of how bad or good they are - is going to convince those who LOVE Toyotas and Hondas that GM or Ford makes a better car. Likewise, Toyota owners will never convince Ford and GM lowers to buy Toyotas. It's a pointless debate. Just let it be.

"21:39 Your friend does not have a better car. He has a Ford car, which have proven to be unreliable despite the promises of their advertising, which he apparently fell for."

Again, it would be nice to see some supporting data for such a claim. The Fusion is rated 2 full levels above the Camry in predicted reliability and 1 full level above Accord. And no, my friend didn't fall for "advertising". He "fell for" good advice from a friend and tons of supporting documentation indicating the Fusion was the better vehicle. He also drove my 2006 Fusion and agreed it was better handling and had a more solid feel than the brand new 2009 Camry or Accord he had driven.

Selecting a vehicle requires more than reading a sales brochure. It requires checking out reviews, frequency of repair records, and talking to people who actually drive the vehicles. If saving $5000 over the price of a less reliable vehicle was a result of "advertising", then I need to check out more Ford ads.

Members of our family drive full size trucks both in their businesses and for personal use. One relative's 2001 F-150 quad-cab tows a heavy trailer on virtually every trip, and has amassed over 118,000 miles at this point with not a single problem. The other relative also does much towing and takes long trips as well. His 2000 Dodge Ram crew cab has just over 143,000 miles with no problems.

Since this review is about full-sized trucks (which the Tundra barely qualifies for) the comments and evidence presented by actual owners of full sized trucks carries far more weight than any "It's better because I say so" remarks from people who have never owned a full sized truck or new domestic vehicle of any kind.

When my friend read about the last 100 or so comments on this site his comment as he turned off the computer was "WOW!! I see what you are saying! The domestic owner's comments seem a lot more fact-based. Let's go look at some Fusions." The negative (and undocumented) comments did more to convince him to look at Ford than the pro-domestic comments did.

Oh, and I forgot to mention before, but he traded in a 1999 Camry. It had just over 119,000 miles and had been a pretty decent car. He had had several very minor issues only, so he was not a "push-over" in persuading him to look at the Fusion.

As I say, this site alone did 90% of the selling because he felt that no evidence was put forth to justify the claims of import owners while much personal testimony and tons of documentation backed up the claims of domestic owners. He is wild about his Fusion, and is very happy that I showed him this site and encouraged him to do some real research before making a serious mistake.

Why not own a Tundra if you are going to expect the recommendations to be heeded? Zero interest in Tacoma, no applications.

"24th Mar 2009, 21:56

I spent THOUSANDS to keep the Big 3 junk running, as is common with most people that I know. You guys can type in whatever you want. Real world experience is enough to prove differently for me. "

Funny how my real-world experience is so vastly different from yours. My family has bought used domestic vehicles since the 1970's, paying a few hundred dollars for them, and driving them with no problems past 200,000 miles. I can't imagine how you and your friends spent "thousands" on domestic vehicles, unless you all were driving a bunch of old hoopties that were trashed and you didn't know how to work on a car. That's your own fault.

"My Ford Ranger was pure garbage. You couldn't give me another one."

The Ranger has had the exact same predicted reliability rating as the Toyota Tacoma for years until recently. As of a few days ago the long-range reliability figures released by J.D. Powers and Associates elevated it to "Best in Class", beating out the Tacoma. Your old, used Ranger may have been beaten to death before you ever bought it. None of my 4 Rangers (all bought new) ever saw the inside of a repair shop. Comparing used vehicles with unknown pasts to new ones is not very accurate practice.

"When my friend read about the last 100 or so comments on this site his comment as he turned off the computer was "WOW!! I see what you are saying! The domestic owner's comments seem a lot more fact-based. Let's go look at some Fusions." The negative (and undocumented) comments did more to convince him to look at Ford than the pro-domestic comments did."

Good luck on that Fusion, which by the way as pointed out numerous times is based on a Mazda Platform with a crank made in India, with the car itself manufactured in Mexico. My Tacoma is way more American made than the Fusion.

Oh - and by the way, I have a co-worker with a 2 year old Fusion. The steering wheel is already disintegrating, the seats look like they are 10 years old, and the car has been in for repairs 3 times since I've worked here. Sounds pretty much like every Ford I've ever seen.

"Then had three consecutive Toyota's over a 15 year span and spent exactly $90 in repairs on all three". A starter in a Tacoma"...or is that supposed to be another name for a Tundra? Maybe on the wrong review.

Sounds like my friend with a 27 year old Corvette garaged show car with only 19,000 miles with the original tires still on the car. He's had truly amazingly low repairs too. The classic car insurance alone is nearly $300 a year. What truly amazes me is that you you had 3 vehicles changed the oil, fluids, filters, brakes, tires, wiper blades, etc. for 3 vehicles for only $90.00 for 15 years. That's remarkable maybe you have a free oil field in the back yard. It costs me $40 a year just to tag each of mine also. No mileage was ever indicated for the "Toyota" and somehow it's likely irrelevant to a full size truck prospect reading your repair illustration. Is it Tundra or is it "Toyota"... I have had German cars; it cost less to repair my VW than my Mercedes, or should I just say they are German cars. That's why I like specific make, specific model and year, and the other commenter has a good point, were all your domestics (Rangers) ever bought brand new?

When you also read just the mfr. such as "Toyota", Big 3, GM, Dodge, Ford" it is clearly evident it has not or never has been been a full size truck owners comments or it would be clearly identified by a specific full size model... it tends to distort a true full size ownership cost to acquire, if new, options and repair expenditures of this full size class vehicle. I tend to skip these general comments and ones with compact 4 cylinder cars on a full size review. I especially found one of the most recent posts on 3/25 very helpful with a domestic business owner that tows helpful when comparing to my full size new Silverado truck with their late model full sizes indicating model and year of vehicle. It was refreshing and certainly on topic.

"Oh - and by the way, I have a co-worker with a 2 year old Fusion. The steering wheel is already disintegrating, the seats look like they are 10 years old, and the car has been in for repairs 3 times since I've worked here. Sounds pretty much like every Ford I've ever seen."

I have a soon-to-be 4-year-old Fusion. The steering wheel is NOT disintegrating (just HOW can a STEERING WHEEL disintegrate??). The leather seats could easily pass for brand new. It has NEVER been in the shop. Sounds like every Ford I've ever owned.

10:18 Well, I've bought domestics new and used, and imports new and used, without knowing what their histories were. As is to be expected, the Toyota's were still flawless, even used, as well as new, and the domestics were junk, new OR used. I don't care what rating the Ranger gets, mine was junk. It's hard to abuse a SENSOR, no matter how you drive the truck, and I replaced about 3 of those, as well as a LOONNGG list of other parts. My Toyota's were flawless. Ford and Chevy fans can talk all they want here. Toyota's are the better vehicles. Period.

I work in a construction-related field. Yesterday I walked in and found a lot of the guys laughing their heads off. When I asked why, one of them stopped laughing long enough to say "Billy bought a new TOYOTA TUNDRA last week and it just got hauled off by a tow truck for repairs!!" They were laughing because these guys all drive full size Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks and KNOW full-sized trucks. To them buying a Tundra for heavy pulling or hauling would be like buying a Toyota Camry for rally driving.

I've yet to see a Tundra owner buy a SECOND Tundra. I think that says a lot. I'm not saying the Tundra is junk, but it has not proven itself as a work vehicle, and Toyota is still having some pretty bad reliability issues with all of their new models. The people I know who like their Tundras are people who use them for light duty grocery hauling, gardening or camping.

22:43 so out of the vast quantities of new and used domestic and/or imports you have owned... approx. how many were full size truck models? Not a passenger or third hand observation. I question that only as you can condemn/critique full size complete mfrs. in their entirety on here. As these models can cost up and over $40k - even $50k, and there are many currently owning or contemplating a full size purchase, how many have you bought used, new whatever?

If you never have, it might be better to say you have only owned small vehicles on different platforms. drivetrains etc. If you have only owned a small Tacoma, make the comment rather than sideskirt it as such.

I have owned only 2 small trucks; a 94 Splash that I bought for my older teen child from watching too much "Baywatch" and a 99 S-10 Extended both bought new.

The Splash was a toy with a short bed, and honestly would beat you to death, and the short bed was relatively useless. The wide tires and rims and the red paint scheme looked sharp at the time. We had no mechanical issues with it, and I can offer very few direct comments as I rarely drove it as my kid disappeared with it. The plan was to split the payment and I could do some light yard trips at the home centers. At any rate, I never liked that one much. Looks it got an A+ though.

I did really like the next new at the time Chevrolet S-10 extended cab long bed, but again it was a real compromise. It was carlike to drive, but severely limited. We have since upgraded to full sizes, what we should have owned from the beginning, and never looked back since.

We currently have a new GM Silverado full size. That is my point, be totally up front with what you own. If you are capable of condemning any full sizes, offer some first hand day to day actual observations. Saying I have Toyotas, had GM's, had Fords, had Dodges, let us know what full sizes you are discussing. I honestly doubt there have ever been any, and if you like your small pickup that's fine. I personally hated the Splash from day one, yet my teen (then) loved it.

Adding up all the personal thoughts by all readers on here has value on specific models under review, This happens to be a full size one. I just read a recent comment on seats... in all fairness I liked the Toyota Supras pump up lumbar seating that was offered late 80's 90's, and even liked some of the Lexus designed inspired seats at a current boat show on some pontoon models. I am not so sure how they will hold up with intense sun/salt exposure over time, but they were fine. But not owning or living with them as I mentioned earlier... real owners of specific models can enlighten.

I have an issue with those that base broad swept comments from some magazine they read, a third hand observation or they rode to a store as someones passenger. I have ridden in literally hundreds if not a thousand models, many from plain grocery getters to quite a few exotics. But as a passenger and that needs clarified. I am quite interested though to know out of the many vehicles mentioned how many of this commenters were or ever full size models. Again the actual topic of this review.

" (just HOW can a STEERING WHEEL disintegrate??) "

The leather wrapped steering wheel on my 1998 Sable "disintegrated," but I don't blame Ford for that. On many warm days, I would get Fried Chicken at take out, go to a park, listen to the radio, eat in the car, and not particularly pay attention to the fact I was getting the leather all greasy. A few years of that, and sure the steering wheel disintegrates.

My wife refused to drive the Sable because the steering wheel was all sticky even after cleaning. I don't think it was that bad and looking back on it I am kind of amazed at how well the steering wheel held up. But my wife was so repulsed she insisted I get a new car. So it all worked to my advantage after all.

22:43, please LIST your new domestics and detail their problems. I'd be interested in seeing the list. Also, please list the make, model and mileage of your used domestics as well.